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THE MORMON CURTAIN
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2008 Exmormon Foundation Conference Oct. 17 - 19, 2008
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The time is flying! And time to remind everyone again about the Exmormon Foundation coming up October
17-19, 2008.
Please join us for our annual weekend of education, enlightenment, personal stories, and mingling with a group of interesting and brave people who are exploring life after Mormonism.
Embassy Suites Hotel, Salt Lake City, UT Click here for details: http://www.exmormonfoundation.org/200....
Amazing line up of activities and speakers for 2008, including Steven Hassan - mental health counselor and expert on cults!
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EX-MORMONISM SECTION 8
Total Articles:
50
A very large selection of posts made by those in recovery from Mormonism. Culled from throughout the Ex-Mormon Communities.
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I have observed that our experiences in Mormonism are often very, very different.
How we internalize and analyze them and the conclusions we come to in the exit process are very different also.
I loved being a Mormon, for the most part. I enjoyed most of my "callings," especially in music conducting, Roadshows, directing, writing, doing theater productions, writing scripts, etc. I enjoyed the social environment, going to Firesides, and other activities also.
I do think I joined a little different kind of church in the 60's though than what I hear about here. . Some of you might be from my era.
It appears that today, there are more restrictions, less openness, the Golden Days of Mormonism seem to be gone and replaced by more controlling and more restrictive rules, policies, regulations etc. . We actually had discussions in those days! Nobody would have even thought about the number of ear piercings. Many of us had two or three.
I had my share of renegade leaders with their mantle of their calling --halo askew, gross stupiditis, crazy making nut cases, as well as fun picnics, firesides, fun banter with some of the people, joking, and socializing and learning new skills and expanding my knowledge in lots of subjects.
Interestingly, talking to some of my Christian friends, and relatives, they had similar experiences in the congregations: the good, the bad, the ugly came as a total package! It was not exclusive to Mormonism, just a little different. They could oust a minister/pastor, and/or go to another congregation and it was just find to do that.
Those were the days when we really studied--"Out of the Best Books"(three book series) was one class, as well as other country's cultures and other subjects. We had a variety of classes where learned skills in quilting, sewing, first aid, self defense, etiquette, fashion and on and on.
We had experts come to the RS classes. We had a mechanic come to teach us how to care for our vehicles, check and add oil, water,change a tire, etc. We had a financial planner come to talk to us about how to handle household/family finances. We had a funeral director come to talk to us about our options and how they work and what they cost.
That is the LDS Church I attended in three states, in several stakes and wards.
So, if you didn't attend that kind of LDS Church in those days, it is understandable that your experiences are going to be much different than mine.
| 1) The self-righteous insurance salesman, and Stake President. He stands before you in an expensive white shirt, dark suit, and shiny shoes. While trying to sell you insurance, he always mentions the "importance of the Gospel in my life."
2) Bruce McConkie behind the pulpit. His hair looks like a brush, and his voice sounds like the rushing of many waters. He admonishes, chastises, belittles, and quotes with authority. He is a figure of fear and loathing, an image you would not wish to face in the eternities.
4) The poor missionaries in the MTC, walking around when they get two minutes off. They are depressed and lonely, but they smile, and tell those who recognize them how goddam happy they are.
5) The little old ladies in my parents' ward--beautifully done white, hair, expensive dresses, and firm testitmonies. In truth, these ladies went through the grinder when they were young. Growing up a woman in Mormondom is not easy. They are, in their own way, pretty tough cookies.
6) People standing in line to shake "the Prophet's " hand. They dutifully await their turn. They are eager, and so excited to tell everyone they just shook hands with God's representative and spokesman. There is something cultish and sad about it.
7) Returned missionaries in science classes at BYU. They come to class armed with their scriptures, and rush to the front of the class to dispute evolution with the professor. They eagerly turn pages, and let the professor know where he is wrong.
8) The exhausted, harried young mother, sitting in sacrament meeting with her brood. One kid sits on her lap, another is off the her side, eating Cheerios out of a plastic zip loc bag. Her day of rest has been hellishly hard, and there is still one meeting to go. She smiles wearily, and cries to herself.
9) Sitting in testimony meeting, awaiting the next ridiculous performance. You never know what you are going to get, and you wish that you could, somehow, have a change.
10) A bitter cold morning at BYU. Its 7:55, and you are late to class. You parked way off campus to avoid paying parking fees, and your face and ears are numb with cold. You are just about to the door of the Joseph Smith Building, and the flag ceremony begins. Everyone stops, and waits for the music to end. No-one would dare keep walking.
11) Sunday in Provo, The town could not be more dead. Every now and then, a large surge of BYU students will emerge from their meetings, the girls wearing "granny dresses," and the boys wearing white shirts and dark slacks. Most clutch their scriptures, which have been unopened during the entire series of meetings.
Yup, I grew up a Mormon.
| My steps leaving Mormonism: from the FOG to ENLIGHTENMENT!
Some of my steps in the exit process from Mormonism-while writing all the way. From the very beginning, I found an outlet for my process and this board was one of them.
1. THE FOG-DAZE STAGE!
What the hell happened? Saw WHAT???
This is what happened while reading on line (Dr. Shades --to be exact) when I realized that there were no golden plates, no translations, the BOM was fiction, Joseph Smith Jr. told such a blatant whopper (while plagiarizing everything in sight) that it was preposterous and totally ridiculous. This was followed very, very closely by....
2. THE STUNNED HUMOR STAGE!
Oh My Holy Garments!
Millions of Mormons are still believing this whopper Joseph Smith Jr. told and paying 10% (minimum) for the privilege, while wearing regulation skivvies, and going to the temple doing bastardized Masonic rituals.
3. THIS IS NOT FUNNY STAGE:
What a cotton-picking minute here. This is not funny-funny-this is bizarre.
Every one of those scalawags, led by Joseph Smith Jr lied from the get-go and I am pissed! No -- not pissed, I am furious, enraged, damn angry and I am not going to be quiet about it either!
4.THE SPONGE STAGE:
Constant reading, can't get enough, have to know every last thing I can learn about Mormonism's history and how it functions from their own sources. What a hoot that is!
This is also the grateful stage for how they kept records. Those characters wrote everything down!
Hallelujah, pass the potatoes, I read while eating and went to bed and dreamed about it.
5. The HOLY COW STAGE!
This is amazingly intrusive stuff. They have trampled on my personal rights, my privacy, my naked body and told me it was what Heavenly Father wanted.
What was I thinking? Time to revamp that thinking!
6. THE SECOND "ONLY TRUE" HUMOR STAGE!
Mormonism is just too funny, goofy, outrageous to take seriously, except when they are killing people, of course.
7. THE SEPARATION STAGE!
This is where I examined my life, all of it; before Mormonism, as a convert, and as a totally immersed, believing Mormon and figured out what happened on a mental, psychological, and emotional level and took apart the layers of it's impact, both the negative and the positive.
Mormonism does (through it's leaders and members) what they do out of ignorance, (and a bad case of Gross Stupiditis) and for my own emotional well being, I extend compassion to them because they have no idea what they are doing. That is, after I have talked and written about their nonsense ad nauseum!
8. THE NEW WORLD VIEW STAGE: ENLIGHTENMENT!!
This the point where I have researched for hours, read books a couple dozen books, and read about other people's beliefs and decided what I wanted for myself, knowing it was an evolutionary process, and I could change my mind at any point.
Now, I call myself an Eccentric Eclectic because I like a little bit of a lot of beliefs, notions, ideas. Perhaps a lot of you are a lot like me.
I am part: AGNOSTIC:
This is safe and the most accurate. To say you are atheist is so politically incorrect, and unacceptable in this day and age that it is suicide to try to run for office, for instance, also, so many people believe that atheism is of the devil that many relationships are cut off before they begin because of this prejudice.
I find that calling myself an agnostic is preferable and works best for my own survival on many levels. Because I live in a predominant Judeo-Christian society (like most of us posting here) to be too far out of it causes more problems that it solves.
I am also part ATHEIST:
I have been known to say I am a "soft" atheist - taking the default position of non-belief in the unsupported theist claim of a God - which is not the same thing as taking the position of no gods.
I reserve the term: God for that which is currently unexplainable.
I am part SKEPTIC
I want a lot of verifiable information from state of the art sources before I add my allegiance. I do not automatically believe someone because of who they are, what they believe or just because they said so.
I am part HUMANIST
American Humanist - "Humanism is a progressive lifestance, free of supernaturalism, which affirms our ability and responsibility to lead meaningful, ethical lives that add to the greater good of humanity."
Again, I am not sure about the "supernaturalism" part, because I allow for all possibilities. Again, I want verifiable evidences.
I like a few Buddhist ideas also, and I stir all this up with a good dose of humor, satire, and just plain fun!
At this point, I have been on the outside of Mormonism for close to eight years.
My official resignation date from the Mormon Church is (get this -- could not have planned it) JUNE 27, 2002! What a way to celebrate the shoot-out at Carthage Jail!
In the exit process from Mormonism, I have become passionate about freedom of religion, full disclosure and informed consent and informed choice.
I have been shaped by some of the prevailing values in my prior beliefs in Spiritualism, Christianity and Mormonism, however, I can find no reason to believe that those values are exclusive to those beliefs alone.
My personal study and research showed clearly that there are thousands of gods, female ones long predate male ones and how would one choose? So many gods, so little time, so many heavens, so little time, so many myths, so little time.
It became apparent that we are mostly a product of the geography of our birth.
The closer I get to the end of my life, the more I realize that I do not need answers to where I came from and where I am going.
There are thousands of answers to those questions and not a one of them has any real evidences that satisfy the skeptic in me and I am not interested in just relying on faith. Been there done that, and it is unsatisfactory.
I prefer to place my faith in all things, just not in a supreme being, a God, (personalized or otherwise) or creator.
It is not necessary to my sense of well being, my self confidence, my self esteem, my self respect, or how I treat other people, or how I view my place in the world to subscribe to those beliefs.
It is, however, extremely liberating and freeing to know I am not bound by those old myths, teachings, beliefs and am free to think and believe anything I wish without fear of recrimination from some outside source.
I am thrilled that I figured that out with enough years left to totally enjoy it!
| Today being Sunday, Dr. Mujun, the kids and I got up and went to Unitarian Universalist services in the morning. I hadn't attended there since Christmas Eve. UU's don't necessarily believe there is anything special about Sunday as opposed to any other day, but they do tend to go with that day for services. They also don't see any real cause for concern in the fact that I haven't been there for a month. They were just glad to see me this time around, and several friends shared hugs and kind words.
After getting home, my seven-year-old son wanted to go out and throw the football. We drove to a park next to the bay just a few minutes' from our home. It was a beautiful clear day, the temperature was about 60F and the sun was reflecting off the calm water. My son is getting better at catching the football. He has reached a point where he can catch 30-yard passes at least as reliably as I can throw them. He can't throw that far yet, so he prefers to punt back to me, which he does with remarkable accuracy. About a third of the time, I don't even have to move to catch the ball. Today, he was working on catching the ball while running, so he was asking me to lead him with my passes.
I never was much of a jock. I figure it's just a matter of months, if not weeks, until the only advantage I have over him is how far I can throw.
We were out there about an hour today. Yesterday, we were in the same spot throwing the football for about an hour and a half. He wears his Boise State sweatshirt, and we usually spend a few minutes during each session re-enacting the most famous plays from the Fiesta Bowl, defeating invisible Sooners time and again.
If there is a god, I can't imagine that he or she is really worried about our behavior on one particular day of the week more than the others. Personally, I do like the idea of devoting one day a week to family, to self-cultivation and to individual and collective efforts to make the world a better place. Sunday seems to work for that in our family. It's hard to believe that such a short time ago, I subscribed to a belief system that would have questioned the appropriateness of my activity today with my son, not that it would have left me any time on a Sunday afternoon anyway.
I'm all in favor of a weekly change of pace and change of focus, but what could be more worthy or ultimately more sacred than the time I spent throwing the football with my son today? It was no less so yesterday just because it was Saturday. I'm not averse to keeping the Sabbath day holy as long as I get to define what qualifies, but I'm a lot more interested in finding the sacred in every day.
| A Mormon from the Ward happened to call our home recently and in chatting, I was surprised when he brought up this incident, recounted below, from 1998 and how he felt about it. Apparently, he stood up for me. He said he was later "demoted" also. In over eight years, I have never heard from anyone in the ward about this incident!
It reminded me of what happened and why and how it is all part of a crazy-making bunch of past experiences.
It was so nice to hear from someone who was there and knew all about it!
This is the story as I recount it several years ago when putting my "story" on a little web page.
Some of it was sent in a letter to the Ward also.
The LAST STRAW!
This is my last absurd experience with the Mormon Church. I had convinced my inactive daughter that going to church would never hurt you and we ought to go once in awhile.
This particular Sunday, we decided to use the woman's restroom. When we came out of stalls and were washing our hands and had pulled up our dresses to adjust our underwear, she saw a man in the double mirrors!
She alerted me while quickly putting her dress down. As I had dried my hands and no longer had my dress up, I approached him and told him it was inappropriate for him to be in the ladies room.
He went ballistic, got right in my face backing me up against a wall as he said he had PERMISSION as he always came in to help his wife. He maintained that his wife would only let him help her in the restroom.
His wife was in a wheelchair and they were in the nursing room area that is adjacent to the wheelchair access toilet where she was eating a cracker and they had the sound up on the piped in Sunday School Lesson.
When I told him he would have to leave, he grabbed his wife's wheel chair and proceeded to shove me through the double doors nearly knocking me over yanking her around tipping her back and forth in his attempt to shove me out of the way so he could get out. She remained absolutely silent through out all of this.
He left my daughter and I stunned and shaking. Fortunately, I was able to keep him from knocking me over and got the doors open so he could exit.
He said he was leaving, however, we found out a little while later that he had only exited the building to go outside and come back in the other door by the Bishop's office where he was telling them I had attacked him!
My daughter and I were very upset, adrenaline was pumping as I had been shoved through two doors by this out of control man when the counselor motioned for us to come inside the office and speak with him and them. Needless to say, we did not enter.
When we came running and yelling out of the bathroom, a "sister" told us that this was the Lord's house and we needed to be Reverent! I could not believe my ears.
It is important to note here that this man proclaimed himself as his wife's sole provider and been taking care of her for over 20 years. She was covered from neck, to ankle, to wrist in clothing on a very warm spring day. I have worked with the elderly and assisted living and this kind of attire is suspect and warrants further investigation, especially when he maintained that she would not allow anyone else to assist her.
One of the counselors kept saying: "CALM DOWN OR LEAVE, CALM DOWN OR LEAVE. Well, we left! Never to return.
The women and men of the church said that it was just fine for that man to be in the woman's restroom. He was there to help his wife. And besides, he would never LOOK.
This man had access to the women's restroom anytime he pleased, he was NOT helping his wife, she was having a snack in the nursing mothers area taking up all the room so others could not use the room. He could hear all conversations and watch women and children exiting what they thought was a private woman's toilet area as he was behind the side wall where he could not be seen, lurking!
And this is not inappropriate? That complete lack of reason and logic and common sense is just unbelievable. We subsequently found out there are no laws on the books in our county to enforce about use of bathrooms on private property
http://hometown.aol.com/sllestodd/myhomepage/profile.html
About nine months later, I happened to go to a yard sale at the counselor's home. I didn't realize it was his home until he came up to me in the drive way and said something about the incident and how it was handled. Apparently it has been bothering him all that time. I am not sure, but I think he was apologizing for how it was handled! ;-)
Have the rest of you found that apologies are difficult to get in the LDS Church from members and leaders? I can recall, maybe three or four!
Usually, as in one incident that I experienced, I was told to apologize for something I didn't do! That is in the story of my last bishop throwing a fit, pounding the table, and releasing me from a "calling" !
For years and years I kept giving the priesthood, the members, the church, one more chance -- thinking there was something wrong with me. After all, "the church is perfect, the people aren't" kept being repeated to me and I was to forgive them and even apologize!
I recalled the story in the Bible of Jesus on the cross. It was my savior Jesus Christ that I could emulate. He said to forgive them for they know not what they do.
I eventually internalized that scripture to mean that I could have compassion and understanding for people who were doing strange, outrageous weird things in the name of Mormonism and the priesthood. Humans quite often,didn't know what they were doing.
No matter how they treated me, I could have compassion, not hate, make no moral judgment. At that time, I believed in leaving that to God - judge not that you not be judged, etc.
Growing up, I had learned to find the humor in life. The one asset I knew I could rely on was my sense of humor and the ability to see "funny" in the most absurd things. I am sure that kept me sane as a Mormon and leaving Mormonism. I finally understood the old saying about insanity: "insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result"...!!! Hmmm. I needed to do something about that!
Several notions and principles of human behavior have remained in my world view, long after leaving Mormonism, as principles that are valuable. They are valuable and useful whether they are attributed to a religious figure, a savior, a God, or not.
They deal with human behavior; methods of how humans deal with other humans, with a way that I can make lemonade out of lemons, as they say.
Mormonism was a mixture of the "good the bad and the ugly"!
I learned about how to deal with the most egregious, bizarre, strange, unreasonable behavior from people which has been very valuable to me since!
My sense of humor in how I see the world was developed when I was very young. At a 50 year reunion of our high school graduating class, it was the importance of laughter that showed up in my statements in our 8th grade school pamphlet; my goals in life were about laughing and enjoying life. I had not seen that book in about as many years and had no idea that I had written almost the same thing about the same question 50 years later... ..what are you doing now; laughing and enjoying life.
I am sure that quality in my thinking process is what triggered my laughter response to finding out that Joseph Smith Jr had told a "whopper." I still laugh about it.
As a Mormon, that laughter (laugh out loud-belly laugh) with it's temple covenant to avoid all lightmindedness and loud laughter, was stifled and it sure was missed!
What is self evident, with a good majority of former Mormonism is their ability to see the humor in Mormonism. The Salamander site is huge. There are parodies, almost daily on the board, and funny comments. It is coping mechanism tha, for me, is much preferable to anything else.
Many former Mormons find the "recovery" process is given a healthy boost with humor, and the satire, and parody, hundreds of Slamtoons, and funny essays, songs, stories, etc. just keep rolling in.They never cease. And that's "a good thing" !
It seems to be almost an automatic response for many!
It processes the good, the bad, the ugly and gives it all an outlet for dealing with what happened and why.
That is why I wrote the Christmas Letters and Newsletters Parody. It was a way for me to see Mormonism with humor and not take it all so seriously. Besides, that is such a "downer."
All the hate and anger and bitterness and judgments are gone, when I think "funny" and I much prefer it! I am convinced that one of the best things I could do for me, is to laugh at myself. It takes the sting out of the hurt and pain.
| Immediately after admitting to myself what I'd been fearing for months, that Mormonism was a lie, I was filled, almost supernaturally, with the strongest sense of purpose and power I'd ever experienced in my life. It was undeniable and beyond my ability to alter or ignore. I knew, without a doubt, that I would save my girls from the clutches of Joseph Smith's cult, no matter the cost or personal loss I might experience.
The realization that the church wasn't true was so painful that it took my breath away. I was sick, miserable, I couldn't sleep or think of anything else. But somehow, at the same time I was experiencing a personal crisis, I had an overpowering instinct to save my daughters which superseded my own grief.
The minute after I told my husband that I knew the church was a fraud, I informed him I would never again step into a Mormon church service and that I refused to wear garments for another second of my life. I know the shock was difficult for him, but I'd been giving hints for months about my questions concerning church doctrine and history. Telling him that I wouldn't raise my daughters as Mormons was infuriating to him - but I meant it. They were young and not fully entrenched in the cult and I felt it was not responsible for me to give them a choice to harm themselves by continued involvement with a cult.
I told DH he could take them to church every other week, but that was all. And they wouldn't be getting baptized. My husband was understandably extremely upset and threatened divorce. He did leave the house and call a lawyer, but I wasn't swayed. He could go or stay, but I wouldn't be moved from my position. I can honestly say I've stayed with him through very difficult times and usually put my needs or desires in last place in order to preserve the peace in my family, but this was an exception. I can be stubborn, but my determination to free my daughters from Mormonism was beyond stubbornness. It was the singular focus of my life at the time. Nothing else mattered more, not even my marriage.
Not everyone has the same reaction when they find out they've been lied to their entire life, I understand that. The intensity of my own feelings and the amount I was willing to risk on behalf of my children surprised even me but there was no equivocating - get them out of the cult or lose everything trying. They are all happily non-Mormon now and so is my husband. My risk taking and drawing a line in the sand payed off for me. It may not work the same for other people, but for me, I wouldn't, I couldn't, have done it any other way.
Good luck to all of you struggling to free your families from Mormonism.
| Fresh faced mishies, middle-aged RS matrons, Mormon young women, and bishops are all well meaning and kind hearted, but they're also often stalkers.
Anyone who hasn't done so, might consider reading "The Gift of Fear," by Gavin de Becker. It's a quick read and is full of safety tips but also provides insight which can help exmormons recover and take charge of their lives.
A few thoughts from the book:
Stalking is any unwanted pursuit. Unwanted pursuers may escalate their behavior to include such things as persistent phone calls and messages, showing up uninvited, and enlisting friends or family in the campaigne.
If you tell someone ten times that you don't want to talk to them, you are talking to them nine more times than you wanted to.
A stalker's strategy might include acting pathetic to exploit a victim's sympathy or guilt.
Often the niceness of a rejection is seen by the stalker as as possible acceptance.
Anyone who chooses not to hear the word "no" is attempting to control the person saying it.
The worst response when someone fails to accept "no" is to give ever-weakening refusals. That gives away power and puts the stalker in charge.
Actions are more credible than words. Better to find a way to show refusal than to merely state it.
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I put up with mormon stalking at my house for literally decades in the mistaken belief that it would eventually wane. It didn't and it damaged my marriage, my recovery from mormonism, and my family life.
If I had it to do over, I would have firmly stopped it about 25 or 30 years earlier than I did.
Mormons tend to be wimpy when they are called on their stalking behavior. If push comes to shove, they do back down, but they do it more readily if they aren't given a foothold and it doesn't become a pattern.
I don't know what I'd do if I lived in Utah where every neighbor was involved in trying to force me into their church. Probably, I'd move. But I've learned the hard way that I must never again put up with continued longterm harassment in my own home, and I suggest others should stand up for themselves as well.
Of course many people might not mind continued attention from cults such as JWs or mormons. That's fine. They don't need to worry.
Finally, Mormons when they're stalking, can be like wolves. Once they've put in time and effort on a victim, it's as if they've tasted blood and they don't want to give it up. Better to stand strong and say no and mean it the first or second time. Not doing so, gives away privacy and personal freedoms to a rejected cult and its deluded followers.
| I have tried to recover and protect my relationships as best as possible, negotiating Mormonism with countless, failed strategies -- testing different approaches -- sometimes only reacting, just as I would turn in bed, never able to rid myself of back pain, but always hoping for some comfortable position. But I am at the point where I will just be free and open and let go of the consequence. Though a relation may say, "I've lost a brother," I will keep the door open. I will not attack or invade ... but if they bring up the topic, I will join in, as is natural, normal, and healthy. I know full well that there are consequences for having an identity. These consequences, however, are not as bad as existing as the cardboard cut-out of their expectations. Why prefer that Mormon pseudo-relationship to this Ex-Mormon non-relationship? If I am not going to exist either way within their expectations, why not still exist myself -- as my own authentic self? It is an unfortunate choice, but it is not my choice. It is theirs.
After a few bewildering encounters, I accept the consequences: in breaking with their inherited script for my behavior, THEIR confusion breaks out ... and they must withdraw from the agents of that confusion: my true self -- but they even withdraw from the actualizers of their own Mormon doctrine! An uncle of mine acted out the original Mormon script and had a polygamous marriage, and rather than accept his insistence on attending the family reunion, they canceled it so as not to be "infected". At no point can reality, and the free and open conclusions based upon it, enter their equation -- no matter how good or evil. Their only reality is the inherited script of behavior. (The doctrine only has a cameo appearance.)
I remind myself of this, so that I don't mis-interpret their defensive behavior as the hatred it only appears to be. They don't hate us: they are afraid of not being able to keep the Mormon drama alive because one of the "actors" has just stepped off the stage, stepped out of costume and character
became herself -- and, horror of horrors, kept talking! House security is now scrambling down the aisles and the actress either stops playing herself or is thrown out of the theater of consciousness.
Welcome to ex-theater. It is on the outside that we are real and free. They are always welcome to join us. But if we give in, and re-enter their confusion, there is a price: we exist as a mask for the sake of those who demand it. What kind of relationship is that?
And if we then throw our expectations upon them? What have we learned? To love them, we must let them be themselves. If their decision looks something like hatred toward us, we are mistaken. It is only fear and confusion. I accept it. Let the play go on, impromptu -- but this tug of war of expectations -- this insistence upon this or that consequence hooks into their misunderstanding on the one end and into ours on the other. Neither can be free, neither can be authentic, when a mask is imposed
"or else!"
The relationship, positive or negative, is two-way. I accept them without casting my expectations upon them, but refuse to don the mask of their expectations. If they want a true relationship, they must accept my true self. The other half to this choice, then, is not mine, but theirs. I will endure mutually respectful silence, when we cannot delight in mutual openness, but none of this one-sided respect wherein I coddle their need for my non-existence. There is no other way. I cannot become myself and live according to their expectations. And I cannot become myself and force my expectations upon them! I must let go of the consequences. They are free of my expectations, just as I am free of theirs. Only then is an authentic relationship possible.
Either we make masks for each other or we love each other enough to be open with each other
or one of us becomes who we already are, and the other walks away as if an authentic relationship were some sort of crime. Openness may work out. But it may not. In most cases it ends in a wall of cold and formal politeness. Being open, is a gamble on the relationship. But authenticity is certain.
| As a boy, growing up as the oldest of four children, one of the great events celebrated in our world of kid-dom was the feast on Thanksgiving Day. My two younger brothers and I would place bets before the meal to see who could eat the most plates of food. The requirement was that they be full plates, no stuffed celery with a dollop of stuffing, these had to be fully laden in order to qualify.
One year I managed to eat eleven plates full of food, which rendered me in pain and bloated, yet the victory of this gastronomical triumph was mine. As I lay on the floor writhing in painful victory, I felt full, and satisfied.
As a Mormon boy, I was always hungry for the answers. I was the kid in every primary and Sunday school class who could spout off the answers to the questions posed by my teachers. At times, this annoyed me as I would be the only one answering, but I answered nonetheless. As each lesson was taught, I wanted to know more and more of the subjects taught me. I would ask questions and listen to the responses, all the while feeling the passing self-satisfaction of knowing the answers, yet through it all it was never enough, I needed more; I was starving.
There came a time in my teen years, when I felt that my questions could not be answered. No matter who I asked, I could not get the answers which satisfied and fed my inner hunger for more. I was starving for more information, but all I could find were tofu laden responses which in the end left me empty.
I entered my mission experience with the hope that my answers would be found there. Surely, I would have the inspiration, experiences and instruction, which would feed my inner hunger. The temple did not do it. The MTC did not do it. The vast and at times complex discussions with my German investigators did not do it. My college educated, CES director Mission President did not do it, and in the end my mission left me with a greater hunger than when I began.
Following my mission, I continued my attempts to find ways to satisfy my hunger. I read and studied, and asked more questions. I sought out materials which I was told held the answers to satisfying my inner hunger, yet through it all I remained empty and starving. I read apologist responses, official church pronouncements and doctrine, yet in the end the pangs were there, and slowly I began to resign myself to the notion that hunger was simply going to be part of my life, no matter where I went.
Then one cold February night after many years of severe hunger, I decided that I needed to be satiated at all costs, and I would go wherever I could to find the nourishment I desired. I found an all night buffet of knowledge, whereby I began to gorge myself. Soon my heart and mind were covered with my newfound nourishment, which satisfied with every thought, word and expression. I could not get enough. Page after page, essay after essay, day after day, night after night, week after week, I ate and ate until it seemed I could not consume another thought or morsel of knowledge.
As I rested in my chair following my knowledge filled gorge which rendered me in pain, with tear stained cheeks and satisfied yet bloated neurons, I was full and this spiritual and knowledge filled victory was mine. I was finally satisfied, my starvation ended. I had been liberated from my Auschwitz of the Mind, and I knew the satisfying and life giving truth.
| A thread about self-loathing got me thinking about that most pernicious of all Mormon doctrines: the natural man is an enemy to God.
As I understand it, whatever puts us in conformity to the church (and by extension, God's will) is good, whereas any desires we have to disobey the rules come from our natural man and thus should be denied and beaten down. Of course, what we are is the sum of our desires, so we grow up as Mormons loathing ourselves for simply desiring what we naturally desire. Mormon parents worry about their 5 year olds being impure by touching their penises, and those same 5 year olds sit through excruciating "worthiness" issues, terrified that the bishop will see through the facade and know that they gave into the natural man, as their mothers had worried.
But on the flip side, where do the "good" desires and feelings come from? Why, they're from God. Mormons hate it when people describe their testimonies as "feelings," because everyone who has a testimony knows that these feelings are way stronger than just ordinary feelings. Feeling "the spirit" is also an acceptable feeling, as is the desire to obey. Also, feelings of guilt are from God, as they motivate us to repent and go back to that positive conformity.
So, to recap:
- Good feelings that are in line with church teachings come from God.
- Other feelings (good or bad) that conflict with church teachings are from the natural man (or maybe even Satan).
When you're a believer, it's easy to sort out the sources of these feelings because in essence we insert an external source on them. It's not us: it's God, or Satan, or our natural bodies.
The point of this, I believe, is to make us more easily controlled. If we have no control over our feelings (and they're not really even ours, are they?), we must need someone else to control them for us. And here the church gladly steps in.
When we leave the church, we suddenly realize that the separation of feelings into God/good and man/bad no longer applies, and we wonder what exactly the source is for our feelings. What feelings are ours?
Of course, the answer is that they are ours, though we have been manipulated into responding to them the way the church wants us to respond. Real recovery, I believe, involves reclaiming our feelings and desires and losing the shame and self-loathing we feel for having them.
It's OK to desire, to lust, to dislike, to feel anger or hurt. And it's even better to own your feelings and refuse to give them up to anyone's control.
| I've been out of the Church 7 years. It's hard to believe, but a lot of time has passed and apparently quite a bit of healing. I think I really hated myself back then. I used to care a great deal what other people thought about me, and I would cringe in horror at any criticism of me that had any truth to it.
I've been scanning my childhood photos into the computer, and I've been realizing that I wasn't the ugly kid I thought I was. I was actually a really cute kid. There was a time when I couldn't even bear to look at those photos. I didn't like who I was or my personality, and I thought I was weird and there were people in the Church always confirming it. I've talked to lots of ex-Mormons who have experienced the same thing. What's funny is that today, I really like the person I've become and the things I like about myself are the very things I hated about myself when I was a kid.
I think it has to do with the combination of Mormon perfection and conformity mandates. Anyone who cannot become the ideal of an insurance salesman from the 1950's will never get anywhere in Mormonism. It's true - God is an insurance salesman, and the ultimate goal for Mormons is to become like that. Those who do have that sort of personality will really be in their element and feel good about themselves in that religion. I could never be that person, and I never wanted to be. For me, Mormonism was a living hell, marching toward an eternal reward that seemed more and more like a punishment the more I examined it. I hated - and I believe I was conditioned to hate - any personality trait in myself that departed from that goal. What a screwed up self image I had.
Today I'm able to laugh about myself, my interests, my political affiliation, my atheism, my hair, etc., and it only bothers me a little bit. Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough - and doggonnit people like me. hehe
Wow, what a mindjob that cult was.
| I had heard about all the evil people get up to when they leave the church. Surely, I would become a person of deep and dreadful darkness, full of evil, capable of only harm. I would walk in darkness, harm the faith of the faithful, lead the chosen away from the truth.
I must say I am stunned at how little I changed. Aside from the huge feeling of relief--freedom--I felt when I figured out its not true, nothing changed. I learned I was the same person, and that the only real influence the church had on me was guilt and fear--not basic morals.
My morality, or concept of it, has not changed. I did not run out and cheat on my wife. I did not become a drug addict, con man, chronic liar, cheat, or spreader of strife. I was pretty much the same person. Hell, I am a pretty boring fellow, all considered. There is precious little excitement in looking at my conduct.
Amazing! Morals don't really change, and neither does behavior. Yes, I like to hoist a schooner of malt now, but that has not hurt anyone . The only real difference between Mormons and non-Mormons can be found in talk, or attitude--not behavior. There are some very vicious and rabid Mormons--even though they warm a bench on Sunday.
The church does not change anyone . They are the same person, in or out of the fold. The arrogant remain arrogant, the vicious remain vicious, and the crooked remain crooked--with, or without the "true church."
| I have to get this off my chest as it still upsets me despite my recovery.
My baby sister, now in her late 40s, spent most of her life in the church. She was born with Angelman's Syndrome (aka Enfant Marionette - Puppet Child) and has been severely mentally handicapped, blind and paralysed. To this day she needs 24 hour care.
My baby brother, now in his mid 40s, was born with Downs, having been diagnosed as 'low grade' mental capacity. He has been in need of constant care throughout his life and has attended a wonderful school for the mentally handicapped until he came of age.
Mother raised 8 other children, all healthy but until she died was a full-time carer, with our help, of our brother and sister. She was a widow and in receipt of her own pension and government allowances for her charges. The government allowance (as she had Power of Attorney) together with her own pension put a considerable amount of money into mother's hands. This money was to pay for expensive care equipment, respite care and all the extra costs of taking care of two handicapped adults, as specially adapted vehicles, bathroom facilities and bed/bedroom had to be paid for also.
Because all three of them were tithed by the church, mother struggled to cover the basic living needs for her family, thankfully the rest of us were there to support her, though we were being tithed individually at that time.
We didn't find out quite how much the church had extracted from them until she died. We discovered that mother had been uber-TBM to the point where she'd been guilted into paying extra fast offerings etc. As a sick woman herself (she had cancer of the oesophagus) she became very depressed and even more dependant upon the church for moral support, despite which visiting teaching/home teaching was scant at best, coupled with the lack of church welfare systems here in England.
Despite all this our mother attended the temple regularly (paying extra respite fees to enable this) and discharged her callings with honour and great dignity. She was a woman of amazing faith, strength and love, who is greatly missed by us all. We know that her love for the true Jesus was paramount and had she discovered the lies of the church that knowledge would have destroyed her.
I struggled to see any of her qualities within the church environment and hell will freeze over before any of us do.
Wherever our mother is today, we are certain that she is at peace.
Long live Grace (yes - that truly is her name)
| These are some of my observations from different threads on RFM; I thought it would be an interesting exercise to put it all together, since there are so many insightful people with so many things to say about leaving, that I really wanted to see it all laid out.
Step One - Choosing the Red Pill
As a TBM, there will be a moment, and maybe more than one, when something catches your attention; something about the church doesnt quite add up. Something that you believe will not match something you learn; it is at this point your mind will reach cognitive dissonance, in that it cannot hold two conflicting truths simultaneously. You can react to this one of two ways: 1) bury the conflict by repeating over and over, I KNOW the church is true and shelving the uncomfortable topic or 2) Decide to look deeper, in search for real answers.
If you choose option #1, there is nothing more to discuss. You no longer think rationally about the church, and no amount of historical evidence, rational thought, or truth is going to change your mind. (And this is impressive; it takes a great deal of faith to believe in the doctrine and history of the Mormon Church.)
However, if you choose option #2, you should be fully prepared. The Mormon foundation is no sturdier than a house of cards; when you start to question and the cards holding up your belief start to fall, nothing will ever be the same again. The more you research, the more you find, and theres nothing like watching ten, twenty, thirty years of intense programming reverse in an instant. And you, too, are irreversibly changed from this moment on.
However, you must know that this truth comes at a very costly price; one that might be too high for some to pay. No matter how strong you think your family and friends ties are, they might not be strong enough to withstand what you have discovered. Marriages break up; spouses you love with all your heart will tell you that you are a tool of Satan, or an unrepentant sinner. Friends will turn their back on you to protect their own fragile belief, and you will be driven out of the church while being reminded that you have just forfeited your right to the CK and your eternal family. Your TBM extended family, and sometimes even children of your own, will not understand your decision, and you could end up alone; if not physically, certainly emotionally. Yet, for many, the lure of truth is stronger still than the lie of a perfect life in the Mormon world and afterworld.
Step Two - Untangling Yourself From the Church
Once you KNOW the church isnt true, it doesnt take long to find out the rest of the story. The most prevailing emotion is anger--anger at being duped, anger at wasted time, and anger at giving yourself so completely over to a lie. And as many have said, its usually not the casual, social Mormons who leave the church; it is usually the people who wanted the most for it to be true; who obeyed the rules, even the ones that changed from day-to-day, who did the research, who faithfully followed their callings, and through one of these avenues ultimately (and often, quite accidentally) discovered its deceit.
Those who are in the Mormon Church for the good that it does for the family, for a social network, or because theres more good there than bad sometimes dont care about the truth. The litmus test appears to be in the following question, posed by you, to the people in your life who are going to need to know about your new life:
Hypothetically, if I learned that the church wasnt true, would you want to know?
This can go one of two ways:
No
If this is the answer, then it honestly doesnt matter what you say next. You can say that you no longer believe that the church is true, you can give reasons, you can get mad, or not; it quite literally does not matter. All they will hear is, I am rejecting the church, and by extension, you, and Im not going with you to the CK, and also I have unresolved sin in my life, and Im a tool of Satan, to boot. In some of your cases, I wish that I was exaggerating.
However, when telling a spouse, it has been known to help if you separate the church from your spouse; in that, I do not believe the church is true, but my love for you has not changed, nor will it. Reassurance is needed during this difficult time.
You may also struggle with feelings of tremendous guilt for causing such pain to people you love deeply and you will be reminded of this by just about every TBM in your life. Make no mistake. YOU are not causing them pain. The Church that is NOT TRUE is causing all of you pain; you are just the only one that knows it.
Be prepared for any reaction, including spreading the news to everyone you know in hopes of getting you back in line. Be prepared for threats of divorce, of custody battles, of discipline from the church. These may or may not come to fruition, but remember, you are NOT the bad person in this situation, and you need to remember this constantly because no one else will. YOU didnt break any binding agreements; you never would have agreed to anything had you known the truth. YOU wont be blocked from the CK; Joseph Smith made the CK up, and regardless of what you choose to believe after leaving TSCC, no God that you believe in would fault you for turning on the brain he gave you and using it.
However, even while you are struggling with your own feelings of devastation, of guilt, and desperately wanting to make things right, you must be able to take care of yourself in the process. You are vulnerable, and it is tempting to agree to everything a spouse may demand at this point. And sure, you can pretend to believe, you can still wear the garments of protection, you can go to church to not rock the boat, but at this point, you are being disingenuous to yourself, and enabling the delusions of your spouse. Not to mention, you know first-hand the dangers of the church, and you know that the responsibility of showing your children a world outside Mormonism falls solely on you at this point. It is NOT fair for anyone to ask you not to share your beliefs (or non-belief) with your children, and it is completely within reason to split Sundays, whether you stay married or not. One Sunday the children can go to church with the TBM parent; the other they can do something with you, be it another church, or something fun outdoors. That is NOT an unreasonable request, and you are not keeping the children away from anything except Mormon-brand mind-control.
Yes
You have been given a yellow light--proceed with caution. Most people found that they cannot dump their entire research on a TBM and expect it to have an impact. Slow is good; finding out what their personal trigger points regarding the church are is good, and unconditional love is key. If someone genuinely wants to know the truth about the Mormon Church, you are certainly equipped to tell them. And maybe, just maybe, you can take more than yourself away when you leave.
Step Three - Make the Changes (if possible)
Leave the church. Fully, completely, no apologies. There are many resources available to aid in this process, and for many, actually resigning gives them a sense of power and control back, as well as slams shut that chapter of their lives.
If both you and your spouse leave the church (or your spouse was not TBM), leave the state of Utah immediately. No matter how beautiful the mountains are, how gorgeous your house is, or how much you like your job and neighbors, you are now an apostate. You (and your children!) will always be less-than in the eyes of the Mormon Church, and this is an unnecessary burden to place on your new lives. Not to mention, you know better than anyone the culture of the church. If the Mormon Church can get your children in, they will. Living among TBMs (especially family members), puts constant pressure on your children, and there is the very scary, very real danger of them meeting and falling in love with a Mormon, ensuring two things: 1) you dont get to attend the wedding and 2) you are never free of the Mormon church.
But above all, there is no timetable on your recovery. Each person moves at their own pace, and on their own schedule. And it's different for everyone. And it's my understanding that that's what the culture of RFM is all about.
| Mormonism is not making anyone in my family happy.
Some Mormons say that even if Mormonism isnt true it helps them live happy, productive lives and keeps their family close. I used to think that might just be the case with some people. I used to think if it worked for them then it couldnt be so harmful. Now Ive changed my mind the harm may take some time to appear but its there.
During a recent visit my sister told me that she is concerned about our mother. Apparently shes going through a breakdown she feels that she failed as a parent. Despite all the hours she put in teaching us about Mormonism, dragging us to church events, and even teaching early morning seminary (not to mention all the prayers on our behalf) all three of us have left the church.
My little brother was lucky as far as Mormonism is concerned he was really rebellious as a teen and that kept him from getting caught-up in it. He is very open with my parents about his lifestyle (he parties a lot) and it kills my mother that he drinks. The downside is that he has always been very depressed and even suicidal (that was several years ago and hes doing much better now). Ive talked to him about it a lot and its specifically the lack of parental approval that has hurt him.
My little sister was basically shamed out of the church when she got pregnant. It was very hard on her because she believed just enough to feel guilty and bad. Anyway, now she is getting married. She has been living with her fiancι for three years and they just had a baby. My sister and her fiancι were going to visit my parents (they havent seen the baby yet) but they decided at the last minute it would be best if he stayed home. My mother told my sister that theyd have to stay in separate b | |