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THE MORMON CURTAIN
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2008 Exmormon Foundation Conference Oct. 17 - 19, 2008
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The time is flying! And time to remind everyone again about the Exmormon Foundation coming up October
17-19, 2008.
Please join us for our annual weekend of education, enlightenment, personal stories, and mingling with a group of interesting and brave people who are exploring life after Mormonism.
Embassy Suites Hotel, Salt Lake City, UT Click here for details: http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/200....
Amazing line up of activities and speakers for 2008, including Steven Hassan - mental health counselor and expert on cults!
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EX-MORMONISM SECTION 10
Total Articles:
48
A very large selection of posts made by those in recovery from Mormonism. Culled from throughout the Ex-Mormon Communities.
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Growing up in a religious cult and cult society, I was encouraged to always be happy, sunny, and cheerful. I was told by my YM teachers, and by my own mother, that "boys do not like brooding girls." I was encouraged to shove any authentic emotion deep down inside, and cultivate an appearance of happiness, even if I was not authentically feeling happy. If per chance you meet a frown, do not let it stay. Quickly turn it upside down and smile that frown away. Smile it away -- not deal with what it is that is making me unhappy, but just keep smiling until my cheeks ache.
My Aunt Lynn, my mother's closest sister, had cultivated the appearance of happiness, to a professional degree. She could not talk about anything that wasn't happy and shiny. If I could sense she wasn't happy and I asked what was wrong, her immediate answer, without pause, was "Nothing." While repressing and not dealing with unpleasant emotions probably caused her to be even more unhappy, one of the side-effects of this was that she'd snap, and "lash out" for no reason. That pent-up anger, frustration, and sadness would spurt out occasionally, and at random. Aunt Lynn was my babysitter, and was in our house growing up a lot, so I'm sure I got to see it more than other relatives. She would suddenly cry, or someone would say something unrelated, and she'd get really angry, for what seemed to me like no reason.
This was an ingrained pattern with her, and with a lot of Mormons, and it's a pattern that I, in turn, learned. You stuff emotions down, and if you occasionally have an anger fit or sob for 24 hours for no reason, or if your response to everything was a burst of anger, that was all part of growing up. (Just don't let any boys know that you do it.)
It was only when I moved away to college at Boise State, and started interacting with a wide variety of women from a wide variety of backgrounds, that I realized my emotional training as a youth was severly flawed. It took several years of hard work, and assessing and addressing my behavior head-on, to get out of the rut I was in. I was responding to everything that wasn't happy, with anger. Flat tire on my 10-speed = anger. The movie I wanted at Blockbuster was out = anger. Someone played music I didn't like = anger. I realized that I was actually angry a lot, and that I didn't know what the correct emotional response to any of those situations was. If not anger, then what? Wasn't it okay to be angry if my movie was out? Couldn't I be furious that I got a flat tire? Why couldn't I yell over the stupid music that whoever liked it was an idiot? Well, because anger has its place, but dislike of music wasn't really that place. Besides, I wasn't actually angry that someone liked different music; I was angry at something (or a collection of things) that happened years ago, and that I never dealt with properly, just stuffed it inside and left it there to simmer, unhealthily, and then come out in a fireball at someone and something unrelated, something that wouldn't have spawned anger in an emotionally healthy person.
Getting over that type of emotional displacement can take years. Some people figure it out faster than others, but for the most part, our emotional responses get trained at a very, very early age. We develop these patterns as children and when they are reinforced as youth and finally as adults, they can become very, very difficult to change. Simply finding out that Joseph Smith was a con man, a pedophile, and a liar will not change decades of haywire emotional training.
I think it's important to look at your own responses to life's events. There's a lot of that mis-placed anger here on RfM. The anger itself is justified, from what we've been through emotionally, physically, and mentally. But the ways that anger is expressed sometimes is not healthy. Berating angrily someone who believes differently than you is an example. Jumping on the person who asked what a Jack Mormon is is another example. Expecting to get "flamed" for your ideas is another. Accussing people of being trolls is yet another.
"Rage" is not necessarily a healthy response to hearing words you disagree with.
But when some of use weren't taught what the healthy response is, sometimes rage is what we express. I feel lucky that I was able to co-mingle with emotionally healthy people and recognize my unhealthy pattern, and work to change it. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I feel like my emotions are more inline with how I actually feel, and I feel much happier knowing that if something happens that I don't like, I'm not necessarily going to become angry and shouting. I can reserve anger for the times and reasons that it actually IS the healthy response.
| At another site, a poster explained how one day she realized that despite so many years out of the cult, she was still giving up everything for "the truth". As I read through her post, I realized that I, too, am still giving "it all" up... but for what? Or perhaps more importantly, for whom am I being a doormat now??
Unawares, I'm still giving it all up to the "god" who takes and take and takes, and then, when you're about to break, he coldly tells you to stop shirking and start magnifying your duties. The "god" who is never satisfied, to the extent that he made us all promise to never stop giving everything up for the cult. The "god" who snarkily proclaims that any of us can have anything in this world for money... The "god" who would have us give up our time, talents, happines, joy, peace, prosperity, health, well-being, uniqueness, free will... all for his version of "the truth."
Despite being out of the cult, how many of us still carry some residule programming around in our heads, stuck there like a piece of gristle tightly wedged between our teeth?
How many of us find ourselves still giving up "everything" for "the truth"... because we've been conditioned to do no less? We'd give up our marriages, families, homes, jobs, friends, etc, all because we promised over and over again, Sunday after Sunday, temple session after temple session, to always put the morg truth before anything else... including before ourselves and our lives? Not only did we make these promises over and over again (and, being the decent honorable people we are, darn but we're still keeping some of those promises tho' we have no idea we're doing so)... we made these promises under duress.
We made these promises under threat of death.
Where's the free will in that??
The best brainwashing leaves "land mines" in our heads. Land mines that need to be found, identified, and diffused before we can move forward in our healing. Land mines that although we don't consciously realize they're there, our unconscious is well aware of them and thus afraid to mess with them because we all know what land mines are designed to do.
Fortunately these land mines can frequently be diffused by simply hearing and accepting real truth, like when I read those words and felt the weight of the world being lifted off my shoulders. No wonder I've felt so oppressed despite being out of the morg and seeing the truth about it. I swore under penalty of death to do whatever they told me... or else... they'd hurt my loved ones.
Where's the free will in that??
With all this oppression, it's easy to lose hope. Yet if I lose hope, I won't keep fighting back to heal and be completely FREE of the morg mind meld. Loss of hope means they win... and I don't ever want to give any bully an easy victory.
| Growing up in a religious cult and cult society, I was encouraged to always be happy, sunny, and cheerful. I was told by my YM teachers, and by my own mother, that "boys do not like brooding girls." I was encouraged to shove any authentic emotion deep down inside, and cultivate an appearance of happiness, even if I was not authentically feeling happy. If per chance you meet a frown, do not let it stay. Quickly turn it upside down and smile that frown away. Smile it away -- not deal with what it is that is making me unhappy, but just keep smiling until my cheeks ache.
My Aunt Lynn, my mother's closest sister, had cultivated the appearance of happiness, to a professional degree. She could not talk about anything that wasn't happy and shiny. If I could sense she wasn't happy and I asked what was wrong, her immediate answer, without pause, was "Nothing." While repressing and not dealing with unpleasant emotions probably caused her to be even more unhappy, one of the side-effects of this was that she'd snap, and "lash out" for no reason. That pent-up anger, frustration, and sadness would spurt out occasionally, and at random. Aunt Lynn was my babysitter, and was in our house growing up a lot, so I'm sure I got to see it more than other relatives. She would suddenly cry, or someone would say something unrelated, and she'd get really angry, for what seemed to me like no reason.
This was an ingrained pattern with her, and with a lot of Mormons, and it's a pattern that I, in turn, learned. You stuff emotions down, and if you occasionally have an anger fit or sob for 24 hours for no reason, or if your response to everything was a burst of anger, that was all part of growing up. (Just don't let any boys know that you do it.)
It was only when I moved away to college at Boise State, and started interacting with a wide variety of women from a wide variety of backgrounds, that I realized my emotional training as a youth was severly flawed. It took several years of hard work, and assessing and addressing my behavior head-on, to get out of the rut I was in. I was responding to everything that wasn't happy, with anger. Flat tire on my 10-speed = anger. The movie I wanted at Blockbuster was out = anger. Someone played music I didn't like = anger. I realized that I was actually angry a lot, and that I didn't know what the correct emotional response to any of those situations was. If not anger, then what? Wasn't it okay to be angry if my movie was out? Couldn't I be furious that I got a flat tire? Why couldn't I yell over the stupid music that whoever liked it was an idiot? Well, because anger has its place, but dislike of music wasn't really that place. Besides, I wasn't actually angry that someone liked different music; I was angry at something (or a collection of things) that happened years ago, and that I never dealt with properly, just stuffed it inside and left it there to simmer, unhealthily, and then come out in a fireball at someone and something unrelated, something that wouldn't have spawned anger in an emotionally healthy person.
Getting over that type of emotional displacement can take years. Some people figure it out faster than others, but for the most part, our emotional responses get trained at a very, very early age. We develop these patterns as children and when they are reinforced as youth and finally as adults, they can become very, very difficult to change. Simply finding out that Joseph Smith was a con man, a pedophile, and a liar will not change decades of haywire emotional training.
I think it's important to look at your own responses to life's events. There's a lot of that mis-placed anger here on RfM. The anger itself is justified, from what we've been through emotionally, physically, and mentally. But the ways that anger is expressed sometimes is not healthy. Berating angrily someone who believes differently than you is an example. Jumping on the person who asked what a Jack Mormon is is another example. Expecting to get "flamed" for your ideas is another. Accussing people of being trolls is yet another.
"Rage" is not necessarily a healthy response to hearing words you disagree with.
But when some of use weren't taught what the healthy response is, sometimes rage is what we express. I feel lucky that I was able to co-mingle with emotionally healthy people and recognize my unhealthy pattern, and work to change it. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I feel like my emotions are more inline with how I actually feel, and I feel much happier knowing that if something happens that I don't like, I'm not necessarily going to become angry and shouting. I can reserve anger for the times and reasons that it actually IS the healthy response.
| I have been out of the church for a long time. Time heals many wounds. When I look back now, and read the posts on this board, I realize how much I tolerated. Wow, talk about being a beast of burden.
I lived in a rather comfortable home in America. I had freedoms most people in history only dreamed of. Despite this, I gave up much----for what?
I let a neighbor from the house across the street ask me about masturbation It was not any of his goddam business, but I let him ask . It made me cringe, but I let him ask . And I was 14 years old. WTF?
I gave up two years of my life to "serve as a missionary." I was not paid; my family paid for it.
What did I get from this?
I was not treated at all well. Every minute had to be accounted for. I got up when I was told to, read what I was told , worked when I was told ate what I was told and slept when I was told . No extra sleep was allowed.
I worked about 70 hours each week. When I was sick, I worked anyway. When I had typhoid, I was told to get out of the hospital. If it was dark, and freezing and rain and snow were slashing my companion and me, I stayed out and knocked on doors, even though the people had no desire to open their door, much less hear "my message."
I could not even talk freely, or express doubt. I tried it a couple of times, and was smacked like a kitten being hit by an Abrams tank. I even had to perform, and get up in testimony meetings, and lie like the others. We were even instructed to "put more feeing" into our testimonies. Our acting needed significant improvement.
I went through the temple, and found, much to my horror, it was not what I expected. But come to think of it, what did I expect? It was so secretive, no-one would tell me what I was getting into. I had no realistic expectations at all.
I made blood oaths, and "slit my throat." I promised to be perfect under pain of death. I came out wearing the underwear I was told to wear. I could not even choose that.
When I married, I married in a short, ugly little ceremony, wearing clothes I would not dream of being photographed in. No real wedding for me. I did the required and expected, and I was supposed to say how "beautiful," or "uplifting" it was. It was not. It was one of the biggest letdowns I have ever had. This was a wedding day, for God's sake.
If I made money, ten percent was not mine. No matter what, it belonged to the church. If the car needed work, ten percent belonged to the church, and paying for the car was my problem. I had but one obligation----pay the church. What they did with it was none of my business. The money went into their bottomless coffers, and that was it.
All this, while others in my country were free. They could choose their faith, give what they wanted, use their time as they wanted, and marry in a ceremony that actually made them look and feel married.
They could eat and drink what they chose. Some made "poor choices," but they had the choice. I did not.
I was told I had "free agency," and then my arm was twisted until I did exactly what I was told. In Mormonism, you are free to do exactly what you are told. Its a lovely thing, it really, really, is, and if you don't care to think, feel, question, or doubt, its just splendid.
Isn't it remarkable to see what we will give away for the reward of being chattel?
| We stopped by to see my eldest daughter who lives in one of the "Church approved" apartments in Provo. Funny how I now look at BYU/Church approved housing in Provo as almost a joke. I don't know of anywhere in the entire country where a Church has that kind of power, to approve or disapprove of how a private landowner does with his property.
I don't know if it's because of my disposition now but I have my radar on for such goofy things about the Church but things almost scream at me for their attention.
In my daughter's apartment, the refrigerator was covered with wedding announcements. It was crazy. I don't know where else weddings are so important. The coup de gras was to discover a catalogue for diamond rings on the end table. Imagine the poor young man who makes it into that apartment and is sitting around waiting for his date, checking out the reading material on the end table and discovering a diamond ring catalogue?
We attended a dinner later that evening at the new parents home. Of course, he's the bishop of the ward. They're a typical LDS family. Very happy. Peachy keen. He works for a company creating graphics for flight simulators for military applications, specifically training pilots I guess. I never know what to think of that. Working for a company that has defense contracts with the government so they can go off and kill innocent people around the world in the name of American "national security". Maybe it's just me.
The next morning, I showed up to the Temple dressed in my tuxedo. My 4th daughter who got married last September and her husband drove. We drove around the Church office building and stopped at the crosswalk for some people to walk past and he noticed that one them was a general authority...."Hey, that's Elder.....................!!!" with all the enthusiasm of a fan seeing their favourite movie star. I now find it silly to think I was the same way meeting Spencer Kimball. Imagine feeling butterflies because someone has a title "elder" which says nothing about what they've done with their lives.
I couldn't help but notice the influence of the Church in Utaw. The whole downtown area...Temple Square...the new conferance center...the office building...ZCMI...Beneficial Life...Zions Bank...billboards --The church news as part of a newspaper...all over. Can you say "theocracy"? The Church's mission on the planet is to control everything about everything. I was watching a film on the documentary channel about consumption in America and how it's affecting the planet. Unbridled consumerism is what the Church believes is proof that Americans are God's people since we're so "blessed".
So I got sent to the waiting room as I watched my wife's sisters and their husbands go past the "worthy member" line. I still haven't quite figured out how my wife and eldest daughter qualify as "worthy" given they've left me with a lawsuit and judgement. Yet I didn't want to spoil the day for daughter #2 by informing their bishops of their lack of integrity.
That's a hard one for me too. I somehow believed in my heart of hearts, that 25 years of devoted parenting means something somewhere. Apparently it does not. I thought being kind and considerate would give me something, it does not. In fact there were people who got to attend who didn't even know my daughter. Yet there's no one who looks at the situation in the Church and can say, "there's something wrong with this." I can't tell you how many, but to a person, the idea of a loving father (most know that I've been akin to superdad) not being able to attend the wedding of his own children is so appalling and disgusting to them. Their faces contort. They almost gasp with incredulity. It's so mind boggling and foreign to the senses most believe that if I were to show up and expect to go in that they couldn't keep me from going in. I'm sure they'd have security muscle me off the property. That would be a question for the forum.
So in that time, I started noticing things to see if I could bi-pass the hurt so when it was time for pictures I'd not be all swollen eyed.
There was an over weight man in a wheelchair that was struggling to stand up even with the assistance of his wife and another woman. I went over to help him up.
I learned that on a "normal" Friday and Saturday, the SLC temple will do 30-35 weddings. When school lets out they'll do as many as 60-65. But the world record, that is almost said with a hushed reverence is 103. I wondered how "speshul" that many weddings could possibly be?
I caught a flight back to Los Angeles the next day and was parked on the runway in Phoenix and saw the planes lined up, waiting to take off and it reminded me of the couples at the temple, lined up to take off. All of the people at the temple all looked the same. So focused on the ceremony. All like lemmings. The door would open and a new couple would appear. The poor photographers have their same pictures, none of which are looking into the crowd since there are so many people from different wedding parties it's hard to tell who belongs to what.
I noticed the dozens of brides, often in bare arms freezing in the winter cold. One after the other.
I saw a bride with a young girl, probably a sister, carrying her train and when they got to the "members only" door, I couldn't help but wonder if they have laser beams to zap out someone who shouldn't be there. They had to stop and figure out what to do with the little girl.
There was one man outside, on a cell phone with his hand on the top of the trash receptical. It looked like he was giving a talk in Church and the squarish trash can was his podium. I laughed at that.
The older gentleman at the desk was offering advice to newly married couples as to how to keep their marriages eternal. I rolled my eyes at that.
I saw hundreds of men coming into the Temple all dressed the same...short hair...white shirts...as if it were a missionary convention.
I didn't realize how the Temple has all of these steps that go up to a big door and was wondering if those doors go anywhere or were they set up for the purpose of handling more wedding parties. Families, brides and grooms scurried around the temple to find an open set of stairs for the family pictures. We had to halt the picture taking so that another group could make it past on their way to the next door portal and stairs.
I can't for the life of me thank the forum enough for the expression, "Mcwedding" "McMormon". It was like watching Church with incredible efficiency. Weddings were happening with the efficiency of a drive-thru window. Who knows, maybe someday they'll have weddings where you drive the temple wedding bus into a special ceiling room and no one has to leave their seats. Heck with a blue screen and modern technology, you could probably have your wedding pictures done in a studio and they could photoshop in the temple of your choice in the background.
As for me, my moment with my daughter was the night before. We stopped at an Albertsons grocery store to get my daughter some medicine and vitamins to ward off a cold that she felt was coming on. While she was in the store, I had the guy at the checkout page her using her first name and her married name. She came to the check out with a grin. Then after we were done with that, I stood in the cold and snow changing the bulb in her car headlight. There was something more human and fatherly and meaningful about that for me. I had 22 years of changing diapers, taking her to school, teaching her to ride a bicycle, comforting her, being in numerous community theater shows, daddy daughter dates. lunch with dad, we were on National television twice together, teaching her to drive, helping her with homework, drawing cartoons on her lunch bag, taking her fishing, building homes in Mexico, the Magic Castle, introducing her to Nicholas Cage and supporting her in a thousand ways. (somehow the story "The Giving Tree" popped into my head)
At the reception, I was determined not to get all teary eyed about it. I had a dance with my daughter and they picked some song I'd never heard of before. It had some line in it that went "I loved her first" and that did me in. I used to listen to the song, "Cat's in the Cradle" by Harry Chapin almost monthly for most of 20 years as a constant reminder to be a good dad.
It's been quite an education. I guess it depends on what you thing you're here on the planet for. I still believe I'm a spiritual being here for a human experience.
That there's a religious organization that's so clueless and blinded there own rules. I almost hope Romney wins because the Church would come under such scrutiny it would expose it for what it is.
What made it easier than the first one was the new son-in-law was more mature. He didn't come into my home and tell me "F-you, I'm marrying your daughter, that I've only been dating a month, like it or not" which is basically what the first one did. I could tell. I recognize it's an awkward situation for everyone. I hadn't expected that I'd learn to think for myself or challenge the veracity of the Church.
Another interesting thing was a conversation with both of my wifes' sister's husbands. We've had some pretty interesting talks over the years. Most of the time they'd been censored by wanting to maintain my flawless image. This time things were much different.
One of them must be close to 500 lbs. I was sharing with him some of the things I've been up to and he was amazed. There's something about being involved with the VA event, or house builds to Mexico, The Magic Castle, playing roller hockey (I missed a game to go to the wedding) among other things that really make organizing hymn books and listening to another talk on food storage seem rather empty.
The worst thing the Church does is occupy your time with stuff that doesn't matter under the guise that it's important. They would have you think being the hymn book co-ordinator is a meaningful way to spend your life. I asked him how life was and he talked about how wonderful it was because his brother came for a visit. They never talk of service, or trips, or risking or making a difference beyond what the Church allows them to do. There's no thinking for themselves. Because they're taught not to complain or judge, they don't. They accept things that boggle my mind.
The other shared that his marriage wasn't what it could be. His wife, like mine, didn't really learn to do anything either. They're couch potato molly mormon types. It's interesting when you get people outside of the auspices and influence of the Church, alone and with the permission to talk "off the record" just what they talk about.
The bankruptcy levels and use of prescription drugs for depression in Utah are evidence that all isn't well after all despite the good news reported in the Church News.
Well, 2 down and 6 more to go.
Lucky me. I sure have something wonderful to look forward to.
| Mormonism teaches Mormons to discount their normal feelings. A recommended book on this process is called "The Gift of Fear," by Gavin De Becker. In it, he points out that humans have built-in warning systems to protect them from many dangers. Our brains can take in sights and sounds around us and alert us to danger, sometimes without our knowing what specifically triggered the feelings.
De Becker advises readers to listen to their feelings and not to discount them or rationalize them away.
Mormonism has built-in controls which tend to make members dismiss their natural worries over trusting authority over using their own intellect.
Mormonism teaches members to put aside normal logical doubts.
It teaches them to not expect proof for the assertions preached by Mormon leaders.
It programs members to blindly trust priesthood-holders, especially leaders.
The Mormon church trains members to allow other Mormons to cross uncomfortable personal boundaries of home, family, personal choice.
Any organization which can dictate underwear has too much power over the private lives and emotions of its adherents.
I think part of recovery is to train ourselves to actually start listening to our feelings. For a church that claims feelings are more important than intellect, the Mormon Church does a good job of controlling and distorting how members feel or at least how they pretend to feel.
I agree with the two posters who recommended the De Becker book. It has nothing to do with cultism or Mormonism. But it has everything to do with getting in touch with our authentic feelings and using them for safety sake and to recover from Mormonism.
| Each person’s exit from Mormonism can be fraught with pain, loneliness and heartache as much as it can be filled with freedom, exhilaration and the joy of thinking, feeling and living authentically for the first time. It is this loneliness that I face more often than not in recent days as I am surrounded by a sea of faces that see only a heretic, an aberration, a fallen son…
My recovery is by no means complete. I walk an often lonely road as I stand alone amidst a chorus of faithful family members. But, I can say with absolutely perfect certainty that it has been worth every tear-filled moment. I have had a chance to finally feel things that I didn’t think were possible in this life except in fiction and I wouldn’t trade that for anything. If loneliness and rejection are the price I must pay to finally come to peace and experience the emotions and impressions that I have experienced; the absolute exquisite joy and pain that have rushed upon my like a river – even for a moment; then it is more than worth it for me.
For many of us, exiting Mormonism presents the quintessential crossroad of life – possibly the most difficult one that any individual faces. I don’t claim to know what the answer is for others. I can only share what I have experienced as I have faced the tide of familial estrangement as I have exited the tribe. My heart aches for each of us that may be forced to walk this lonely road. This is a situation that no one should have to face. Though our situations may differ in particulars but they often have the common thread of rejection, disappointment and abandonment. A few months ago I wrote something that reflected this feeling of abandonment… and the attendant longing to find what I had lost: solace, timelessness, a place that I could call my own sacred sanctum… a sacred ground.
To set up a context, the second half of the lyric is a hopeful expression of what the ideal would be for those of us that need solace and comfort – addressing this ideal as if it is embodied in the form of an approachable entity.
Looking Glass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCrzgS...
Eyes surround me
Staring pointedly inside of me;
A sea of faces mirroring
My fears become reality.
I rush to hide myself in shame
From their contemptuous stare – I can’t
Endure such painful judgment
This verdict is my cross to bear
(So long as I accept it)
Where is solace? Where is Timelessness?
Where is my sacred ground?
Where’s my hallowed sanctuary
Where I’ll feel safe and loved?
A darkened Looking Glass reflects
A someone I can’t see in me
These eyes and faces that surround me
Will not love who stands before them…
(Can’t they see?)
When will being who I am
Be good enough for anyone?
When dark Looking Glasses shatter,
Maybe then I will be loved…
A face emerges from the crowd
A healing hand touches my face.
A question: Could this be someone
Who shares my secret judgment?
A friend, a confidant, a lover;
One who’ll hold me in embrace?
We find through tears of understanding
Our mirror image free from shame…
(You are my soul reflected)
You’re my solace, you’re my timelessness,
You are my sacred ground.
You are my hallowed sanctuary;
With you I know I’m safe and loved…
You are my Looking Glass reflecting
All that I can see in me.
Through you the faces that surround me
Become distant memories…
(I see so clearly…)
Through you I have found myself.
Now I know I’m good enough.
Darkened Looking Glasses shattered;
I’ve found freedom in your love…
You’re my solace, you’re my timelessness,
You are my sacred ground.
You are my hallowed sanctuary;
I’ve found freedom in your love…
It is my deep and sincere hope that each of us can find that solace – that sacred ground where the safety and security of absolute acceptance of the beautiful totality of the divine individual will envelope each of us in its protective peace and contentment.
Your fellow sojourner;
| My main gripe with raising my kids in the church is that they will be taught to feel more guilt and shame than I think they should. In my youth, I was taught to feel guilty for hundreds of innocent, essentially harmless things.
In fact, yesterday I was exposed to another lesson about how we're all sinners in the hands of an angry God, but that Christ offers us forgiveness. Everyone in the class seemed to agree that we all "deserved" hellfire - except that Christ loved us enough to die for our sins.
Then there's the part of the lesson that separates mormons from most other christians: "so we have to do our part". Instead of rejoicing in forgiveness from God, the mormons routinely celebrate their ability to feel guilty for their imperfections.
A few years ago, I began to shed the part of me that believed I had to "do my part" by feeling guilty every other minute of the day. I began to reject guilt over occasional cups of coffee, sundays at the beach, unedited movies. I finally realized that I was killing myself with my drive to be perfect - especially when that meant doing what other people told me was perfect.
As I fed this guilt-free attitude, I began to find more joy in life. I stopped beating myself up and I started enjoying myself.
In order to square my new attitude with my religion, I began to emphasize Christ. I reasoned that most mormons were far too hung up on the law. I compared them to Pharisees who did not really understand the spirit of the law, and did not really recognize things like how Christ was the Lord of the Sabbath - so his servants could live the higher law while seemingly breaking the old standards.
If I made mistakes, I was forgiven - so long as my heart was in the right place. As long as I was loving my neighbor and my Creator, I had nothing to worry about. I was glorifying God all the time. I still felt the occasional pang of guilt, but I felt that Christ was powerful enough to forgive me when I made the wrong choice. I felt free, and I owed it to my Savior.
Slowly, I've come to a new idea: I had nothing to worry about anyway. I only felt like I needed to be forgiven because some jerk-off made me feel guilty for being me. Was I so bad?
Of course I made mistakes. Mistakes are part of life. Whenever possible, I could correct those mistakes or ask those I hurt to forgive me. But I didn't need the Creator of the Universe to forgive me for my every impure thought. I only needed to forgive myself.
Well, I decided to forgive myself. I am forgiven. Where did I get the power to forgive myself? I had it all along. If I am powerful enough to sin my way to hell, then I am powerful enough to forgive my way to heaven. My own power to be good is equal to my power to be evil.
No offense, Jehova. Maybe you bled and died for some sinners, but that aint me no more. I'm not a sinner. I'm just a dude who makes mistakes every now and then. I think I can clean them up myself. And if I can't? Well, I'll just accept that life is messy.
For those who still seek forgiveness for sins: I hope you find it. If you don't find forgiveness, I suggest you take another look at the "sin" itself.
| Falling into the general category of apostates, I have been confronted with the annoying term "you can leave the church, but you can't leave it alone" (the phrase). This term or some variation of it is spouted by TBMs almost as much as the term "I know Joseph Smith blah blah blah......". Lately, I have been discussing the process of leaving (we resigned almost a year ago) with my spouse and how that has affected our lives. I thought I would be able to get to a point were I would not talk about Mormonism and be able to couch it in the back of my mind, hence my hiatus in posting. As we have sorted out our ideas, the phrase keeps coming to my mind.
Here is why I think the phrase does in fact have an element of truth. For us and for the past 20 years we, like others in the forum, were TBMs. My DW and I have held most of the callings possible in the ward and a few stake callings. Sunday church attendance was mandatory for our family, no TV on Sundays unless it had a religious theme, Temple attendance, WoW, scripture study, family prayer, FHE, hopefully you get the idea, but this is important. The church was an all encompassing aspect of our lives, we ate, breathed, slept, Mormonism to its fullest. Our perception of our place on this planet was influenced by these behaviors and rituals.
Inevitably during the course of our lives, we will perform some stupid maneuver and leave a divot in our hide. Eventually, the pain of the injury is forgotten, but a scar will remain and will be constant source of conversation while hunting, fishing, and/or drinking (For those old enough remember Jaws?). All of the Mormon indoctrination does leave a mark that will forever be referenced as I go through my life, kind of like the aforementioned scar. I will discuss my life in terms of being in the church or being out of it. I will express my life in terms of liberation as I left the confines of the dogma. I will say things like, "We would have never done that while we were momos", or "Aren't you glad we got to sleep in today (Sunday)".
But where would we be without individuals like Jeff Ricks, Richard Packam, Ken Clark, Bob McCue who could leave the church but not leave it alone? How would we cope without support from Crime Dog, Peter_Mary, Hypatia, Dogzilla, Hueffenhardt (sp?), Born Free, and so many others who left but could not leave it alone? We definitely would find other ways to cope, but don't those individuals make it a lot easier?
So with regard to "the phrase", I guess it is true. I can leave the church but not leave it alone.
| We all have unique experiences in Mormonism, and we all felt different things. I spent 3 years studying law, specifically negotiation strategies, so that's the filter and lens I see Mormonism through.
In every negotiation, each party is trying to create leverage. The superior party intimidates the other party, creates more leverage, or holds the hammer. Mormonism is no different than any other business negotiation. Leverage doesn't have to be real, just perceived. Parties can create false leverage. For example, many clients are shocked to find out that they can negotiate better terms with financial institutions because the bank needs them more then they need the bank. But banks are good at intimidating people, therefore making the customer feel lucky to get a loan. I only say that to introduce the concept of leverage and how it relates to Mormonism, because I am not in the business of giving advice on internet forums about how to deal with banks.
One thing I have recognized in Mormonism in retrospect is the creation of the sin myth. It creates leverage - giving "the" church the hammer. If we are trained to think we are weak and sinful, and every time we 'fall down' we need to go to God for forgiveness through an advocate such as Jesus or, in the worst case, the bishop, we will always be the weaker party. We learn to seek approval from a source that cannot give it. And we will always need "the" church. We are trained to be grateful that Jesus is so forgiving. And we become dependent on forgiveness.
The trouble is, nobody really knows if we are every really forgiven. So if there is ever any twinge of guilt, our training has instilled a voice that says, "You must be doing something wrong." People who are in abusive situations eventually learn to abuse themselves, even when their abuser is not around. Mormons are no different. If we ever felt any guilt over something in the past, we conclude that we must have done a poor job repenting. We become more dependent on 'forgiveness,' the other side of the sin myth coin. Since sin is a myth, extrinsic forgiveness is also a myth.
NOTE: I'm not saying that once we decide we no longer believe in the 'plan of salvation' that anything goes, that we can murder and lie and rape. Quite the opposite. We are no longer held to extrinsic standards. We our now held to our own moral compass, and some of us find that when we live by our own compass, minus the oppression of Mormonism, we are better equipped to live up to ideals that we hold.
As long as we accept the myth of the atonement, we will always be the weaker party. We will always be trying to make up for our sins. We will always be backpedalling. And we will always be seeking approval. Not every exmo is a people-pleaser. Some of us are exmos precisely because we refused to be doormats. Some of us are here because we got tired of being doormats, and we are learning a new way to deal with life.
Those of us who took Mormonism literally were likely constantly seeking approval. We knew that we had sinned in some way. Even if we didn't rob or kill somebody, and even if we lived our sex lives so that we could truly say we were temple worthy, we still might have an evil thought. We might get offended. We might get angry at somebody in traffic. In fact, chances are the more oppressed we were in our daily lives, the more likely we were to have little blow-ups, temper tantrums that make us feel just as guilty as if we had been smoking crack with hookers, selling drugs under the bridge, and causing pile-ups by throwing bricks off a bridge over the freeway. An unkind word, an impure thought. Oh, how horrible it could make us feel.
We might miss a day of scripture reading. We might fall asleep before reading our Book of Mormon, or we might have neglected magnifying our calling. No matter how careful we were, we were trained to believe that deep down, we would never really be able to live up to the ideals we were taught. And for some of us, it was devastating.
So we became dependent on the Mormon church, our bishop, daily scripture study, priesthood blessings to help us be more obedient, and magnifying our callings. We paid, prayed, and obeyed. We became more giving. We made another batch of cookies.
Of course, we could never get over the fact that we were human. And sooner or later, we knew we'd fall short.
The false leverage that Mormonism (and in a much wider spectrum, Christianity) created made us dependent on the LDS church - forever. Once we start to see how it was all a myth, and once we start living up to ideals that we can live with (whatever that means to the individual) we start to see that we are not constantly weighed down by guilt.
Here's an example of what it's like to live without guilt for those of us who are still in the process of discarding Mormon myths. My wife and I eat a lot of Asian food. We go to the Asian market and buy rice about once a month. When I carry the 20 lb bag up the stairs to our home, it gets heavy those last few steps. Once I set it down, I feel instantly better. Now, if I were wearing a backpack of 20 pounds all the time, I would be almost ineffective. I would tire easily, be cranky for no apparent reason, and most of all, the insidious nature of the backpack would mean I'd get used to having it there. After a while, I wouldn't even notice it.
What if somebody told me I could take that backpack off? Hey, it's my backpack. Back off, buddy! That might be my initial reaction. I've been told by my church that I need this backpack.
But what if I took it off? I would suddenly realize how I had been weighed down for years by something that was completely unnecessary. Suddenly, I have more energy. Suddenly, I don't get cranky for no apparent reason. I don't have those unexplained aches and pains.
That's what it's like when we go through the shedding process of leaving Mormonism. It's mirrored everywhere in nature. Caterpillars become butterflies. Trees turn brown and lose their leaves. But in the spring, they sprout flowers and they are beautiful.
In the Autumn of our Mormonism, things can look ugly. We might lose a friend and in the most extreme cases some of us have faced divorce. We might not be able to imagine life with 'the' church, and we certainly cannot imagine life without it. But if we know that in the spring, the flowers are going to bloom - without any effort of our own - we would be able to let the old leaves go. We'd be able to step outside of the comfort of the cocoon. We'd be able to take off those god-awful garments and put on some sexy panties (or boxers in my case).
And just as the old, dead leaves get raked up in the fall and new flowers bloom in the spring, we find that we have new friends who are actually making contributions to our lives.
I know that got a little longer than I planned.
| This has been therapeutic for me to write, maybe someone out their will take solace from it.
I was raised in the church by my mom. She dutifully and painstakingly took the children to church, and did her best to give us the opportunity to learn the values and doctrine she believed to be true. She was an incredible example of compassion, charity, humility, and patience. Dad was not a member. He almost never attended church, and on occasion, would challenge the “knowledge” that was asserted and disseminated there at home with his kids. He did his best to try to make us use our critical thinking skills. I was confident that with the traits she possessed, my mom was the one who had made the right choice.
Although my dad would make me think, his style was confrontational and looking back on it, it is clear that there was some emotional baggage that he brought to the discussion. I admired his logic and intellect, but rationalized that he was being deceived and that he was simply a lost cause in terms of conversion.
I attended church regularly, didn’t particularly enjoy it, but figured it was the thing to do since all my friends and neighbors were there. Most services came and went without much incident. Boring and slow were usually the orders of the day. Occasionally I felt like there was something fun, worthwhile or interesting. At church services there would be comments or ideas brought up that did not sit right in my young mind. As became my practice, I tried not to worry about it too much and went back about the routine. As I got older these concerns began to evolve into definite problems. “Why don’t prayers/blessings always work? Why should we pray for things when God knows what it best? Why would God help someone find their mitten, but allow innocent people to die in accidents, murders or wars? Why can’t women hold the priesthood?” Soon I was in seminary and the questions/doubts continued to mount. “Why does the policy that Blacks can receive the priesthood so conveniently coincide with the civil rights movement?What about all these wild statements that Brigham Young made that church seems to turn a blind eye toward? Why are our patriarchal blessings almost exactly the same/ Why are they so vague? Why must we bear a testimony to gain a testimony?”. Every time these problem issues were mentioned I began to cringe and try to stuff the uncertainty and doubts further back, and rationalized that the answers would make sense in an eternal perspective, but that our mortal minds cannot comprehend the explanation.
I was enmeshed in Mormon culture all my young life. I lived in a Mormon neighborhood, It was all I knew. Most of the concepts and teachings they emphasized seem like good advice; Do good to your neighbor, don’t use harmful/addictive substances, wait until your married for sex, forever families. Surely all of these good people couldn’t be wrong? I reasoned that it was impossible to know for sure. In the end I would comfort myself with thoughts like; It’s a good way to live, nobody can “know” anything for sure, science has been wrong before, etc. I figured that I could continue to live as a member by trying to exercise faith and hoping for the best.
I met my wife in high-school and soon we were young and in love. We were virtually inseparable for the next few years. I wanted to spend every waking moment with her and she returned the sentiment. We went hiking, fishing, and camping together. If we weren’t outdoors, we were at her parents’ house or mine. She came from a highly active LDS family. We often went to church together, we read scriptures together, we went to firesides and conference together. For the most part I didn’t share many of my deepest concerns about the church with her. I figured that we all had issues and problems with the church and that if I ignored them long enough they would simply vanish, and we could live our lives as we planned to and as the church expected us to.
Soon I was missionary age, but I wasn’t willing to serve a mission. I simply wasn’t dedicated enough to give up two years of my life. The idea of giving up the out-of-doors and my girlfriend to spend two years knocking on unreceptive doors was simply not attractive enough. When I decided not to go, my girlfriend was disappointed and relieved at the same time I think. I saw myself as being too selfish and worldly. I was ribbed a bit here and there by some member friends and family, but nothing that I couldn’t handle. We continued to have a close relationship and she was soon ready for marriage, while I needed another year or two to be ready. Ready I was at the tender age of 21 and she at 22.
I had prepared myself for the highest level of spirituality on this earth. I was worthy. I was ready for the temple. Soon the endowment began. It was the strangest event of my life, the clothes, the vows, the chanting. This was the spiritual event I had waited my whole life for? Nobody else seemed surprised. Nobody else thought this was ridiculous. I couldn’t believe it. I kept waiting for them to bring out the goat, place it on the alter and pass out the daggers. I looked around the room and said to myself “Are they all hypnotized?”. The rational part of my mind realized, “No wonder they bring your family and friends along, they want to pressure you into doing something you would never stick around for on your own”. I felt tricked. I was ashamed. I wanted to run out of that room forever and tear off the ridiculous clothes, but realized that I would be walking away from the love of my life forever, as she sat across the aisle from me.
Years passed and I did as I had become accustomed, and stuffed the doubts and concerns deep. I simply did not allow myself to think about them. This was the life I have chosen, I couldn’t let my wife and my family down. I just had to face the music and try not to let it bother me. We started having children soon, and our family continued to go to church. Narrow minded comments and doctrinal issues caused me to wince in my meetings each week. The cognitive dissonance continued to take its toll. There were days when I was physically ill when I was teaching about subjects that deep down I simply could not subscribe to.
It’s amazing to me that I as able to function and force the “negative” thoughts and questions from my mind perpetually. For so long I had been afraid of the consequences of really searching and questioning that I hadn’t allowed myself the opportunity. As my oldest child approached the age of baptism I found myself drifting into these thoughts more and more. Perhaps it was that I was forced to ride the bus for several months and there was simply nothing I could do to distract myself. No radio, no television, no conversation. Perhaps it was a mind at the breaking point, faced with the reality that “I” would be bringing my daughter into this mindset officially. Whatever the cause, I couldn’t handle the doubts anymore. I knew it was time to finally let my wife in on the depth of my problems with the church. One cold,gray day in January 2007, I stood at the bus stop and cried knowing that I was going home to tell my wife, and my marriage might soon be over.
I told her everything that night and we both cried. I knew I was breaking her heart. Our family might never be the same. We agreed that I would study the Book of Mormon. This time when I read it though I would do so neutrally. I would evaluate it as I would any other document. I was never really convinced that I could trust feelings and emotions, but I tried to pray for an answer anyway, hoping for something so certain it could not be doubted. Nothing. As I read the book I was only struck with the fact that it was repetitive and boring. I finished. Nothing.
I was getting nowhere and felt that I needed to examine evidence for, and against the church. I reasoned that the truth can stand up to scrutiny. What I soon discovered after checking reference after reference of the dreaded “anti” material is that a very high percentage of it was… factual. Why were we instructed not to look at this material? Because it was damaging to testimonies? Church History, especially about Joseph Smith was shocking. Why were we supposed to look up to this man? The version of events I had been taught in church and seminary left out so much information that it barely resembled the full disclosure I was learning. The evidence kept piling up. The book of Abraham, Polygamy, Polyandry, Kirtland Bank, it all began to register. The problems I had with the church all along weren’t mine, they were the church’s. It was a fabrication.
I was done with the dissonance. I was relieved, exuberant, and angry. I basked in the beauty of newly found freedoms and thoughts. No more fear, no more guilt.
Life at home continues to be tenuous. My wife and I struggle for closeness and intimacy. I have made it clear that I would like to indulge in an occasional drink away from home. My wife has drawn a line in the sand and indicated she might leave if that's what I do (But of course she's not forcing me not to drink). We continue to have disagreements about the way the children should be raised. For now we have settled on one week at church with mom, one at home with dad. At home we do science activities/experiments and nature hikes. The kids as I expected, are doing just fine.
Unfortunately for me, I cannot leave TSCC in the rear-view as my wife is terminally mired in it. I can only hope she derives some comfort and happiness from it.
It's been over a year, and what a journey it has been. I look forward to thoroughly enjoying my turn on this little oasis of life called earth. There truly is so much to experience and learn, and so little time.
| I was born in southern Utah in an active LDS family, I am in my early thirties, married (in the temple) with currently 2 kids, and served a stateside mission. I currently live in Utah County and I have recently become inactive with the purpose of eventually leaving the church all together.
I have served in many callings, EQP, Exe Sec, High Council, and many others. I did fit the TBM stereotype quite well. That is until 2007 when my so-called "shelf" of questions and doubts finally broke under the strain. I have been told from many past church leaders that many of my questions were unanswerable right now, that I just needed to put them on a "shelf" and God would answer them in His due time. Well that worked, for a while, until more and more questions kept coming with no end in site.
Then in early 2007 when I became obsessed with the Mountain Meadows Massacre and I began to study it at length I soon began to feel the strongest question bother me so much that my very own shelf eventually broke me in two. I did as many of you did, I turned to the apologitics, FAIR & FARMS. That brought me a great deal of temporary satisfaction, with an empasis on temporary. I quickly began to see that many of the apologitcs were using any means possible to justify their beliefs, even if it meant to be dishonest.
I have moved on. This experence has, at times, been one of the most horrible experiences I have ever been through. But through it all, I haven't missed a single day and took in a peaceful quiet moment to myself and thought, "Whew...I'm glad I learned it now rather than much later." Even though I do wish that someone would have brought this to my attention much earlier (like before I went on a mission or went through the temple!). But I'm not really sure if I would have listened anyway.
Anyway, long story short, I haven't offically left the church yet. My wife and my oldest are still attending church all the time and I need to keep my family together as best I can for now. My marriage is still in great shape. My relationship with my immediate family is shaky at best. I do wish that was different. Oh well.
| My personal Exit Process from Mormonism. How do I conduct myself now that I am no longer a Mormon?
How do others conduct themselves and what kinds of choices do I make?
My personality and my initial reactions fall in the laugh and enjoy life category. That was my first reaction to the real story of the claims of Mormonism. Snickering, laughing, and then patting myself on the back for knowing that I really was OK all along. It was not me. It was the religion that was a little "kooky."
In my process I have made some observations: cult used re: LDS Church as hate speech, bigoted term,
name calling, insulting offensive terms like TSSC, Morgbots, vulgarity, loved ones called body parts, etc.etc.etc.
My "Exit Process from Mormonism" required that I ask myself some important questions and make some clear definitions and decisions about what kind of a person I am going to be now that I am no longer a Mormon. Just because some religious rules were eliminated, can I govern myself in a civil, rational, reasonable, adult fashion?
I realized early on that if I used insulting terms it would be very hurtful to the very people I love the most.
I have had a hard enough time trying to show the difference between being "anti Mormon" and being for Freedom of Religion, and Full Disclosure for Informed Consent.
We have a legal right to our religious choices in this country. Everyone does. No matter how odd the religion might sound to one person, it is an integral, important part of someone else. I know, I lived it. How am I now going to honor that?
It is always easier to be negative, nasty, hateful, (the list is endless) and "line up and smell arm pits. ! Getting the "dirt" on someone is a national sport. The gang mentality of "you dissed me so I dissed you back"' is taking the place of civility and decency. Making "nice-nice" rarely even makes the newspaper as news!
In my "exit process from Mormonism" I determined, early on that I needed to be cognizant of how what I say (especially on the Internet - that sticks like super glue), takes a tole and effects me and my family, loved ones, and friends. Does it contribute positiv | |