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Remembering The Forgotten Women Of Joseph Smith: Almera Johnson
Tuesday, Apr 15, 2014, at 08:05 AM
Original Author(s): Winterbuzz
Topic: JOSEPH SMITH - POLYGAMY - SECTION 2   -Link To MC Article-

This is an ongoing series to remember the early women of Church history who are largely forgotten today. You can read the previous entries here.


Almera Johnson was born on Octber 12, 1812 in Westford in Chittenden County, Vermont to parents Ezekiel and Julia Hills Johnson. Her older sister Delcena Johnson Sherman was also a plural wife of Joseph Smith. Both were part of a large family and grew up with a very religious mother and an alcoholic father. [1]

Almera and her family gathered with the Saints in Kirtland, Ohio, then Missouri and eventually Macedonia, Illinois, approximately twenty miles east of Nauvoo. Almera’s brother, Benjamin, became close with Joseph Smith and was appointed the agent for church property in Macedonia.

On April 1, 1843, Joseph visited Macedonia and stayed at the Johnson home. Delcena Johnson, Almera and Benjamin’s older sister, had married Joseph ten months earlier and was living with another of Joseph’s wives, Louisa Beaman. As was common for these types of visits with Joseph, he took Benjamin for a long walk in the woods, the two sat down on a log and as Benjamin recalls, “[One morning Joseph said] ‘Come brother Bennie, let us have a walk’. [As we walked Joseph explained] that the Lord had revealed to him that plural….marriage was according to His law; [and] had commanded him to obey it…He had Come now to ask me for my Sister Almera – His words astonished me and almost took my breath – I Sat for a time amazed…[I could not] comprehend anything. I….Said: ‘Brother Joseph This is something I did not Expect…You know whether it is right. I do not. I want to do just as you tell me…But how…Can I teach my Sister what I mySelf do not understand.”

Joseph then promised Benjamin he would preach a sermon later that evening, saying it would relate to this doctrine in a way that only Benjamin would understand. That evening Joseph spoke on the parable of the talents, which in this case Benjamin understood to mean wives: To him who increased his talents, more talents would be given; but to him that had only one, the talent would be taken away (Matthew 25:15).

“To me there was a horror in the idea of speaking to my sister upon such a subject; the thought of which made me sick. I stood before her trembling, my knees shaking; Just…as I found powr to open my mouth it was filled…and the subject that had Seemed So dark, now apeared…most lucid & plain…. her heart was not yet won.”

Apparently resisting the idea of plural marriage at first, Joseph asked Benjamin to bring Almera to Nauvoo. “…my sister accompanied me to Nauvoo, where at my sister Delcena’s we soon met the Prophet with his brother Hyrum and William Clayton.”

Hyrum Smith pulled Benjamin aside and told Benjamin that Joseph was acting in God’s name. He then turned to Almera and said, “I know that Joseph was comanded to take more wives and he waited Untill an Angel with drawn Sword Stood before him and declared that if [he] longer delayed fulfilling that command he would Slay him…The Lord has revealed the principle of plural marriage to me and I know that it is true. I will have you for a sister, and you will be blest…. [Hyrum] came to me and said I need not be afraid. I had been fearing and doubting about the principle and so had he, but he now knew it was true. After this time I lived with the Prophet Joseph as his wife.”

Benjamin recalls the ceremony: “the Prophet with Louisa Beeman and my Sister Delcena had it agreeabley aranged with sister Almara and after a little instruction, She Stood by the Prophets Side & was Sealed to him as a wife by Brother Clayton. After which the Prophet asked me to take my Sister to ocupy Room No 10 in his Mansion Home dureing her Stay in the City.” Almera and Benjamin stayed in Nauvoo for three weeks, and then returned to Macedonia. [2]

Three weeks later, Joseph visited his new wife, Almera, in Macedonia. Benjamin Johnson made several statements about Almera and Jospeh’s marital bed, and the relationship is one of the more documented marriages with this type of information:
“[Joseph Smith] remained two days, lodging at my house with my sister as man and wife (and to my certain knowledge he occupied the same bed with her). This visit was on the 16th and 17th of May, 1843, returning to Nauvoo on the 18th. “ [3]

“[As] for my younger sister the Prophet made me the medium of his courtship; and I saw her married to him in the summer of 1843, and I further know that they roomed together as husband and wife at various times in my home at Macedonia, where he associated with other of his plural wives and various times as he had occasion.”

“The Prphet again Came and at my house occupied the Same Room & Bed with my Sister that the month previous he had occupied with the Daughter of the Late Bishop Partridge…” [5]

Almera also later said, “I lived with the prophet Joseph as his wife and he visited me at the home of my brother Benjamin F.” [6]

After Joseph Smith’s death, Almera married Reuben Barton who was widowed with three children. The marriage between Almera and Reuben produced five daughters. [7] Almera’s first daughter, Mary Ellen, was born in 1846 and died only two years later. Her fourth infant, Almera Melissa died before reaching one year of age. The death apparently affected Almera’s health for a time.

Reubun Barton, Almera’s husband “for time only.” 

Their third daughter, Lois, was mentally impaired. Almera apparently felt guilty and responsible for her child’s condition, “Almera wondered if it was punishment because she remaried.”

In 1860, Reuben became disillusioned with the LDS church, causing marital discord and Almera and Reuben separated. Almera traveled to Utah with her three remaining daughters in 1861, settling in Parowan, Utah. Her youngest child, Harriet died in the winter of 1862 at the age of eight.
Meanwhile, still in the east and at the forty-ninth year of his age, Reuben was for the second time without a wife and sadly this time also without his children. On October 20, 1867, Reuben married for the third time, this time to Maria J. Carothers, the youngest of a large family.

We don’t know much about Almera’s life in Utah, except that she cared tenderly for Lois, used herbal treatments for her illnesses, and had family close by, in whom she found comfort.
Almera would go three more decades in Utah where she would care for Lois, until they both passed away in the mid 1890’s. Lois passed away on September 2, 1893, the victim of dropsy. Lois was the last of the five daughters to pass away and we know Almera was alive to bury her. On March 4, 1896, and after many years of crippling arthritis, Almera passed away of a ‘paralytic stroke’ at age age eight-three. [8]




1. Todd Compton, Review of In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith,” pg. 289
2. ^ pg. 291-298
3. Joseph F. Smith Affidavit Books, 2:6-7, 1869, CHL MS 3423 fd 5; Jenson, Historical Record, 6:222.
4. Benjamin F. Johnson letter to Frank Feely, Dec 10, 1897, in the John M. Whitaker Papers, CHL. See also MS 5, bx 27, fd 7, CHL.
5. Dean R. Zimmerman, I Knew the Prophets, 44.; My Life’s Review. Independence, MO: Zion’s Printing and Publishing Co., 1947, 96
6. Almera W. Johnson, affidavit dated August 1, 1883, digitized holograph, MS 3423, CHL.[1]; “The Origin of Plural Marriage, Joseph F. Smith, Jr., Deseret News Press, page 70-71.
8. Todd Compton, Review of In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith,” pg. 304

See: http://www.feministmormonhousewives.o...
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The Term "Anti-Mormon"
Tuesday, Apr 15, 2014, at 08:00 AM
Original Author(s): Churock11
Topic: EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 24   -Link To MC Article-
Just read Bill McKeever's article, "Anti-Mormon: The Mormon N-Word". I really like the comparison, and it gets to the root of the polarizing nature of the term, just like accusing TBMs of being "cultists." Might be true in a sense, but the accusation doesn't make much progress.


This quote particularly stood out:
In my opinion, Mormons who lump those who challenge the truth claims of Mormonism with the persecutions of the past actually bring dishonor to the Mormon pioneers who truly suffered. Considering what some of the early Mormons went through, I am sure they would view with contempt a modern Mormon who whines about being "persecuted" simply because someone challenged their faith.
Another article that discusses the "anti-Mormon" effect is this one - "Games Mormon People Play" (See: , discussing how to bypass this "tuning out."

I've had to continually remind myself that TBMs and even doubting members can only take so much at a time until their fight-or-flight response sends them into prophet-warrior or mental shutdown. It's funny how some of the missionary tactics work just as well in persuading someone to look critically at the facts.
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Elder Oaks Speech On Religious Freedom
Monday, Apr 14, 2014, at 07:12 AM
Original Author(s): Stealth
Topic: DALLIN H. OAKS   -Link To MC Article-
This is a transcript of Elder Dallin H. Oaks' Speech Given at Chapman University School of Law:


Many of the great moral advances in Western society have been motivated by religious principles and moved through the public square by pulpit-preaching. The abolition of the slave trade in England and the Emancipation Proclamation in the United States are notable illustrations. These revolutionary steps were not motivated and moved by secular ethics or coalitions of persons who believed in moral relativism. They were driven primarily by individuals who had a clear vision of what was morally right and what was morally wrong. In our time, the Civil Rights movement was, of course, inspired and furthered by religious leaders.
What he doesn't say here is some of the most vigorous opposition to ending slavery and opposition to supporting civil rights also had a religious basis. I would also refer Elder Oaks to the 1964 letter sent to Governor George Romney of Michigan from Apostle Delbert Stapley who chastised Romney for his "most liberal" views on civil rights and called the legislation "vicious". Surely both men had differing but religiously motivating views on the subject.


Religion also strengthens our nation in the matter of honesty and integrity. . . .These standards and practices of honesty and integrity rest, ultimately, on our ideas of right and wrong, which, for most of us, are grounded in principles of religion and the teachings of religious leaders.
A lecture on honesty? Really!!!??? Has Elder Oaks' heard of the policy of "only faith promoting history"? The church has been dishonest with us from the beginning. He is not making a good case for religion if he is using an argument of honesty and integrity as a pillar. That is a weak pillar indeed!

Organized religion is surely on the decline. Last year's Pew Forum Study on Religion and Public Life found that the percentage of young adults affiliated with a particular religious faith is declining significantly.8 Scholars Robert Putnam and David Campbell have concluded that "the prospects for religious observance in the coming decades are substantially diminished."

Whatever the extent of formal religious affiliation, I believe that the tide of public opinion in favor of religion is receding. A writer for the Christian Science Monitor predicts that the coming century will be "very secular and religiously antagonistic," with intolerance of Christianity "ris[ing] to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes."
Karma much? Intolerance? Of course religion hasn't ever been intolerant has it Elder Oaks??? After all we wouldn't want to fall into a "tolerance trap" would we? Quote:
The prohibition against "an establishment of religion" was intended to separate churches and government, to forbid a national church of the kind found in Europe. In the interest of time I will say no more about the establishment of religion, but only concentrate on the First Amendment's direction that the United States shall have "no law [prohibiting] the free exercise [of religion]." For almost a century this guarantee of religious freedom has been understood as a limitation on state as well as federal power.
He doesn't want to talk about the establishment clause because it doesn't fit with his agenda to push for the use of government to enforce religious dogma or doctrine on the country. Gay Marriage is a good example of this. Also, you also won't hear him supporting the religious freedom and free exercise of it of religions that approave of same-sex marriage. It is only the religious freedom of those who agree with his doctrine that he supports.

Along with many others, I see a serious threat to the freedom of religion in the current assertion of a "civil right" of homosexuals to be free from religious preaching against their relationships.
Gay rights are human rights. When I last marched in a gay pride parade there was a preacher on the street standing up and condemning LGBT people with his megaphone!!!! Nobody is trying to stop preaching! Nobody is trying to muzzle him from saying that "fags will go to hell" or put him in jail for his religious belief or expression or speech or practice. Nobody is rounding up the Westboro Baptist Church members when they protest at funerals because their religion demands then to preach against gay people.

Not cool Elder Oaks! LGBT people are just saying that when it comes to civil society they should have the same rights as you and anyone else. Your speech is much like those who said "A Bible, a bible, we already have a bible" except you are saying "I already have my rights and there shall be no more".
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Elder Bednar Perpetuates A Falsehood About The Savior
Thursday, Apr 10, 2014, at 08:09 AM
Original Author(s): Everybody Wang Chung
Topic: DAVID A. BEDNAR   -Link To MC Article-
I’m a little disappointed Elder Bednar didn’t omit from the printed version of his general conference speech ( ... e?lang=eng) (the link to which is above), his declaration that revelation tells us that April 6 is “the actual and accurate date of the Savior’s birth”. When I went back and listened to the speech on Monday, before the printed version came out, I was disappointed that he’d said something like that in a prolific event like General Conference, when there has never been a “thus saith the Lord” revelation about April 6 being Jesus’ birthday.

When Elder Bednar made the April 6 remark, I wondered if perhaps it was an off-the-cuff comment, not part of his prepared words, made with good intentions in the spirit of his talk’s theme, and understandably steeped in his own upbringing in the Church where most of us regular members simply accepted April 6 as Christ’s birthday without questioning it. Elder Bednar isn’t much older than me, and he was a regular member for most of his life, so he obviously grew up with the April 6 notion, too. I wondered, when I heard the comment, whether Elder Bednar was unaware of some of the recent and not-so-recent BYU and Church scholarship indicating that April 6 is most likely not the date of Jesus’ birth. But, when I read the written version of the talk, which the speakers themselves approve after making any desired modifications, it’s pretty clear that Elder Bednar was prepared to back up (in his own view, at least) what he said about April 6. He included three citations to the sources upon which he relied to support his position – however untenable – that April 6 was the day Jesus was born. Here is what the final paragraph in Bednar’s written version says:

"Today is April 6. We know by revelation that today is the actual and accurate date of the Savior’s birth. April 6 also is the day on which The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized. (See D&C 20:1; Harold B. Lee, “Strengthen the Stakes of Zion,” Ensign, July 1973, 2; Spencer W. Kimball, “Remarks and Dedication of the Fayette, New York, Buildings,” Ensign, May 1980, 54; Discourses of President Gordon B. Hinckley, Volume 1: 1995–1999 [2005], 409.) On this special and sacred Sabbath day, I declare my witness that Jesus the Christ is our Redeemer. He lives and will cleanse, heal, guide, protect, and strengthen us. Of these things I joyfully testify in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, amen."

A brief recital of why Presidents Lee, Kimball, and Hinckley may have believed that April 6 was Christ’s birthday is in order. James E. Talmage (whom I greatly admire) was the first to propose that D&C 20:1 says (in a roundabout way) that Jesus was born on April 6. His position, which was printed in Jesus the Christ, became popular to the point where it simply a matter of fact for most of us normal members. I think, however, that the April 6 legend became cemented in the modern pop-culture Church because of something Pres. Lee mentioned in General Conference in April 1973 ( ... n?lang=eng):

"This is the annual conference of the Church. April 6, 1973, is a particularly significant date because it commemorates not only the anniversary of the organization of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in this dispensation, but also the anniversary of the birth of the Savior, our Lord and Master, Jesus Christ."

Obviously (for there is no other explanation I can extract), Pres. Lee based his position and remarks on Elder Talmage’s interpretation of D&C 20:1. People all over Utah were watching the Conference at home on T.V., and were reading it a month later all over the Church in their Ensigns. They’d just heard the prophet declare that April 6 was Christ’s birthday, and anything the prophet says (even opinion) and anything published in the Ensign is doctrine according to Saturday’s Warrior Mormon pop-culture.

Seven years later, Pres. Kimball accidentally gave the April 6 notion a shot of adrenaline in his remarks, shortly before he dedicated the restored Whitmer farm in Fayette, New York, where the Church was formally organized on April 6, 1830. That dedication was videotaped beforehand and then broadcast during the April 1980 General Conference. In his opening remarks of the dedication (knowing that the videotaping would be broadcast in Conference on April 6, 1980), President Kimball said ( ... s?lang=eng):

"My brothers and sisters, today we not only celebrate the Sesquicentennial of the organization of the Church, but also the greatest event in human history since the birth of Christ on this day 1,980 years ago. Today is Easter Sunday."

Obviously (for there is no other explanation I can see), Pres. Kimball also based his position and remarks on Elder Talmage’s interpretation of D&C 20:1, and probably also on what Pres. Lee had said seven years earlier. Again, people all over Utah and the U.S. were watching the Conference at home on T.V. or in their stake centers, and were reading it a month later all over the Church in their Ensigns. According to Jeffrey R. Chadwick’s article “Dating the Birth of Christ”, Pres. Kimball’s son and BYU Professor Edward C. Kimball told John W. Welch that he was unaware of his father ever making another comment on the date of Christ’s birth.

Pres. Hinckley, in the First Presidency Christmas Devotional in 1997, did not say that April 6 was Christ’s birthday, but did say “While we now know through revelation the time of the Savior’s birth, we observe the 25th of December with the rest of the Christian world.” Most likely, Pres. Hinckley had D&C 20:1 in mind, Talmage’s interpretation of which had long since become largely, but by no means totally, accepted in the Church. There are numerous BYU scholars who do not believe in the April 6 interpretation. Likewise, J. Reuben Clark and Bruce R. McConkie believed that December 5 B.C. or January 4 B.C. was the likely time of the Savior’s birth. And, with the exception of Lee, Kimball, and Hinckley – all of whom clearly based their opinioned comments on the long-held interpretation of D&C 20:1, no president of the Church ever commented on it, and that includes Joseph Smith. Of course, one of the benefits of the Joseph Smith Papers Project, which Presidents Lee, Kimball, and even Hinckley in 1997 did not have the benefit of, is that D&C 20:1 was added to that section years later by Church historian John Whitmer, kind of as a formal preface to the actual organizational revelation from Joseph Smith.

If you want to read some very interesting LDS research on the real date, I would recommend: ... 7daede.pdf
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New Church Policy - General Authorities Have No Answers To Difficult Questions
Thursday, Apr 10, 2014, at 07:15 AM
Original Author(s): Craig Paxton
Topic: GENERAL AUTHORITIES   -Link To MC Article-
The following letter from the secretary of the first presidency is making the rounds in the bloggernacle and I thought I'd share it here. In the letter, addressed to a member searching for answers to difficult questions, the member-searcher is told that the answers to his questions can not come from a GA but only from the Mormon god by employing Moroni's promise Ugggg. (really? That's all they've got? They're in bigger trouble than I thought)

Is this the new policy of the church to tell its member that church authorities have no answers to their difficult questions? That the members must merely ask god? What good are GA's (the guys who claim to talk with and for god) if they can't offer answers to these questions?

here's the letter and a copy of the letter: I would like to hear your thoughts on this...
Dear *********,

Thank you for your recent letter addressed to President Dieter F. Uchtdorf. He has asked that I respond in his behalf.

You are posing the wrong questions to the wrong people. Regardless of what any of the General Authorities might tell you in person or in writing, your answer to the questions you pose must come directly from God Himself to you through the Holy Ghost, which direction you are entitled to as you honor the covenants you have made. Only God, not man, can provide the assurance and sure knowledge you are seeking. Being a long-time member as indicated in your letter, you will understand that concept and will have experienced it.

As you prayerfully and honestly consider your questions using the formula outlined in Moroni 10:3-7, you will know the truth by the power of the Holy Ghost. That knowledge will then become an unshakable anchor to you.

It is understood that this is not the response you were looking for; however, please know it is the sincere prayer of the First Presidency that you will receive the spiritual guidance you are seeking.


Brook P. Hales
Secretary to the First Presidency
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Prof. Hamblin Launches A New Blog
Wednesday, Apr 9, 2014, at 07:46 AM
Original Author(s): Doctor Scratch
Topic: WILLIAM HAMBLIN   -Link To MC Article-
It was recently pointed out to me that Bill Hamblin has launched a new blog, called, "Enigmatic Mirror," on Patheos--a blog that will, according to Hamblin's "good friend" Daniel Peterson, "infuriate" people. I find this development very intriguing for a couple of reasons. First, Hamblin has already included repeated entries (i.e., the exact same text was posted twice) under the headings "Was Jesus a Priest?" and "DH 5: Tradition and Authorship." both of which deal with the ancient acceptability of plagiarism (??) and which attack the Documentary Hypothesis. The other reason this new blog is interesting is that it would seem to fly in the face of advice that was given to Hamblin some time back:
My department told me today in essence that both my editorial work with Interpreter, and publications with Interpreter will not be considered serious scholarship. They explicitly advised me to publish in other venues. (This has been, by the way, the consistent policy of both my department and college for a quarter of a century. I have consistently been told essentially the same thing about not publishing with FARMS by every administrator. The fact that I’ve published with FARMS in the past has directly led to delayed promotion and sub-cost of living pay raises.)
Has the policy changed? Or do the Powers That Be feel that there is a difference between posting blog entries to Mormon Interpreter versus posting them on Patheos?

Much of the blog at this point seems to be a retaliation against Bokovoy's new book. It's worth pointing out that Hamblin has been getting absolutely schooled in the "Comments" sections by some up-and-comer called "Colby."
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The Ever Changing And Deceitful Doctrine Of The Church
Wednesday, Apr 9, 2014, at 07:43 AM
Original Author(s): Bazooka
Topic: CHANGING DOCTRINE   -Link To MC Article-
This is D&C 20 verse 1:
1 The rise of the Church of Christ in these last days, being one thousand eight hundred and thirty years since the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh, it being regularly organized and established agreeable to the laws of our country, by the will and commandments of God, in the fourth month, and on the sixth day of the month which is called April-

This verse prompted Elder Bednar to proclaim at this recent General Conference:
May each of us do and become better through the Savior's Atonement. Today is April 6. We know by revelation that today is the actual and accurate date of the Savior's birth. April 6 also is the day on which The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized. (See D&C 20:1;

Yet back in 2010, Deseret News ran an article which, in part states:
Since the early 20th century, many Mormons have thought they knew the exact date of the first Christmas. Elder James E. Talmage, an apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, published a book in 1915 titled "Jesus the Christ," in which he wrote, "We believe that Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem of Judea, April 6, B.C. 1."

Elder Talmage didn't just randomly make up this date. He took it from Section 20 of the Doctrine and Covenants - a collection of revelations mostly through the Mormon founding prophet, Joseph Smith Jr. Since his book, Mormons - from church leaders to children - have accepted April 6 as the real date of Jesus' birth. But not every member of the LDS Church agreed with Elder Talmage's interpretation of Doctrine and Covenants 20.
The date of April 6 comes from the date that the LDS Church was originally organized in 1830. D&C 20 begins with this introductory verse: "The rise of The Church of Christ in these last days, being one thousand eight hundred and thirty years since the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the flesh, it (the church) being regularly organized and established agreeable to the laws of our country, by the will and commandments of God, in the fourth month, and on the sixth day of the month which is called April."

Steven C. Harper, a BYU assistant professor of church history and a volume editor of the Joseph Smith Papers, said in a phone interview that some people, including Elder Talmage, have read this verse as if it is the Lord speaking and revealing precisely that Christ was born 1,830 years before that day and that the revelation was given on April 6, 1830.

The recent discovery of the Book of Commandments and Revelations manuscript of D&C 20, however, showed that the verse was actually an introductory head note written by early church historian and scribe John Whitmer - something he did for many of the revelations, Harper said. "So those are separate from the texts that Joseph produces by revelation."

The manuscript, published as part of the Joseph Smith Papers, also shows that the revelation was given on April 10 - not April 6. So although it references the organization of the church a few days earlier, the revelation - which topically has nothing to do with the birth date of Christ - and its introductory verses "shouldn't be read as if it is a revelation of the birth date of Jesus Christ," Harper said. "The interpretation that has been most popular over time is very much subject to question; that's all I'm saying."

The Church has had this information for at least four years and has not amended the D&C section 20 to reflect that verse one is NOT part of the revelation Joseph received. That Bednar chose to quote John Whitmers' introductory head note and portray it as a Joseph Smith revelation is an embarrassment to him and the Church. That it remains portrayed as a revelation from Joseph Smith in the D&C shows the deceitful nature of how the Church treats doctrine.
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The Polynesian Cultural Center
Wednesday, Apr 9, 2014, at 07:30 AM
Original Author(s): Abelup
Topic: LAMANITES   -Link To MC Article-
This fact is well warranted at this time as the Mormon religion, (commonly known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) is planning their 50th reunion of the Polynesian Cultural Center in September of 2013. This pseudo religion is a sophisticated savoir-faire business organization, with non-transparent, self government of vast schema of corrupted commercial enterprises, and glimmers of promises for "The Chosen People"-The Polynesians a place in the Celestial Kingdom. I hold immense resentment, indignation and anger towards the Mormon Church in Laie and throughout the islands of Hawaii. The Mormon Church has excavated the Polynesian culture of its spiritual serenity and has no vested interest in the preservation and or the foundation of the Polynesian Cultural Center or the recently eliminated institution of Higher Education, Church College of Hawaii.

The Mormon religion's ambition in Hawaii is to harvest the Hawaiian and Polynesian populations of their money, land, and talent for their gain. This is my story!!!!!

What the Mormon Church owns in Hawaii and how much money their business enterprise rakes in under the disguise of "not for profit," is beyond one's imagination. The Mormon Church runs several for-profit real estate arms that own, develop, and manage malls, parking lots, office parks, residential buildings, and more. Hawaii Reserves, for example, owns or manages more than 7,000 acres on Oahu, where it maintains commercial and residential buildings, parks, water and sewage infrastructure, and two cemeteries. Take for example, the Polynesian Culture Center, a very lucrative business (PCC), a 42-acre tropical theme park on Oahu's north shore that hosts luaus, canoe rides, and tours through seven simulated Polynesian villages. General-admission adult tickets cost $49.95; VIP tickets cost up to $228.95. In 2010 PCC had net assets worth $70 million dollars and collected $23 million in ticket sales alone, as well as $36 million in tax-free donations. The PCC's president, meanwhile, received a salary of $296,000, while the workers make minimum wages. At the local level, PCC opened in 1963, began paying commercial property taxes in 1992, when the Land and Tax Appeal Court of Hawaii ruled that the theme park "is not for charitable purposes" and is, in fact, a "commercial enterprise and business undertaking." Nevertheless, the tourist destination remains exempt from federal taxes because PCC claims to be a "living museum" and an education-oriented charity that employs students who work at the center to pay their way through church-run Brigham Young University-Hawaii. In its 50 years of operation PCC has netted tax free money of approximately 1 billion dollars and that money does not remain in Laie or Hawaii for the betterment of Hawaiian and Polynesian culture or people. All money is wired directly to Salt Lake City daily.

Two years ago the Mormon Church completed an ambitious project: a megamall. Built for roughly $2 billion, the City Creek Center stands directly across the street from the church's iconic neo-Gothic temple in Salt Lake City. The mall includes a retractable glass roof, 5,000 underground parking spots, and nearly 100 stores and restaurants, ranging from Tiffany's to Forever 21. Walkways link the open-air emporium with the church's perfectly manicured headquarters on Temple Square. Macy's is a stone's throw from the offices of the church's president, Thomas S. Monson, whom Mormons believe to be a living prophet.

Watching a religious leader celebrate a mall may seem surreal, but City Creek reflects the spirit of business enterprise, similar to PCC in Hawaii that animates modern-day Mormonism-making money at the expense of others. The mall is part of a sprawling church-owned corporate empire that the Mormon leadership says is helping spread its message, increasing economic self-reliance, and building the Kingdom of God on earth. Deseret Management Corp. (DMC), an umbrella organization for many of the church's for-profit businesses. "We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually."

The Mormon business enterprise has only one purpose, fill church coffers.

It's perhaps unsurprising that Mormonism-a secretive pseudo-religion, also adopts the country's secular faith in money. What is remarkable is how varied the church's business interests are and that so little is known about its financial interests, even to its members who pay tith and other monthly offering. Although a former Mormon bishop received the Republican Party's presidential nomination, and despite a recent public-relations campaign aimed at combating the perception that it is "secretive," the LDS Church remains tight-lipped about its holdings. It offers little financial transparency even to its members, who are required to tithe 10 percent of their income to gain access to Mormon temples.

Mormons make up only 1.4 percent of the U.S. population, but the church's holdings are vast. First among its for-profit enterprises is DMC, which reaps estimated annual revenue of $1.2 billion from six subsidiaries, according to the business information and analysis firm. Those subsidiaries run a newspaper, 11 radio stations, a TV station, a publishing and Distribution Company, a digital media company, a hospitality business, and an insurance business with assets worth $3.3 billion.

AgReserves, another for-profit Mormon umbrella company, together with other church-run agricultural affiliates, reportedly owns about 1 million acres in the continental U.S., on which the church has farms, hunting preserves, orchards, and ranches (Jesus was not a hunter). These include the $1 billion, 290,000-acre Deseret Ranches in Florida, which, in addition to keeping 44,000 cows and 1,300 bulls, also has citrus, sod, and timber operations. Outside the U.S., AgReserves operates in Britain, Canada, Australia, Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil. Its Australian property, valued at $61 million in 1997, has estimated annual sales of $276 million, according to Dun & Bradstreet.

"There are religious groups that own radio stations, but they don't also own cattle ranches. There are religious groups that own retreats, but they don't also own insurance companies. Given their array of corporate interests, it would probably make more sense to refer to them as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Holdings Inc."

As a religious organization, the LDS Church enjoys several tax advantages. The church also doesn't pay taxes on donated funds and holdings. Mitt Romney and others at Bain Capital, the private equity firm he co-founded in 1984, gave the Mormon Church millions' worth of stock holdings obtained through Bain deals, according to Reuters. Between 1997 and 2009, these included $2 million in Burger King and $1 million in Domino's Pizza shares. Under U.S. law, churches can legally turn around and sell donated stock without paying capital-gains taxes, a clear advantage for both donor and receiver. The church also makes money through various investment vehicles, including a trust company and an investment fund called Ensign Peak Advisors, which employs managers who specialize in international equities, cash management, fixed income, quantitative investment, and emerging markets, according to profiles on LinkedIn. Public information on Ensign Peak is sparse. In 2006 one of the fund's vice presidents, Laurence R. Stay, told the Mormon-run Deseret News, "As we trade securities, all of the trading happens essentially with a handshake. . There's lots of protections around it, but billions of dollars change hands every day just based on the ethics of the group-that people know that they can trust each other."

According to U.S. law, religions have no obligation to open their books to the public, and the LDS Church officially stopped reporting any finances in the early 1960s. In 1997 an investigation by Time used cross-religious comparisons and internal information to estimate the church's total value at $30 billion. The magazine also produced an estimate that $5 billion worth of tithing flows into the church annually, and that it owned at least $6 billion in stocks and bonds.

LDS Inc. indirectly through Ensign Peak Adisors Inc. is invested in this wonderful company.

Proof of their investment.

The wonderful and marvelous company from Brazil LDS Inc. owns part of.

"Despite the numerous studies identifying its territories made public in the past 7 or 8 years, Fibria continues to infringe the territorial rights of the Quilombola communities located in the north of Espíritu Santo. The State (5)(and, unofficially, the company itself!) has already admitted the occupation, by Fibria, of state-owned lands (6) . Nonetheless, the legal actions by the company are still the main obstacle standing in the way of a proper and agile process towards the land ownership legalization procedures for Quilombola territories. The company has gone as far as supporting a racist campaign through its own allies, rural land-owners who have constituted a group called “Movimento Paz no Campo” (MPC – Rural Peace Movement), a sort of regional UDR (7) , to oppose the demarcation of Quilombola territories. In the meantime, rivers and streams vanished and submerged amidst eucalyptus plantations drive communities towards a serious water crisis that directly affects food safety, as admitted by the Councilfor Food Safety, and the Committee on Human Rights relative to Adequate Nutrition."

What would Jesus do?
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A Letter To Mormons: I Don't Need Your Sympathy.
Tuesday, Apr 8, 2014, at 11:02 AM
Original Author(s): Chelsey
Topic: LGBT - AND MORMONISM - SECTION 1   -Link To MC Article-
A note to all of those believing that being gay is a terrible burden (aka, the religion I was born into and raised in):

I don’t need your special sympathy. I'm not "of special concern".

“All should understand that persons (and their family members) struggling with the burden of same-sex attraction are in special need of the love and encouragement,” (Dallin H. Oaks, Ensign, Oct. 1995, 7–14)

My sexuality is not a burden, not should it be.

I am attracted to girls. I am not ashamed of it in the least.

The only reason it was a burden is because I was trained to believe that it was something to be ashamed of, hidden, and changed. I was trained to believe that acting on my attractions would demolish my future and revoke any chance of eternal happiness & salvation, not to mention the eternal happiness of my entire family (past, present, and future).

I was instilled with the fear of eternal damnation and misery if I were to even date someone of the same-sex. Time after time, the religion I was indoctrinated with since infancy, ensured a life of torment and sorrow by simply acting on my same-sex attraction. The possibility of living happily with someone I truly loved was inconceivable within the realm of Mormonism.

The religiously-backed, intolerable, cognitive red tape is what was a burden. Being brainwashed into believing that I was a heathen if ever I was to actually be myself, is what was a burden.

Being attracted to women? Not a burden.

Falling in love with a woman? Not a burden.

Getting married to a woman? Not a burden.

Being able to be myself? Not a burden.

Being raised Mormon? Burden.

Parents not accepting me? Burden.

Having to go to patriarchal church leaders and be told I had to be someone else in order to be happy? Burden.

Living with the threat of being kicked out of my college because of my sexuality? Burden.

Losing my family when coming out? Burden.

After years of struggling to recover form the militaristic, unaccepting environment I was raised in, I can finally say I am happy. I have deconstructed and rejected the destructive programming that I lived with for over 20 years.

Am I living a life of misery? Not at all.

Everyday, I am even more grateful that I am out, proud, and happy to be alive. I have found my own happiness.

Each day I wake up next to the love of my life. Each day I wake up with a smile on my face. I come home to my best friend, who I am absolutely in love with. We have a beautiful home, 2 adorable dogs, and successful careers.

You cannot tell me now that being gay is a burden. This is my life of happiness and I am finally starting to live it at the age of 23.

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Kinder, Gentler Apologetic: How Does That Work?
Monday, Apr 7, 2014, at 09:59 AM
Original Author(s): Sock Puppet
Topic: APOLOGISTS   -Link To MC Article-
I agree that personal attacks on critics, either full-blown ones or those that are NOMs, is a turn-off to the questioning TBM and any other reader. 'Metcalf is a butthead' does not do anything to save anyone's wavering faith.

What eludes me is the notion that kinder, gentler apologetics work any better. LDS apologists don't have any valid explanations. Their 'answers' don't hold water. Sure, the explanation that is not an attack at an individual like the one that Greg Smith penned about John Dehlin is not an immediate turnoff, but the apologists don't have anything close to satisfactory answers about JSJr's polyandry while he was publicly lying by denying that he had more than one wife--essentially, then, a public admission that he was an adulterer.

They don't have anything resembling an argument when it comes to the Book of Abraham, the Fax's, the Explanations or the KEP--unless you're Wade Englund and enraptured by Will Schryver's "tectonic plate shifting", "Mount Doom" cipher theory that apparently only Will and Wade fully understand.

I hear soft critics of the OMIDs proclaim their issue with OMIDs is the politics of personal destruction. I too think the OMIDs tactics distasteful. But unlike these soft critics, I think the OMIDs use such tactics because they know they're down to their ride, pal. Without the personal attacks, what are LDS apologists left with but a losing argument?

Should the OMIDs stop the personal attacks on critics, real and perceived? Sure, that would be the Christian thing to do. But then what has the LDS apologist left to offer the wavering, doubting Mormon, who already has the society, the fellowship of his ward and Mormon community? Nada, nothing.

At least with the full, frontal attack on the critic (rather than addressing the critical argument--a fail start), the OMID is not merely shoveling a big, wet, soft pile of BS that has no form or shape as logic or an argument. That disrespects the doubting Mormon just as much as the personal attack disrespects the critic.

Personal attacks are levied because that is all they LDS apologists have in their bag of tricks. It masks the fact that they have no others, that their 'arguments' pale in the fact of the critical arguments.

At the end of the day, I'm just wondering how defanging the LDS apologists from their only incisors, taking away from them the only tool at their disposal--the personal attack on the critic--is more effective than the soft, cushy BS that they'd have as their option if they give up the personal attacks?
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Holland - Desolation If You Don't Defend Mormonism
Monday, Apr 7, 2014, at 09:15 AM
Original Author(s): Ozpoof
Topic: JEFFREY R. HOLLAND   -Link To MC Article-
"desolate individuals, desolate families, desolate neighbourhoods and desolate nations."

What a depressing crock of crap.

He then goes on to intimate that some hate the Mormon prophets because they tell the truth, and lists some of the things the church leadership are called - "provincial, patriarchal, bigoted, unkind, outmoded and elderly". He forgot liar.

Then this POS goes on to claim that those outside Mormonism are opposing church leadership by demanding they prophecy lies, presumably lies such as equal rights for gays and women. He even attacks the "advocacy" of equality which he labels transgression against Christ who he sees as harsh and demanding. What would Jesus do? If thine eye offends the by looking at porn, pluck it out. If you jerk off, cut your hand off.

I don't know how this person can sleep at night. Important things like compassion for the poor and treating people with respect are ignored. Instead he claims that Jesus would not support gay happiness or women increasing their participation in his church despite Jesus never saying either thing.

He's starting to crack. He's venting his frustration in GenCon. Not long now Holland. Your CULT will die like others before it.

Desolation of your weak arguments if you try to defend an obvious fraud.

Desolation of your testimony if you ask an honest question.

Desolation of the cult, as young people ignore the old farts sitting on bloated prostrates, and google for real answers.

Desolation of the missions as the surge passes with no positive effect.

Desolation of the wards, as young men walk away from the cult.

Desolation of cult finances, as wealthy tithe payers leave.

Desolation of the Temples, as people awaken to their cult origins.

Desolation of the reputations and careers of Mormons, as the are held to account for their bigoted actions.
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"Careful With The Internet". Last Talk: "Get On LDS Dot Org."
Monday, Apr 7, 2014, at 09:10 AM
Original Author(s): Wowjustwow
Topic: EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 24   -Link To MC Article-
THIS. This is what is driving me bonkers that my family and friends can't see. The church has always been a bit back and forth on things, but NEVER have I seen it contradict it self so OFTEN the last few years. I was born and raised in all this, and I have never felt this confused.

Funny thing is, they say to stay off the 'bad sites' but what got me thinking to even look was the double talk they have been doing lately.

Search, Ponder, and Pray - Doubt your Doubts

Don't look at the Internet sites - Search all you want; we have the truth

Ask the Missionaries - But if you ask them stuff they don't like, they will rebuke you

We love all people - gay people are icky

We welcome all - as long as you are married and have lots of kids.

It was me, as a single mother, watching as many good people felt low because they were single or childless or gay. A true religion that is of love and God would not do this.

THAT is what got me to RFM - their OWN teachings. So they can blame the internet forever, and yell at the pulpit to obey, but it just threw me farther off today by hearing demands. I don't do well with people in power anyways, and they have always seemed gentle to me, but in my new thinking ways, I saw so much 'do what I say' in their eyes.

Maybe it was just me, but it frightened me at times. Plus, the second half of conference I could barely hear with the very aged ones. Hm.
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Struggling To Respond To Nosy Mormons
Monday, Apr 7, 2014, at 07:29 AM
Original Author(s): Nicole
Topic: EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26   -Link To MC Article-
I know it's April, and I'm a little late for a New Year's Resolution, but I have finally found a worthy cause. My new resolution is simple: Stop taking shit from Mormons.

Leaving the LDS Church has been quite the process, as I've mentioned before. Although it has been a psychological awakening, wonderful in many ways, it has come with a fair amount of challenges. And perhaps the greatest obstacle I'm currently overcoming is the sheer number of people who are trying their damnedest to save my soul.

They're everywhere, these people have come out of the woodwork to put their two cents in about my life, and they're rude, manipulating, and confused. People who have never had any jurisdiction over any aspect of my life now feel the necessity to assert themselves. They don't like people who break the mold. They want to squish my spirit, corrupt my new-found peace of mind, force me back into their circles of irrationality, and the kicker is that they do it "because they love me." Right.

So now, I'm going to name a number of things that REAL people have said to my face. Some of these things, nay, many of these things have been said by more than one person. and I'm not just talking about my parents.

On the subject of my education and career:

"Oh, that's great. But you know that you need to work in the home to raise children, too. When are you planning on devoting yourself to that? After you're done with school?"

On the subject of my "immodesty" (wearing shirts that are "tight" or show my shoulders, as well as shorts that go above the knee):

"Modest is hottest. You start wearing these things. It's a bad path. Bad things just happen to girls who don't wear modest clothing."

And finally, on the subject of my non-Mormon boyfriend:

"Don't you want to go to Heaven? You can't return to live with your Heavenly Father if you don't get married in the temple." "Why don't you just marry him now if you're planning on being with him??" (we've dated 6 months) "He's an awesome guy, but he's not good enough because he isn't Mormon! There's no possible way that he can be the best for you!" "Pray pray pray! I know you'll cry when you have to break up with him, but it will be better that way." "Use him for experience, like to find the qualities that you like in a person, but then find a Mormon guy who is temple worthy."

Such comments have been frequent and uninvited. So now, I'm going to practice with you the responses I should give. I'm going to try to be nice. I'm not going to try to offend anybody. But you know I will. Religious people take the mere existence of non-religious people as a direct offence.

When someone asks about me neglecting my responsibility to "multiply and replenish the earth," what I want to say is: "Do you honestly think that I'm going to school for 6 years to then turn around and give up the career I've dreamed of? If your God tells you that your primary function is to have babies, fine. But I believe that a person should NEVER have children just because a god told them to. They should want to have children, be financially ready, and decide that having children will make them happy. It's a personal choice, and it's okay to have children, or children and a career, or even just a career. If you think my duty is only in the home, you're wrong. If you think kids who were raised with a working mom turn out badly, you're wrong. If you're sexist and you believe that women are created for the sole purpose to bear your children, you're wrong. And how old do you think I am anyway? Last time I checked, I can have babies any time before I'm thirty at pretty low risk. SO THANK YOU for your interest in my reproductive `duties,' but no thanks."

When someone comments on my shorts:

"I do not get dressed for you. I don't get dressed to make you think a certain way, and I'm not responsible for the thoughts of men around me. In fact, you think that way all on your own. Perhaps you should stop looking for things to blame for the hypersexualized way you view women. Instead of teaching our girls to dress like asexual blobs to avoid `giving boys bad thoughts,' how about we teach the boys not to look at a girl in a primarily sexual way? Instead of asking a female victim of rape `why were you wearing that? You were asking for it.' Or `why were you walking alone after dark?' We should ask rapists `why the hell do you think you can rape women and then blame the victim because their shirt was tight or low cut?" I guess the thing that bothers me about people commenting on clothing is the thought process behind it. Bodies are beautiful, and sex is just one of many things that they can do. Stop making my bare thighs about sex, please."

And finally, my personal favorite, when someone comments on my boyfriend:

"You don't think I'm going to heaven. Do you think I'm going to hell, then? Who are you to make up consequences for my actions? I don't think you know exactly what happens after death, so stop trying to save my soul. The people who have actively discriminated against those outside their religion, those who have tried to break apart healthy relationships, friendships, or judged non-mormons, non-catholics, non-baptists, etc. Those are who I think are going to a hell, if there is one. If you want to chirp `love one another,' you better make it mean something other than, `love who is in your gospel and lives the way you think they should.' I believe in judging a person based on their qualities, and where they derive their goodness from. If you're only good because your gospel tells you to, you are not a good person. If you think that others are primarily bad because they don't practice the same faith as you (or any faith at all), then that simply reflects on your close-mindedness."

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General Conference: A Marketer's Perspective
Monday, Apr 7, 2014, at 07:03 AM
Original Author(s): Anonysocalexmo
Topic: GENERAL CONFERENCE   -Link To MC Article-
I've worked in advertising agencies for a couple decades. In my first gig as a copywriter, I had a really difficult client. They were resistant to third party advice, and they refused to acknowledge ANY recommendation that seemed remotely like criticism.

The core of their issue - they had a bad product that no one wanted to buy. And they refused to accept the counsel of paid professionals whom they had hired to help them.

So instead of facing their problems head on, they paid us to brainstorm "distraction" tactics - marketing maneuvers that attempted to steer consumers attention away from the "trouble spots" in hopes that they would buy their product.

Of course we knew it wouldn't work. And so we fired this particular client and ended the relationship.

My mentor at the time summed up the experience like this: "Imagine you're making a sundae. You can put all the sprinkles on it that you want - chocolate sauce, sprinkles, cookie bits, mini cheesecakes. But if the ice cream is bad, all you're left with is a shitty sundae. And we're not in the business of selling shit."

I'm looking at my Facebook feed now. There are dozens of professionally produced "Pinterest quotes" from general authorities. These things did not pop up spontaneously. These quotes were given to designers in advance of General Conference, produced, sent through multiple rounds of revisions, and set on a timer to automatically publish around the same time the talk was given.

But look at these quotes. They don't dive into the meaning of life. They won't help anyone live. It's "sprinkles." Bullshit you can share on your Facebook and Pinterest page, but won't help you get through the next day of your life.

To fit in to modern society, the church has shunned most of it's core - the true inquisitive American spirit that lead a young boy to the woods to pray if God really existed. The innovative, experimental approach that lead to some admittedly weird shit - polygamy and the endowment - but was probably the most open-minded and refreshing religious conversation to happen on American soil to date.

And now to distract people from the core of Mormonism and make themselves seem relevant, they publish "sprinkles" this ( , this ( and this (

This is not a sustainable marketing strategy. You won't win the war with sprinkles gentlemen. And people will only buy shitty sundaes for so long until they realize they've been wasting their time and money on shit.
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Dallin Hoax's Talk - He Lies Or Spews Garbage In Almost Every Sentence
Thursday, Apr 3, 2014, at 09:06 AM
Original Author(s): Ozpoof
Topic: DALLIN H. OAKS   -Link To MC Article-

Also a discussion of this load of crap on the Mormon Expositor podcast

This lawyer KNOWS a lot of what he is saying is not true. It's a ridiculous attempt to brainwash those kids. Hopefully most will see through it. Science is continually proving religion false. The fact the LDS CULT has to change its fucking scripture to avoid looking like idiots proves they have capitulated to scientific fact under the undeniable truth that such incredible tools as DNA testing has provided.

Hoax attacks atheists by claiming only God can provide humans with a morality needed to initiate and enforce laws that protect the innocent. This of course is a lie. He neglects to acknowledge that it is religion - i.e men claiming to speak for God - that allows the enforcement of laws that abuse and attack the innocent.

He attacks moral relativism, then he as a bloody LAWYER claiming to be an Apostle who communicates directly with Christ stands there and LIES for the Lord. Moral relativism does not mean open slather. It doesn't mean people are able to say and do anything to gain. RELIGION however does allow people to tell themselves that it's OK to deceive if lies keep people within religion.

This POS is dangerous. He's not just standing there telling lies to ensure the revenue stream of the CULT, he's there talking to a few gay kids thinking they are damaged and are in the depths of self loathing and despair and who believe they are pretty much Sons or daughters of Perdition anyway, so who cares what they do right? He's there making sure kids with same sex attraction can't ever openly meet or connect so they have to trawl parks for anonymous and dangerous sex at night. He's there making kids with NATURAL sexual desires of all persuasions feel evil because they masturbate.

What he ignores, conveniently, is the way the LDS CULT has chosen to pretty much stay out of the bedrooms of married heterosexuals. The CULT no longer states that oral sex between married partners is evil. They don't dictate to married people whether they should use birth control. No. Once people are married and pumping out just enough kids so they don't start demanding aid from the CULT, they are left alone. That wasn't always so. How's that for moral relativism Hoax?

The bloody CULT is always changing. They are the ultimate moral relativists comparing themselves to "The World", except they are not and have never remained a stable moral rock. They move with the world, only 60 years behind. They are relatively the same moral distance from the world as they have always been - way behind the empathy and compassion of the secular world, or completely immoral and deluded into believing anything a sex-addicted, known liar and sociopath says is God's law.

Mormon morals allow for blatant lies, deception by omission, misuse of funds donated for good works, talking gay kids into suicide, making people with ordinary human desires and behaviours feel like a shitting demon etc etc.
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Current Issue Of Ensign: Someone Sold House To Go To Temple
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2014, at 07:15 AM
Original Author(s): Apawst8
The current (April 2014) issue of the Ensign has a story that is shocking to me, but was merely presented as evidence of faith.

The article is The Philippines: Spritual Strength upon the Isles of the Sea (I have no idea the page number, because I read it on my Kindle).

The article talks about the history of the LDS church in the Philippines. They built a temple in Manila in 1984. Because the Philippines is a collection of islands, and is a third world country, it's difficult for those who don't live near Manila to go to the Temple. So the article talks about Bernardo and Leonides Obedoza of General Santos, a city 1600 km from Manila, according to Google Maps.

"Like the merchant man who went and sold all he had to buy one pearl of great price, this coupled decided to sell their house to pay for the trip so that they and their children could be sealed as an eternal family." While they worried about what they would do, "it was worth every sacrifice they had made, for in the temple, they found joy incomparable--their priceless pearl."

"And true to Bernardo's words, the Lord did provide. On their return from Manila, kind acquaintances gave them places to stay. Their [7] children completed their schooling, and the family eventually acquired their own home in a new location."

Just a shocking story to me. They were homeless and bounced around from house to house until "eventually" (it doesn't say how long it took) they got a new house. Sounds like pretty poor parenting to me.

Even if I was still TBM, selling your house and becoming homeless just to get to the Temple seems pretty damn stupid.

As others have stated already, it's yet another guilt inducing propaganda tactic.

It will make those LDS members who have already done far too much and paid far too much feel they are not really doing enough by comparison.

JW cult leaders printed in their publications prior to the failed 1975 end of the world fraud prediction that some JW members were selling houses and business ahead of 1975 to spend the last days doing missionary work.

"What a fine way to spend the remaining days in the service of God", so the JW cult BS went!

Nothing happened, the world didn't end and no one got a refund from the cult leaders and not even any thanks but were instead blamed for reading too much into things etc.

When will we here of LDS apostles giving up homes, cars and Stipends to pay for poor LDS members to have access to so called life saving Temples?
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I'm So Grateful My Own Children Aren't Living Under The Pressure Of Serving A Mission
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2014, at 07:11 AM
Original Author(s): Nessid
Topic: MISSIONARIES - SECTION 6   -Link To MC Article-
I served my mission in Sweden in the early nineties. I was 24 when I decided to go, and had already served in the Army Reserves and had done a deployment to Desert Storm, so I believed nothing would be harder than that.

The two months in the MTC were the most spiritual ones of my life. If I was ever truly converted it was there. Looking back now I realize how much we were being prepared as sales people more than anything else, but I that time I really did believe I was doing the Lord's work, and I was so excited about it.

Sweden, of course, was a whole other story. My first companion in Stockholm was a devout, energetic, and outgoing sister from Idaho. The "outgoing" part is the area I had the hardest time with. I am very much an introvert, and contacting people on public transportation and tracting door-to-door almost instantly became mortifying to me. I believed at the time that it was my own fault, that I wasn't spiritually in tune enough, and that I should enjoy sharing the gospel with complete strangers. The guilt set in early. It was also the dead of winter and very dark in Sweden, I was homesick like I had never been in the military, and my companion was in the last two months of her mission. Depression was added to the guilt pretty quickly. It was during those first two months in Stockholm I participated in the only teaching-to-baptism experience I could claim from my mission.

After my trainer left, I was companions with a sister from Finland. She didn't speak English, so our only communication was through my still-limited Swedish. That was difficult in a completely different way from my previous comp, but fortunately we were only together two months.

I was then transferred, to one of the most beautiful areas in southern Sweden. It was spring, and it was glorious. There was only me and my comp and two elders in our area. The senior elder was on his last area, and definitely didn't feel like working hard, so we played a lot. That was absolutely the best time of my mission, and depression was never a problem.

After two months in Swedish heaven, I was sent to a city I would remain in for six months. This city had an actual ward, small but functioning. The work of teaching and converting was almost non-existant though, but we still did a lot of public contacting and tracting which I continued to hate with a passion. I had the added responsibility of being the senior companion at that point, and was rudely awakened to how much numbers meant to the church. I'll admit I started fudging them, to appear we were making more progress than we were. More guilt. To make things worse, Jeffery Holland was now in our area presidency, and we were subjected to a few conferences with him. The man was not kind, especially to young missionaries who apparently weren't meeting the numbers goal the church had set. Of course this was all our fault for not working hard enough in the field and on our own personal spirituality.

After the first couple of months in that area, I started really contemplating hurting myself. I would fantasize about "accidentally" pouring boiling water on my leg/foot, so I could go home with a good excuse for leaving my mission early. I had no idea how depressed I really was, having never been depressed before my mission, and I really believed these thoughts of hurting myself were a reasonable way of dealing with what I was going through. Fortunately I had a very perceptive companion who realized I was in serious trouble, and she forced me to meet with the mission president to talk it out. He was kind, and for a while I felt better.

After a couple more months though, I could no longer get out of bed on a regular basis, and I cared about nothing at that point. Suicidal thoughts were taking hold by that time, and it was again very dark and cold in Sweden. I was in a new area, and my companion and the elders there realized quickly I was in pretty bad shape. I'll be forever grateful to them. They got me back to the president, who immediately sent me to a Swedish psych. He evaluated me, and told my president that I needed to return home and get treatment for my mental health. I ended up leaving Sweden almost a year after I first got there, and four months before my mission should have ended.

The guilt I felt for leaving my mission early, without a good "physical" reason, completely swamped any relief I felt upon returning home. My family and friends were kind and understanding, but having remembered before my mission what kind of whispering went on about missionaries who returned home early, I believed they were all doubting the depression that was the true cause of my "failure". We had a new bishop in our ward, a very holier-than-thou type, who asked me several times in my exit interview if I had really been sent home for sexual indiscretions, even though he had the paperwork from the doctor and my letter of honorable release right in front of him. I was sure sexual indiscretion is what everybody else was thinking as well. I became inactive after that, not able to deal with the guilt. I also went on anti depressants and was under the care of a doctor for a year, all on my parent's dime.

I met my future husband soon after that, and we were married six months later in a civil ceremony. About three years later I had returned to activity enough to be sealed to him and our first child in the temple, and we remained active, believing members until about six years ago.

There is a lot I regret about my mission now, but I'll never regret living in Sweden and the people I was able to meet there. I still get homesick for it sometimes. I'm so grateful my own children aren't living under the pressure of serving a mission.
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Why I Hate David O. Mckay
Tuesday, Apr 1, 2014, at 10:41 AM
Original Author(s): Cheryl
Topic: DAVID O. MCKAY   -Link To MC Article-
In 1953 there was a major law enforcement effort to rescue women and children from polygamy in Utah plyg cults and families. It was called "Operation Seagull," and included grand juries, massive numbers of investigators, and expectations of court cases.

My family was hiding out three to four plyg wives and their children from two different groups during that time.

Officers in black cars followed our car at times and someone monitored our telephone.

There were some arrests, trials, and jail time. That with the newspaper and magazine coverage was deeply embarrassing to church leaders including David O.

So he negotiated with authorities to put a stop to Operation Seagull. His compromise was to add a question to the TR recommend interrogations. It's the one about associating with apostates. Everyone understood that if they said yes to this question it meant they were polygamists or that they attended plyg services or sympathized with fundamentalist Mormons. David O. promised to ex all of these polygamous group and family leaders and claimed this would eliminate the need for law enforcement participation as no one would risk excommunication.

I think David O. knew that only a handful of plygs would admit to their sympathies. His only goal was to preserve church PR and shut off the investigation. He did that and polygamy abuses have grown since that day to this.

Children are isolated and brainwashed to be polygamists.

Little girls must submit to dirty old men's sexual proclivities.

Incest is common.

Lost boys live in fear, squalor, and ignorance with no jobs or life skills, no family and possibly no friends.

Women are shunted from one man to the next and are forced to be sweet, compliant, and turn out as many babies as possible. They are usually denied education and they don't have skills to make it on their own if they're able to escape.

Much of this could have been prevented if David O. McKay and his buddies had faced the problems with honesty and compassion back in 1953.
topic image
Authoritative LDS Quotes On Homosexuality
Monday, Mar 31, 2014, at 07:36 AM
Original Author(s): Brad Carmack
Topic: LGBT - AND MORMONISM - SECTION 1   -Link To MC Article-
  1. "To the `misinformed' who believe `God make them that way'. This is as untrue as any other of the diabolical lies Satan has concocted. It is blasphemy. Man is made in the image of God. Does the pervert think God to be `that way?[i]'"
  2. "There appears to be a consensus in the world that it is natural, to one degree or another, for a percentage of the population. Therefore, we must accept it as all right. However, when you put a moral instrument on it, the needle immediately flips to the side labeled "wrong." It may even register "dangerous." The answer: It is not all right. It is wrong! It is not desirable; it is unnatural; it is abnormal; it is an affliction. When practiced, it is immoral.[ii]"
  3. "Some suppose that they were pre-set and cannot overcome what they feel are inborn tendencies toward the impure and unnatural. Not so! Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone? Remember, He is our Father.[iii]"
  4. "Satan tells his victims that it is a natural way of life; that it is normal; that perverts are a different kind of people born `that way' and that they cannot change. This is a base lie. All normal people have sex urges and if they control such urges, they grow strong and masterful. If they yield to their carnal desires and urges, they get weaker until their sins get beyond control. `The knowledge that homosexuality can be effectively treated must be made more generally known, to offset the effect of organized groups of homosexuals who would have society accept homosexuality and relieve them of the pressure to undergo the changes that can be effected through appropriate treatment. It can be overcome and the case of difficulty of overcoming depends largely upon the strength or weakness of the individual, the depth of his entrenchment, the quality and quantity of his desire and determination.'"[iv]
  5. "Some continue until, when the changing gets difficult, they admit their inability to cope with it and yield. They rationalize that they are of another class of people; that the Lord made them that way; that they cannot change. The powerful Lucifer has had his day."[v]
  6. "'God made me that way,' some say, as they rationalize and excuse themselves for their [homosexual] perversions. `I can't help it,' they add. This is blasphemy. Is man not made in the image of God, and does he think God to be `that way'?"[vi]"
  7. "God made no man a pervert. To blame a weakness and transgression upon God is cowardly."[vii]
  8. "Do not be misled by those who whisper that it is part of your nature and therefore right for you. That is false doctrine![viii]"
  9. "It was not God who made them [homosexuals] that way....He gave all mankind free agency.[ix]"
  10. "There is a falsehood that some are born with an attraction to their own kind, with nothing they can do about it. They are just "that way" and can only yield to those desires. That is a malicious and destructive lie. While it is a convincing idea to some, it is of the devil.[x]
  11. "God did not make men evil. He did not make people `that way.'"[xi]
  12. "Since homosexuals have become a nationwide entity, and have come out of hiding to demand their place in the sun, many of them claim that they are what they are because they were born that way and cannot help it. How ridiculous is such a claim. It was not God who made them that way, any more than He made bank robbers the way they are[xii].
  13. "There is some widely accepted theory extant that homosexuality is inherited. How can this be? No scientific evidence demonstrates absolutely that this is so. Besides, if it were so, it would frustrate the whole plan of mortal happiness. Our designation as men or women began before this world was. In contrast to the socially accepted doctrine that homosexuality is inborn, a number of respectable authorities contend that homosexuality is not acquired by birth. The false belief of inborn sexual orientation denies to repentant souls the opportunity to change and will ultimately lead to discouragement, disappointment, and despair.[xiii]"
  14. "When I say this is sin, I am quoting the Creator of the world. Truth is truth and needs no eloquent tongue nor brilliant brain to portray it."[xiv]
  15. "Next to the crime of murder comes the sin of sexual impurity as expressed in its many manifestations: adultery, fornication, homosexuality and related transgressions. Man is created in the image of God and prostitutes his God-given powers and image in such practices. No amount of rationalization can really neutralize the pollution. The death penalty was exacted in the days of Israel for such wrong-doing."[xv]
  16. "Homosexuality is an ugly sin, but because of its prevalence, the need to warn the uninitiated, and the desire to help those who may already be involved with it, it must be brought into the open. It is the sin of the ages....[xvi]"
  17. "Reason might also be employed to convince the individual that there is no future for a homosexual. the day will come in his life when there is nothing left but chaff and dust and barrenness and desolation."[xvii]
  18. "First, far less is known about the causes of same-gender attraction than is claimed to be known. Preliminary findings are touted as proven facts while retractions or contradicting evidence about the same issue receive little, if any, attention. The result is an abundance of untruth and distortions worthy of Isaiah's warning: `Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil.[xviii]"
  19. "homosexuals can be assured that in spite of all they may have heard from other sources, they can overcome and return to normal, happy living.[xix]"
  20. "If someone seeking your help says to you, `I am a homosexual,' or, `I am lesbian,' or, `I am gay,' correct this miscasting. it is simply not true. To speak this way seeds a doubt and deceit about who we really are.[xx]"
  21. "Please notice that I use [homosexual] as an adjective, not as a noun: I reject it as a noun. I repeat, I accept that word as an adjective to describe a temporary condition. I reject it as a noun naming a permanent one.[xxi]"
  22. "First, it is important to understand that homosexuality is not innate and unchangeable. Research has not proved that homosexuality is genetic. Even more important, many researchers whose studies have been used to support a biological model for homosexuality have determined that their work has been misinterpreted. What is clear is that homosexuality results from an interaction of social, biological, and psychological factors. These factors may include temperament, personality traits, sexual abuse, familial factors, and treatment by one's peers.[xxii]"
  23. "Today we are aware of great problems in our society. The most obvious are sexual promiscuity, homosexuality, drug abuse, alcoholism, vandalism, pornography, and violence. These grave problems are symptoms of failure in the home-the disregarding of principles and practices established by God in the very beginning.[xxiii]"
  24. "For centuries men have sought to find the cause of this condition. but it is not a physical disorder. A most extensive physical examination will not reveal one shred of evidence that it is. Physicians have never located any tangible control center in the body that can be adjusted by medical or surgical means to change this condition. The next obvious place to look is the emotional or psychological part of our nature. Here we come closer.[xxiv]"
  25. "There is a reason why we in the Church do not talk more openly about this subject. Some matters are best handled very privately. With many things, it is easy - very easy - to cause the very things we are trying to avoid. On one occasion, with a friend of mine, I went to the medical center of a large university to see another friend who was a doctor there. In the waiting room before us was a low table covered with pamphlets describing various diseases. My friend observed: `Well, there they are. Read enough about it and you'll think you've got it.' and I have already said that we can very foolishly cause things we are trying to prevent by talking too much about them.[xxv]"
  26. "Is this tendency impossible to change? Is it preset at the time of birth and locked in? Do you just have to live with it? For example, the shutter of an expensive camera is calibrated at the factory and cannot be adjusted in the field. If such a camera, by chance, is thrown out of calibration or damaged, it cannot be fixed locally. It must eventually go back to the factory, for only there can it be put in order. Is perversion like that? The answer is a conclusive no! It is not like that. Some so-called experts, and many of those who have yielded to the practice, teach that it is congenital and incurable and that one just has to learn to live with it. They can point to a history of very little success in trying to put whatever mechanism that causes this back into proper adjustment. They have, to support them, some very convincing evidence. Much of the so-called scientific literature concludes that there really is not much that can be done about it. I reject that conclusion out of hand.[xxvi]"
  27. "The chief psychiatrist at one of Washington's largest hospitals says, `A normal 12- or 13-year-old boy or girl exposed to pornographic literature could develop into a homosexual.'[xxvii]"
  28. "Having same-gender attraction is NOT in your DNA.[xxviii]"
  29. "First is the misconception that same-gender attraction is an inborn and unalterable orientation. This untrue assumption tries to persuade you to label yourselves and build your entire identity around a fixed sexual orientation or condition.[xxix]"
  30. "Some who become tangled up in this disorder become predators. They proselyte the young or the inexperienced. It becomes very important for them to believe that everyone, to one degree or another, is "that way". Do not be deceived. If you are one of the few who are subject to this temptation, do not be misled into believing that you are a captive to it. That is false doctrine![xxx]"
  31. "There are said to be millions of perverts who have relinquished their natural affection and bypassed courtship and normal marriage relationships. This practice is spreading like a prairie fire and changing our world. They are without `natural affection' for God, for spouses, and even for children.[xxxi]"
  32. "Every form of homosexuality is sin. Pornography is one of the approaches to that transgression.[xxxii]"
  33. "[A]nimals do not pair up with their own gender to satisfy their mating instincts.[xxxiii]"
  34. "Now it is not all that unusual for a boy or a girl, in a moment of childish play with someone of the same gender, to enter into some mischief. two young men or two young women, motivated by some attraction or responding to a desire for affection - any kind of affection - sometimes are drawn almost innocently into unnatural behavior. They can be drawn into some circumstances that makes them, for the moment, doubt their identity. Do not be deluded into thinking that such thoughts and feelings are normal for you. Just because you experience some period of confusion, do not make of that thing something that it is not. Do not order your life to conform to a transient thought or experience[xxxiv]."
  35. "Find a therapist who can help you identify the unmet emotional needs that you are tempted to satisfy in false sexual ways[xxxv]."
  36. "There is a distinction between immoral thoughts and feelings and participating in either immoral heterosexual or any homosexual behavior. However, such thoughts and feelings, regardless of their causes, can and should be overcome and sinful behavior should be eliminated. This can be achieved through faith in God, sincere repentance, and persistent effort.[xxxvi]"
  37. "Children learn how to love in a stable, healthy family. Parents need to know that lack of proper affection in the home can result in unnatural behavior in their children such as homosexuality or inability to be an effective parent when the time comes.[xxxvii]"
  38. ""We are told that as far back as Henry the VIII, this vice was referred to as 'THE ABOMINABLE AND DETESTABLE CRIME AGAINST NATURE. We know such a disease is curable. and promise him if he will stay away from the haunts and the temptations, and the former associates, he may heal himself, cleanse his mind and return to his normal pursuits and a happy state of mind. The cure for this malady lies in self mastery.[xxxviii]"
  39. "We talked of the influences that had put [a young gay man] where he is, of the home from which he came, of associations with other young men, of books and magazines read, of shows seen.[xxxix]"
  40. "It is easy to hypothesize that inheritance plays a role in sexual orientation. However it is important to remember, as conceded by two advocates of this approach, that `the concept of substantial heritability should not be confused with the concept of inevitable heritability. ... Most mechanisms probably involve interactions between constitutional predispositions and environmental events. Satan "seeks to undermine the principle of individual accountability, to persuade us to misuse our sacred powers of procreation, to discourage marriage and childbearing by worthy men and women, and to confuse what it means to be male or female.[xl]"
  41. "Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation....While we should not regard this weakness as the heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, it is of itself bad enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation - practiced with another person of the same sex - and then into total homosexuality.. Sin in sex practices tends to have a `snowballing' effect. As the restraints fall away, Satan incites the carnal man to ever-deepening degeneracy in his search for excitement until in many instances he is lost to any former consideration of decency. Thus it is that through the ages, perhaps as an extension of homosexual practices, men and women have sunk even to seeking sexual gratification with animals[xli]."
  42. "If an individual tries to receive comfort, satisfaction, affection, or fulfillment from deviate physical interaction with someone of his own gender, it can become an addiction! At first it may fill a need and give comfort of some kind, but, when that has faded, feelings of guilt and depression follow. A greater need soon emerges.[xlii]"
  43. "It should go without saying that many of these problems would be alleviated if parents would spend more time teaching and rearing their children. Related to the story that I gave at the beginning of my talk is evidence of a clinical researcher who, after studying 850 individual cases, stated: "Homosexuality would not occur where there is a normal, loving father-and-son relationship." Any of our people living in righteousness would normally avoid being involved in these problems.[xliii]"
  44. "The Lord defined some very basic differences between men and women. He gave the male what we call masculine traits and the female feminine traits. He did not intend either of the sexes to adopt the other's traits but, rather, that men should look and act like men and that women should look and act like women. When these differences are ignored, an unwholesome relationship develops, which, if not checked, can lead to the reprehensible, tragic sin of homosexuality. In other words, we have a responsibility as priesthood bearers to be examples of true manhood.[xliv]"
  45. "There are some circumstances in which young men may be tempted to handle one another. When a young man is finding his way into manhood, such experiences can misdirect his normal desires and pervert him not only physically but emotionally and spiritually as well.[xlv]"
  46. "Normal desires and attractions emerge in the teenage years; there is the temptation to experiment, to tamper with the sacred power of procreation. These desires can be intensified, even perverted, by pornography, improper music, or the encouragement from unworthy associations. What would have only been a more or less normal passing phase in establishing gender identity can become implanted and leave you confused, even disturbed. If you consent, the adversary can take control of your thoughts and lead you carefully toward a habit and to an addiction, convincing you that immoral, unnatural behavior is a fixed part of your nature. With some few, there is the temptation which seems nearly overpowering for man to be attracted to man or woman to woman. The scriptures plainly condemn those who "dishonour their own bodies between themselves . ; men with men working that which is unseemly" or "women [who] change the natural use into that which is against nature." The gates of freedom, and the good or bad beyond,
  47. sw
  48. ing open or closed to the password choice. You are free to choose a path that may lead to despair, to disease, even to death."[xlvi]"
  49. "Important as it is, building stronger homes is not enough in the fight against rising permissiveness. We therefore urge Church members as citizens to lift their voices, to join others in unceasingly combatting, in their communities and beyond, the inroads of pornography and the general flaunting of permissiveness. Let us vigorously oppose the shocking developments which encourage the old sins of Sodom and Gomorrah, and which defile the human body as the temple of God.[xlvii]"
  50. "Freedom from this kind of enslavement is up to a trail that an individual must walk alone. If you stumble, get up and move on. Soon your bruises will heal. You will grow stronger. Your battle is two-thirds won, or three-fourths or four-fifths won, when you take charge of your identity. Accept yourself as belonging in the tabernacle that God has provided for you. Your body was provided as an instrument of your mind. It has the purpose to bless others. Don't be mixed up in this twisted kind of self-love.[xlviii]"
  51. "A 1977 Sacramento Bee article "gave expert evidence that homosexuals certainly are not born - they are made - further defusing claims that they `can't help it.'[xlix]""
  52. "The Church refutes the idea that homosexual orientation is genetically determined..Furthermore, a genetic/biological cause of homosexual attraction has not found support in the scientific literature. "Science has never proved a genetic link to sexual orientation. Moreover, the Church repeatedly, in nearly every statement about homosexual relations, teaches that homosexual attraction is not inherent to a person's particular genetic make-up and that they are quite able to change.[l]"
  53. "BYU does not intend `to admit to our campus any homosexuals. If any of you have this tendency and have not completely abandoned it, may I suggest that you leave the university immediately after this assembly; and if you will be honest enough to let us know the reason, we will voluntarily refund your tuition. We do not want others on this campus to be contaminated by your presence.'[li]"
  54. "[BYU] will never knowingly enroll an unrepentant person who follows these practices nor tolerate on its campus anyone with these tendencies who fails to repent and put his or her life in order.[lii]"
  55. "Once the carnal in man is no longer checked by the restraints of family life and by real religion, there comes an avalanche of appetites which gathers momentum that is truly frightening. As one jars loose and begins to roll down hill, still another breaks loose, whether it is an increase in homosexuality, corruption, drugs, or abortion. Each began as an appetite that needed to be checked but which went unchecked.[liii]"
  56. "'Homosexuality can be cured if the battle is well organized and pursued vigorously and continuously.' [This obviously refers to the condition of sexual attraction to persons of the same sex.][liv]"
  57. "The words homosexual, lesbian, and gay are adjectives to describe particular thoughts, feelings, or behaviors. We should refrain from using these words as nouns [or pronouns] to identify particular conditions or specific persons. . . . It is wrong to use these words to denote a condition, because this implies that a person is consigned by birth to a circumstance in which he or she has no choice in respect to the critically important matter of sexual behavior.[lv]"
  58. "Usually, there will be some resistance, particularly with the abandonment of the people for many perverts will claim to have great "love" for some with whom they have been involved, especially where there has been a sustained relationship, but since the problem is in the mind more than in the body, it is necessary to find a new climate and to make possible the elimination of the evil thoughts which drive him back to his trouble.[lvi]"
  59. "Sexual immorality creates a barrier to the influence of the Holy Spirit with all its uplifting, enlightening, and empowering capabilities. It causes powerful physical and emotional stimulation. In time that creates an unquenchable appetite that drives the offender to ever more serious sin. It engenders selfishness and can produce aggressive acts such as brutality, abortion, sexual abuse, and violent crime. Such stimulation can lead to acts of homosexuality, and they are evil and absolutely wrong.[lvii]"
  60. "When one projects himself in some confused role-playing way with those of the same gender in an effort to become more masculine or more feminine, something flips over and precisely the opposite results. In a strange way, this amounts to trying to love yourself. A male, in his feelings and emotions, can become less masculine and more feminine and confused. A female can become, in her emotions, less feminine and more masculine and confused. Because the body cannot change, the emotional part may struggle to transform itself into the opposite gender. Then an individual is on a hopeless, futile quest for identity where it can never be achieved.[lviii]"
  61. "Only be the destruction of those who practice them. Why, if a little nest of them were left that were guilty of these things, they would soon corrupt others, as some are being corrupted among us... how can this [sodomy] be stopped? Not while those who have knowledge of these filthy crimes exist. The only way, according to all that I can understand as the word of God, is for the Lord to wipe them out, that there will be none left to perpetuate the knowledge of these dreadful practices among the children of men. And God will do it, as sure as He has spoken by the mouths of His prophets.[lix]"
  62. "When we understand fundamental moral law better than we do, we will be able to correct this condition routinely.[lx]"
  63. "Be choosy about the professionals you enlist. Many are proponents of the "you were born that way" philosophy. Ensure that the counseling is consistent with gospel principles.[lxi]"
  64. "Now it is not all that unusual for a boy or a girl, in a moment of childish play with someone of the same gender, to enter into some mischief that should remain essentially innocent and meaningless and should be forgotten. And two young men or two young women, motivated by some attraction or responding to a desire for affection - any kind of affection - sometimes are drawn almost innocently into unnatural behavior. They can be drawn into some circumstances that makes them, for the moment, doubt their identity. Do not be deluded into thinking that such thoughts and feelings are normal for you. Just because you experience some period of confusion, do not make of that thing something that it is not. Do not order your life to conform to a transient thought or experience. And just because someone has stubbed his toe a bit, or just because someone did not watch carefully where he was going and got off the track into some unnatural behavior, or just because he may have fallen victim to some clever predator, th
  65. at
  66. is no reason to jump off the cliff into spiritual oblivion[lxii]." (1978)
  67. "begin the ruinous practice of perversion through curiosity and then become entangled in its tentacles.[lxiii]"
  68. "First, it is important to understand that homosexuality is not innate and unchangeable. Research has not proved that homosexuality is genetic.[lxiv]"
  69. "Many questions, however, including some related to same-gender attractions, must await a future answer, even in the next life.[lxv]"
  70. "The cause of this disorder has remained hidden for so long because we have been looking for it in the wrong place. When the cause is discovered, it may be nothing so mysterious after all. It may be hidden because it is so obvious. Have you explored the possibility that the cause when found, will turn out to be a very typical form of selfishness - selfishness in a very subtle form? Now - and understand this - I do not think for a minute that the form of selfishness at the root of perversion is a conscious one, at least not to begin with. I am sure it is quite the opposite. Selfishness can attach itself to an individual without his being aware that he is afflicted with it. It can become imbedded so deeply and disguised so artfully as to be almost indistinguishable. It is hard to believe that any individual would, by a clear, conscious decision or by a pattern of them, choose a course of deviation. It is much more subtle than that. If one could even experiment with the possibility that selfishness of a ve
  71. ry s
  72. ubtle nature may be the cause of this disorder, that quickly clarifies many things. It opens the possibility of putting some very sick things in order. When one has the humility to admit that a spiritual disorder is tied to perversion and that selfishness rests at the root of it, already the way is open to the treatment of the condition. It is a painful admission indeed that selfishness may be at the root of it, but we do not have much evidence that one can cure perversion by trying to cure perversion. If unselfishness can effect a cure, we ought to be desperate enough by now at least to experiment with the possibility. I repeat, we have had very little success in trying to remedy perversion by treating perversion. It is very possible to cure it by treating selfishness... you can understand unselfishness and selfishness. You can learn to cure perversion. [lxvi]"
  73. "In the event that you have members who have homosexual tendencies or activities, it will be your privilege and responsibility to assist them to effect a cure and bring their lives back into total normalcy. This dread practice is becoming widespread in the country and there is some of it even among our members which we deeply regret."[lxvii]
  74. "The entrenched homosexual has generally and gradually moved all of his interests and affections to those of his own sex rather than to the opposite sex and herein is another step. When you feel he is ready, he should be encouraged to date and gradually move his life toward the normal. If they will close the door to the intimate associations with their own sex and open it wide to that of the other sex, of course in total propriety, and then be patient and determined, gradually they can move their romantic interests where they belong. Homosexuality CAN be cured." [lxviii]
  75. "You might be able for a time to deceive your associates and leaders. But, you cannot lie to yourself nor to your lord, for in spite of all the rationalization, you know deep in your heart what you are. You may be able to convince your mind that it is not so wrong but deep in your heart, you will always be uneasy and unhappy and know that your sin is vicious and base. Remember there are no rooms with such tight windows or with blinds so heavy but that the Lord and his angles know what is going on."[lxix]
  • [i] Spencer W. Kimball, August 13, 1975
  • [ii] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [iii] Boyd K. Packer, Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, "Cleansing the Inner Vessel" October 3 2010. I report the version I heard from his lips when I watched General Conference.
  • [iv] Horizons for Homosexuals, published by the church in 1971.
  • [v] Horizons for Homosexuals, published by the church in 1971.
  • [vi] Spencer W. Kimball, Church President, "President Kimball Speaks Out on Morality", Ensign, November 1980, p. 97.
  • [vii] Horizons for Homosexuals, published by the church in 1971.
  • [viii] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [ix] Mark E. Petersen, Apostle, December 16, 1978, "Sin is No Excuse", Church News, p. 16.
  • [x] Boyd K. Packer, "To Young Men Only," General Conference Priesthood Session, October 2, 1976.
  • [xi] Horizons for Homosexuals, published by the church in 1971.
  • [xii] Mark E. Petersen, Apostle, December 16, 1978, "Sin is no excuse," Church News, p. 16.
  • [xiii] James E. Faust, "Serving the Lord and Resisting the Devil," Ensign, Sep 1995, 2.
  • [xiv] Horizons for Homosexuals, published by the church in 1971.
  • [xv] Horizons for Homosexuals, published by the church in 1971.
  • [xvi] "The Foundations of Righteousness," General Conference, Spencer Kimball 1977.
  • [xvii] Hope for Transgressors, published by the church in 1970.
  • [xviii] Bishop Keith McMullin, Evergreen International Annual Conference, Saturday, September 18, 2010.
  • [xix] First Presidency Circular Letter, March 19, 1970, LDS Church Archives.
  • [xx] Bishop Keith McMullin, Evergreen International Annual Conference, Saturday, September 18, 2010.
  • [xxi] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [xxii] A. Dean Byrd, "When a Loved One Struggles with Same-Sex Attraction," Ensign, Sep 1999, 51.
  • [xxiii] Ezra Taft Benson, Presiding Apostle November 1982, "Fundamentals of Enduring Family Relationships", Ensign, p. 59.
  • [xxiv] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [xxv] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978 and published in 1978 by "Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints", popularly distributed afterward in this pamphlet form.
  • [xxvi] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [xxvii] Victor L. Brown Sr., 2nd Counselor in Presiding Bishopric, April 4, 1970, Conference Reports, April 1970, p. 31.
  • [xxviii] Elder Bruce C. Hafen, Evergreen International Annual Conference, 19 September 2009. Available at
  • [xxix] Elder Bruce C. Hafen, Evergreen International Annual Conference, 19 September 2009. Available at
  • [xxx] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [xxxi] Spencer W. Kimball, Delivered April 3, 1971, "Voices of the Past, of the Present, of the Future, Ensign, June 1971, p. 16.
  • [xxxii] Spencer W. Kimball, Church President, October 4, 1974,"God Will Not Be Mocked", Ensign, Nov. 1974, p. 4.
  • [xxxiii] Boyd K. Packer, "Our Moral Environment," Ensign, May 1992, 66.
  • [xxxiv] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [xxxv] Elder Bruce C. Hafen, Evergreen International Annual Conference, 19 September 2009. Available at
  • [xxxvi] Office of the First Presidency, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, November 14, 1991. To: All Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Dear Brethren and Sisters: Standards of Morality and Fidelity. Available at
  • [xxxvii] Victor L. Brown Jr., BYU Instructor, "Two Views of Sexuality", Ensign, July 1975, p. 50.
  • [xxxviii] Spencer W. Kimball, July 10, 1964, "A Counseling Problem in the Church" - BYU Devotional for LDS Seminary & Institute Instructors.
  • [xxxix] Gordon B. Hinckley, "Opposing Evil", Ensign, November 1975, p. 38.
  • [xl] Dallin H. Oaks, Apostle, October 1995, "Same-Gender Attraction", Ensign, pp. 7-8.
  • [xli] "The Abominable and Detestable Crime Against Nature: A Revised History of Homosexuality and Mormonism, 1840-1980" by Connell O'Donovan. Available at Quoting chapter six, "The Crime Against Nature," of The Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer Kimball, pg. 77-78.
  • [xlii] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [xliii] J. Richard Clarke, 2nd Counselor in Presiding Bishopric, "Ministering to Needs through LDS Social Services", Ensign, May 1977, p. 85.
  • [xliv] Victor L. Brown Sr., 2nd Counselor in Presiding Bishopric "The Meaning of Morality", Ensign, June 1971, p. 55.
  • [xlv] Boyd K. Packer, "To Young Men Only," General Conference Priesthood Session, October 2, 1976.
  • [xlvi] Boyd K. Packer, Acting Presiding Apostle, October 8, 2000, "Ye Are the Temple of God", Ensign, Nov. 2000, p. 72.
  • [xlvii] Spencer W. Kimball, Church President, "The Foundations of Righteousness, Ensign, November 1977, p. 4.
  • [xlviii] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [xlix] Mark E. Petersen, Apostle, January 14, 1978, "The strong delusions", Church News, p. 16.
  • [l] Dean Byrd, October 2001, Homosexuality and the Church of Jesus Christ: Understanding Homosexuality According to the Doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Cedar Fort Press.
  • [li] Ernest L. Wilkinson, "Make Honor Your Standard", Deseret News, Church News supplement, November 13, 1965, p. 11.
  • [lii] Spencer Kimball, "Love versus Lust," 5 January 1965, later published in BYU Speeches of the Year.
  • [liii] Spencer W. Kimball, Church President, "Listen to the Prophets," Ensign, May 1978, p. 76.
  • [liv] Dallin H. Oaks, "Principles to Govern Possible Public Statement on Legislation Affecting Rights of Homosexuals," Memo proposing "general principles to guide those who prepare the text of a public statement if one is needed", 7 August 1984,
  • [lv] Dallin Oaks, Apostle, Same-Gender Attraction," Ensign, Oct. 1995, 9.
  • [lvi] Spencer Kimball, Hope for Transgressors, pamphlet published by the church in 1970.
  • [lvii] Richard G. Scott, "Making the Right Choices," Ensign, Nov 1994, 37.
  • [lviii] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [lix] D. Michael Quinn, Same-Sex Dynamics among Nineteenth-Century Americans: A Mormon Example, (Urbana and Chicago: University of Illinois Press, 1996) p. 417; and O'Donovan, "Abominable", p. 144- George Q. Cannon, 1897. Also available on pg. 53, The year of jubilee: A full report of the proceedings of the fiftieth annual conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, held in the large tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Utah, April 6th, 7th and 8th, A. D. 1880 ; Also a report of the exercises in the Salt Lake Assembly Hall, on the Sunday and Monday just preceding the conference, Volume 1. Also October 1897, Report of the 68th Semiannual General Conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 65-66.
  • By Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, George F. Gibbs, John Irvine (reporter).
  • [lx] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [lxi] A. Dean Byrd, "When a Loved One Struggles with Same-Sex Attraction," Ensign, Sep 1999, 51.
  • [lxii] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [lxiii] Spencer Kimball, New Horizons for Homosexuals pamphlet, 1971.
  • [lxiv] A. Dean Byrd, "When a Loved One Struggles with Same-Sex Attraction," Ensign, Sep 1999, 51.
  • [lxv] (2007).
  • [lxvi] Elder Boyd K. Packer, To the One, delivered at 12-stake regional conference March 5, 1978.
  • [lxvii] Hope for Transgressors, published by the church in 1970.
  • [lxviii] Hope for Transgressors, published by the church in 1970.
  • [lxix] Horizons for Homosexuals, published by the church in 1971.
topic image
If Only They Were Working For Free!
Monday, Mar 31, 2014, at 07:32 AM
Original Author(s): Anon2
Topic: MISSIONARIES - SECTION 6   -Link To MC Article-
Oh no. "For free" does not even begin to describe the senior missionary experience. The Mormon "church" continues to tie up more and more BILLIONS of dollars in profit generating adventures such as exclusive hunting preserves available only to the very top Mormon elite and their friends and business guests, high end shopping malls, executive condo complexes and hundreds of similar such. At the same time they are firing and laying off thousands of middle and low income paid employees they have the audacity to refill those VERY SAME JOBS by volunteer "missionaries" who are actually STUPID enough to pay LDS INC. for the "privilege" of being an over-worked, under-appreciated slave. How most of these "opportunities" can even be classified into the category of Christian outreach stretches credulity beyond its very limit and frankly, boggles the mind.

The following link contains a jaw dropping list of "service to the Lord" opportunities for Mormon retirees still looking for even more ways to be drained of their remaining time on this earth and of course, precious financial assets Mormon(ey) Incorporated simply cannot get enough of.

Here's one such "missionary" opportunity; Natural Resources Services

Natural Resources Services Energy (oil and gas) is seeking individuals (or couples) with professional experience in one of the following areas:
  • Petroleum land management
  • Petroleum engineering
  • Petroleum auditing
  • Petroleum geology
The oil and gas positions listed above are for service in the Church Office Building in Salt Lake City, Utah. The individuals (or couples) will assist in safeguarding, developing, and increasing Church energy interests in the US and Canada.

The service includes:
  • Working in databases for properties, finances, contracts, and maps.
  • Identifying, evaluating, and mapping Church mineral interests.
  • Coding and auditing oil and gas revenues.
  • Evaluating and negotiating on agreements and investments.
This is a full-time assignment for 18 to 23 months. The qualified applicant(s) should be able to work with minimal supervision and have good communication and computer skills. The non-professional spouse can assist in Natural Resources Services or in another assignment that matches his or her skills or interests.

Religiou$ Outreach My A$$!!
topic image
"Atheists Are Anti-Christs." - Paraphrase Of Dallin Oaks
Friday, Mar 28, 2014, at 12:22 PM
Original Author(s): No_hidden_agenda
Topic: DALLIN H. OAKS   -Link To MC Article-
Speaking at the BYU-I devotional on February 25, 2014 Elder Dallin H. Oaks said the following (emphasis mine):
"The Apostle John uses the term anti-Christ to describe one who “denieth the Father and the Son” (1 John 2:22). Today, those who deny the existence of God are called atheists. Some of these ridicule the faith of those who believe in what cannot be proven, even as they aggressively deny a godly existence they cannot disprove."

My apologies to the world. I didn't realize I was an anti-Christ. I have been neglecting my devilish duties. I will repent and get busy!
topic image
Will There Ever Be More "Revelations"?
Thursday, Mar 27, 2014, at 07:07 AM
Original Author(s): Sock Puppet
Topic: EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 24   -Link To MC Article-
"Mums" the word, or so it seems, with the FP/12 claiming revelation in recent years.

Oh sure, there's the number of earrings per ear, and the one that made Holland so damn giddy he probably left skid marks on his garments: dropping missionary age from 19 to 18 for boys and from 21 to 19 for girls.

But in recent years, FP/12 have asked stake congregations not to record their talks. L Tom Perry teases in Sweden he has a satchel full of proofs, that never emerge. Holland--the apostle gift that never stops giving--having an English journalist get the better of him on LDS topics. (That last one is reminiscent of GBH on Larry King Live, when it was clear that King's staff was better prepared on Mormon topics than GBH on how to handle questions about, of all things, Mormonism.)

But there's some real problems. Uchtdorf thinks the doors of the LDS Church are open to partial believers. Boy, try that one out on Packer. How could they be "prophets, seers and revelators" of the same divine source and receive such different messages? "What's the frequency, Kenneth?" Can't the all tune into KGOD 98.6?

President Newsroom would have us believe that all of the FP/12 were tuned into the wrong station on the dial for more than 125 years when E/J were trying to let them know the black ban on the priesthood was wrong. Boy, can you imagine how bad it was in August 1949, when the FP was tuned in to a frequency that the FP issued an official statement that the black priesthood ban was a direct commandment from the Lord? Pres Newsroom obviously has at last figured out where on the dial E/J are signaling, assuring that E/J all along was in favor of blacks having the priesthood. (I wonder how long it will take the FP/12 to find the spot on the dial for finding out that E/J's has never been in favor of the female ban on the priesthood, or against gays and lesbians getting married?)

The FP/12 should be the most harmonious 15 on the planet. They all believe that each of them is receiving the same frequency signal from the same broadcaster. In their meetings, they should even have to speak. What E/J is revealing to each should be identical, and the FP/12 should just be sitting there, all smiling at the same time when E/J reveals to them something pleasant or good, and all break out laughing at one time if E/J has a sense of humor. But, it turns out, they're more like the board of directors and officers of a corporation. (Never mind that is all they actually are.)

McConkie was bold, declaring what "Mormon Doctrine" is. Hey, he was a 'prophet, seer and revelator' and wrote a compendium of the doctrine. Who could argue with that? But since he's dead, that's become rather vogue of Mormons to do. McConkie provided a definite, fixed target. Boy, was that hard to defend for apologists, who find it much easier to deal with a soft, ever moving target--an endless stream of 'upon closer examinations'. It's the Maxwell Institute after all, not the McConkie Institute. Who can identify any specific, definitive doctrine the prophet, seer and revelator Maxwell ever pronounced? He was the mopologists' dream--a blank canvas on which they could paint whatever they needed to, trying to rebut a critic.

The reason there were slam dunks with McConkie was that he told you were the Mormon backboard and hoop were. Not slippery Maxwell; he didn't even acknowledge there was a backboard or hoop.

As the information age bloomed, declarative statements like those of McConkie became ever increasingly problematic. How could the "Church" explain them? Much better to be vague and ethereal, 'spiritual' rather than an oracle.

As hokey as I now realize those doctrines were, at least the Church I grew up in was not ashamed and embarrassed of its doctrine. The Church in my rearview mirror has now become so skittish, its "prophets, seers and revelators" don't want to be recorded, don't want to own up to their own words as might be recorded, and GCs have become drier than simply re-reading the Ensign from last November.

The LDS Church has to keep its "prophets, seers and revelators" boxed in. Heaven forbid that god might try to say something through them, right? The Corporation might then have to stand behind embarrassing remarks that those oracles of god might utter? How can the LDS Church afford to declare any more "revelations", knowing that soon they will be ruing the day they 'revealed' it?

They seem more like 15 little deer caught in the headlights, unable to know if they should break left or break right, and so stay frozen right where they are, right where they are being run over.
topic image
Missionary Asks Investigator To Remove All Pictures Of Pope
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014, at 07:34 AM
Original Author(s): Sorella Victoria Vincent
Topic: MISSIONARIES - SECTION 6   -Link To MC Article-
From Sorella Victoria Vincent, "I am currently serving a mission for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in the Italy Rome mission!":
We saw our investigator who is very catholic (has pope pictures EVERYWHERE) So we had a lesson and at the end, asked her to take down the pope pictures and replace them with pictures of Jesus (that we provided :)) She kind of agreed to do it...she said in her bedroom, she would. But we said no, tutte :) We will see if she does it! I hope so! We were just thanking our many blessings that she didn't kick us out of her house!
See: http://sorellavictoriavincent.blogspo...

Italian word "tutte" or "come tutte le" means "Like All".

Editor Note:: Please stop with the vulgarities on the comments for her blog.
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Current Blogged Items
Tue, Apr 15, 2014:
Remembering The Forgotten Women Of Joseph Smith: Almera Johnson
The Term "Anti-Mormon"
Mon, Apr 14, 2014:
Elder Oaks Speech On Religious Freedom
Thu, Apr 10, 2014:
Elder Bednar Perpetuates A Falsehood About The Savior
New Church Policy - General Authorities Have No Answers To Difficult Questions
Wed, Apr 9, 2014:
Prof. Hamblin Launches A New Blog
The Ever Changing And Deceitful Doctrine Of The Church
The Polynesian Cultural Center
Tue, Apr 8, 2014:
A Letter To Mormons: I Don't Need Your Sympathy.
Mon, Apr 7, 2014:
Kinder, Gentler Apologetic: How Does That Work?
Holland - Desolation If You Don't Defend Mormonism
"Careful With The Internet". Last Talk: "Get On LDS Dot Org."
Struggling To Respond To Nosy Mormons
General Conference: A Marketer's Perspective
Thu, Apr 3, 2014:
Dallin Hoax's Talk - He Lies Or Spews Garbage In Almost Every Sentence
Tue, Apr 1, 2014:
Current Issue Of Ensign: Someone Sold House To Go To Temple
I'm So Grateful My Own Children Aren't Living Under The Pressure Of Serving A Mission
Why I Hate David O. Mckay
Mon, Mar 31, 2014:
Authoritative LDS Quotes On Homosexuality
If Only They Were Working For Free!
Fri, Mar 28, 2014:
"Atheists Are Anti-Christs." - Paraphrase Of Dallin Oaks
Thu, Mar 27, 2014:
Will There Ever Be More "Revelations"?
Wed, Mar 26, 2014:
Missionary Asks Investigator To Remove All Pictures Of Pope
5,766 Articles In 365 Topics
TopicImage TOPIC INDEX (365 Topics)

  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 1 (25)
  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 2 (25)
  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 3 (25)
  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 4 (25)
  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 5 (25)
  · BOB MCCUE - SECTION 6 (19)
  · BOY SCOUTS (22)
  · BOYD K. PACKER (33)
  · BRIAN C. HALES (1)
  · BRUCE C. HAFEN (4)
  · CALLINGS (11)
  · COMEDY - SECTION 1 (24)
  · COMEDY - SECTION 2 (21)
  · COMEDY - SECTION 3 (24)
  · COMEDY - SECTION 4 (22)
  · COMEDY - SECTION 5 (37)
  · DALLIN H. OAKS (103)
  · DANITES (4)
  · DAVID A. BEDNAR (24)
  · DAVID O. MCKAY (9)
  · DAVID R. STONE (1)
  · DNA (24)
  · DON JESSE (2)
  · EMMA SMITH (5)
  · FARMS (30)
  · GEORGE P. LEE (1)
  · HAROLD B. LEE (1)
  · HAUNS MILL (2)
  · HBO BIG LOVE (12)
  · HOLIDAYS (13)
  · HUGH NIBLEY (13)
  · HYMNS (7)
  · JAMES E. FAUST (7)
  · JOHN GEE (3)
  · JOHN L. LUND (3)
  · JUDAISM (3)
  · JULIE B. BECK (6)
  · L. TOM PERRY (5)
  · LAMANITES (37)
  · MARRIOTT (2)
  · MASONS (16)
  · MICHAEL R. ASH (26)
  · MITT ROMNEY (71)
  · NAUVOO (3)
  · ORRIN HATCH (10)
  · PARLEY P. PRATT (11)
  · PAUL H. DUNN (5)
  · PRIMARY (1)
  · PROPOSITION 8 (21)
  · QUENTIN L. COOK (11)
  · SEMINARY (5)
  · SHERI L. DEW (3)
  · TALKS - SECTION 1 (1)
  · TIME (4)
  · TITHING - SECTION 1 (25)
  · TITHING - SECTION 2 (25)
  · TITHING - SECTION 3 (22)
  · UGO PEREGO (5)
  · UK COURTS (7)
  · VAN HALE (16)
  · VIDEOS (30)
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