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RUSSELL M. NELSON
Russell M. Nelson, Mormon Apostle and Celestial Polygamist. Nelson is married and sealed to two women. Nelson is also the head of the Mormon Church Secret Police known as "Strengthening the Members Committee".
| The Mormon Church is now teaching that God and Christ's divine love is not un-conditional. In fact, the church now says divine
unconditional love is an anti-Christ deception: |
"Jesus 'so loved the world that he gave his own life, that as many as
would believe might become the sons of God.' Indeed, the Father and the Son are one-in purpose and love."
"Divine Love Is Also Conditional. While divine love can be called perfect, infinite, enduring, and universal, it
cannot correctly be characterized as unconditional. The word does not appear in the scriptures. On the other hand, many
verses affirm that the higher levels of love the Father and the Son feel for each of us-and certain divine blessings stemming
from that love-are conditional."
"Understanding that divine love and blessings are not truly 'unconditional'
can defend us against common fallacies such as these: 'Since God's love is unconditional, He will love me regardless …'; or
'Since 'God is love,' He will love me unconditionally, regardless …' These arguments are used by anti-Christs to woo people
"The full flower of divine love and our greatest blessings from that love are
conditional-predicated upon our obedience to eternal law. I pray that we may qualify for those blessings and rejoice
- Russell M. Nelson, "Divine Love," Ensign, Feb. 2003, page 20
So is the teaching of divine
unconditional love really just an "anti-Christ deception?"
"God is our father; he loves us; his love is
infinite and unconditional. His sorrow is great when we disobey his commandments and break his laws. He cannot condone our
transgressions, but he loves us and wants us to return to him. I know of no greater inducement to repentance and reconciliation
with our Father in Heaven than an awareness of his unconditional love for us personally and individually."
- Elder Ronald
E. Poelman, "God's Love for Us Transcends Our Transgressions," Ensign, May 1982, page 27
"The greatest example of
love available to all of us is, of course, found in the scripture from John: 'For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son.' (John 3:16.) By the greatest of all acts of love and by this supreme sacrifice, God set the pattern. He
demonstrated to us that His love was unconditional and sufficient to encircle every person."
-Apostle Marvin J.
Ashton, We Serve That Which We Love, Ensign, May 1981, Page 22
"God’s mercy comes from his unlimited and
unconditional love for us. Likewise, we should show mercy to others because of our unlimited and unconditional love for them.
Our Savior, Jesus Christ, loves us - not because we deserve it, but because we are his brothers and sisters and he has
sacrificed for us. Our parents love us - not because we deserve it, but because they have sacrificed for us.
Robert E. Wells Of the First Quorum of the Seventy, The Beatitudes: Pattern for Coming unto Christ, Ensign, Dec. 1987, Page
"Christ’s perfect love repels fear. John reminds us that there is no fear in love, for perfect love casts out
fear. The only way that we will not be suffering from the hardness of our hearts, as Christ explains, is to build within
ourselves that power of love, literally asking our Heavenly Father for this gift of love and becoming a Saint through the
atonement of Christ the Lord and becoming as a child in humility, that we can be filled with this unconditional love, and
in this love, being in the Spirit and with this Spirit, being directed in all the challenges of our lives."
Enzio Busche, Love Is the Power That Will Cure the Family, Ensign, May 1982, Page 69
"Jesus invited little
children to come unto Him and each of us to become as one of them. He invited men to love one another as He has loved us, and
then He would call them His disciples. He extended His love to His Apostles on condition that they understood what
unconditional love for their fellowman was."
-Elder John Sonnenberg, The Invitation of the Master, Ensign, May
1985, Page 24
"God is our father; he loves us; his love is infinite and unconditional."
Ronald E. Poelman, “God’s Love for Us Transcends Our Transgressions,” Ensign, May 1982, page 27
"I testify that He
(Jesus Christ) assisted in the creation and management not only of this planet, but other worlds. His grasp is galactic, yet he
noticed the widow casting in her mite. I am stunned at his perfect, unconditional love of all. Indeed, 'I stand all amazed
at the love Jesus offers me.'"
- Neal A. Maxwell, "Jesus of Nazareth, Savior and King," Ensign, May 1976, page 26
"At the conclusion of these twenty-eight years, I testify of our Heavenly Father's love for us. The unconditional love
the Father and the Son have for us is so real. The Savior continually invites us to "come unto him and partake of his
goodness." I bear witness that He lives, that He loves each one of His children-and that means every human being-every man, every
woman, every girl, every boy, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen."
- Victor L. Brown, "A Lifetime of Learning," Ensign,
Nov. 1989, page 76
"Remind your family that Jesus' love is unconditional. That means he loves us no matter what
we do and say. Explain to your family that if they are to truly love one another as Jesus commanded them, they need to love
each other in this same way. Have family members define what is meant by unconditional love. They may wish to give examples, such
as "I will go on loving you even if you do things I don't like," or "I will love you whether you love me or not." Discuss the
examples given, and help them to refine and clarify their definition of unconditional love."
"Have a scripture
search for examples of unconditional love. As you find scriptural examples, draw parallels for your own family so that family
members can see how divine unconditional love can be applied in their own lives. Emphasize that this doctrine is not vain and
idealistic, that we can learn to love our enemies and have compassion and charity for all if we will exercise our faith in Jesus
Christ and apply his teachings.
- Family Home Evening Resource Book, Family Home Evening Lessons, 17: Love at Home, page
"Just as Brother and Sister Barnes felt the Savior’s unconditional love as they studied the gospel and
found hope in Christ; and just as the people of King Benjamin found hope in him, so can we find respect for ourselves and others,
rid ourselves of self-defeating habits, be nonjudgmental, be optimistic and of good cheer, be assured of his love for us, and
find hope in him.
-Relief Society General President Barbara W. Winder, Hope in Christ, Ensign, Nov. 1986, Page 90
"Charity develops in us as we see ourselves moving in our lives from a 'what’s in it for me' kind of love to the love of
family and friends and, blessedly, beyond that to an awareness of our Lord’s unconditional love for us that tells us of
our divine kinship with one another and with him. Such love, or charity, does not spring whole and steady in most lives, but it
can come as we learn and grow and reach for ways to know God’s love. The scriptures are a great help to us in understanding this.
There we read that love precedes knowledge of God. We test our efforts by following Christ’s way of unconditional love and
understanding. We believe our acts of kindness and demonstrated love have meaning to the degree that they draw the Holy Spirit
into our lives."
-General Primary President Aileen H. Clyde, Charity and Learning, Ensign, Nov. 1994, Page 94
"I have listed five areas which are critical in a young woman's life: the first and most important is for you, a young
woman, to work to gain a sure knowledge of Christ's unconditional love and concern for you."
- Sister Arlene B.
Darger, "Directing Your Lives," New Era, July 1980, page 12
"Jesus' unconditional love for us motivated His
atoning sacrifice for our sins. Without His unconditional love, we would be unable to return to our Heavenly Father. How He
lived His life is the example we should follow. His way should be our way.
- Elder Robert J. Whetten, "True Followers,"
Ensign, May 1999, page 30
"The tenderness of this experience was that Robbie went from challenging the idea that
Jesus could love everyone to a sweet trust of Christ's unconditional love. Each of us can feel our Savior's unconditional love
through the righteous example of others."
- Sister Ruth B. Wright, "Be Thou an Example," Ensign, Nov. 1991, page 90
"I hope that each person who attends will be welcomed at the door and will sense a great feeling of love and
caring that the bishop has. That is symbolic of the Lord's great, unconditional love for each of us."
- Elder W.
Mack Lawrence, "Sunday Worship Service," Ensign, May 1991, page 30
"Charity develops in us as we see ourselves
moving in our lives from a "what's in it for me" kind of love to the love of family and friends and, blessedly, beyond that to
an awareness of our Lord's unconditional love for us that tells us of our divine kinship with one another and with him. Such
love, or charity, does not spring whole and steady in most lives, but it can come as we learn and grow and reach for ways to know
God's love. ...We test our efforts by following Christ's way of unconditional love and understanding."
Aileen H. Clyde, "Charity and Learning," Ensign, Nov. 1994, 94
"Just as Brother and Sister Barnes felt the
Savior's unconditional love as they studied the gospel and found hope in Christ; and just as the people of King Benjamin
found hope in him, so can we find respect for ourselves and others, rid ourselves of self-defeating habits, be nonjudgmental, be
optimistic and of good cheer, be assured of his unconditional love for us, and find hope in him."
Barbara W. Winder, "Hope in Christ," Ensign, Nov. 1986, page 90
Is unconditional love bad like the Mormon
Church is now teaching?
"To love completely with a wholeness even as Christ loved, to manifest a mature and
unconditional love in all human relations, would minimize many fears."
-First Presidency Message: With an Eye
Single to His Glory, Ensign, Dec. 1971
"A person's ability to love unconditionally can have powerful
effects. Seeing another person in an eternal perspective, knowing that he is of infinite worth, helps us to look beyond his
- "Unconditional Love-The Key to Effective Parenthood," Family Home Evening Resource Book, Building a
Strong Family, page 238
"[Our children] have to learn somehow that they are more important than their mistakes;
that they are worthwhile, valuable, useful; that they are loved unconditionally. I knelt with my own family, at the conclusion of
a great family home evening, the night before our lovely daughter was to be married in the temple. I think she wouldn't mind my
telling you that after we had laughed and wept and remembered, she was asked to pray. I don't recall much of her prayer, the
tears and the joy and the sweetness, but I remember one thought: she thanked God for the unconditional love she had
received. This life doesn't give one very many chances to feel exultant and a little successful, but I felt wonderful that
night, and thank God that she really believes and understands what she said. We cannot, my dear brethren, condition our love
by a beard or beads or habits or strange viewpoints. There have to be standards and they must be enforced, but our love must be
- Marion D. Hanks, "Love Unconditional," Ensign, Dec. 1971, page 104
convinced that when we give unconditional love; when our interest is first in serving, building, edifying, strengthening
without thought of self; when we do not expect an automatic return for each act of kindness, generosity, or sincere effort to
help; when we are not concerned about what we will receive or what others will say or whether our own burdens will be diminished,
but selflessly seek to build another, the miracle of the power of the gospel is released in our lives. When we permit the
Lord to work through us to bless others, that sacred experience releases power in our own lives, and miracles occur. Well did the
Master say, "For inasmuch as ye do it unto the least of these, ye do it unto me." (DandC 42:38.)"
- Richard G. Scott, "The
Power to Make a Difference," Ensign, Nov. 1983, page 70
"All mothers go down into the valley of the shadow of
death as they labor in birth to give us life. My mother has now been dead many years. I miss her sweet, loving influence in my
life. I miss her general counsel and reproof. But mostly I miss her unconditional love."
- James E. Faust, "Them
That Honour Me I Will Honour," Ensign, May 2001, page 45
"We cannot, my dear brethren, condition our love
by a beard or beads or habits or strange viewpoints. There have to be standards and they must be enforced, but our love must
-Apostle Marion D. Hanks, Love Unconditional, Ensign, Dec. 1971, Page 104
disciples of Christ, we need to feel genuine charity for one another. I encourage you to build personal, meaningful relationships
with your nonmember friends and acquaintances. Interest in the gospel may come later as a natural extension of a good friendship.
If they are not interested in the gospel, we should show unconditional love through acts of service and kindness, and
never imply that we see an acquaintance only as a potential convert"
-Apostle M. Russell Ballard, October 1988 General
Conference: The Hand of Fellowship, Ensign, Nov. 1988, Page 30
"President Hinckley has reminded us repeatedly of
the many opportunities to reach out and touch someone. In speaking of those who have recently joined with us, he described a need
to reach out and touch them with love and fellowship; to those who are estranged, a touch of encouragement, unconditional
love, and a full measure of forgiveness if required; to our neighbors, associates, and friends who are not of our faith, the
blessing of being touched by the Holy Spirit because of our words and deeds."
-Presiding Bishop H. David Burton, A Season
of Opportunity, Ensign, Nov. 1998, Page 9
"The anxiety and fear that have often obstructed my efforts to serve
have gone away only as I have recognized three important principles: (1) I cannot solve another person’s problems. (2) Loving
another person unconditionally is the most powerful way I can serve. (3) I must depend on Christ, the only source of
unconditional love, if I am to bless others."
-Sister Susan Hainsworth, If You Would Serve Them, Love Them, Tambuli,
Mar. 1987, Page 26
A search of officially published Mormon Church addresses over the last thirty years shows
over 840 matches in support of divine "unconditional love". So why has the church recently changed this plain and precious
| I was asked about this article deep in another thread and figured it warranted a thread all it's own, if for no other reason then to let our readers, lurkers and otherwise, know about this.
If you take a look at this article which is "Adapted from an address given 25 June 1992 at a seminar for new mission presidents, Missionary Training Center, Provo, Utah" you'll find all sorts of "hidden" knowledge that Nelson felt comfortable sharing with the Mission Presidents:
"Many of you are experienced in the difficult task of translating written text from one language to another. I am intrigued, as you are, with the process Joseph Smith used to translate the Book of Mormon, which he said was done through "the gift and power of God." (Book of Mormon, title page.) The Prophet learned the nature of that gift the night the angel Moroni first visited him. Moroni told him that "there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of [the American] continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants;
"Also, that there were two stones in silver bows?and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim?deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted ?seers' in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book." (JS?H 1:34-35.)
The inscriptions on the plates were written in a Semitic language, using a modified Egyptian type of script. Some critics have scoffed at such a linguistic mix. May I tell you of Doctor Moses Maimonides, one of the greatest rabbis and Jewish philosophers of the Middle Ages. He died in A.D. 1204. He served as a court physician in Cairo and is one of the most famous figures in the early history of medicine. Hospitals are named after him today. In Cairo he read and pondered the words of earlier Muslim thinkers and wrote his philosophical books in Arabic using the Hebrew alphabet. This is but one of many instances from ancient and medieval periods in which the script of one language has been used to write in another language. (See Daniel C. Peterson, Abraham Divided; An LDS Perspective on the Middle East, Salt Lake City: Aspen Books, 1992, p. 205.) Indeed, history confirms that such a linguistic mix was not unusual at all.
I am intrigued that Joseph Smith?an unschooled young man in rural America?could have translated this Semitic language mix into the English language. That unlikely scenario relates to Isaiah's remarkable prophecy:
"I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder." (Isa. 29:14.)"
And then the admission:
"As Oliver Cowdery testified a few years later: "These were days never to be forgotten?to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom! Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated ... the history or record called ?The Book of Mormon.' " (JS?H 1:71.)
The details of this miraculous method of translation are still not fully known. Yet we do have a few precious insights. David Whitmer wrote:
"Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man." (David Whitmer, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12.)"
All I can say is that when I found out about the 'head in the hat' trick, I was seriously creeped out. I mean if this has a majorly satanic, occult ring to it. To find out that it was acknowledged and accepted by an "apostle" is even more creepy to me. When I read things like this, I always wonder how long it will take the COB to take it down off the website in their quest for information control.
Russell M. Nelson, an apostle of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) recently signed "A Letter from America's Religious Leaders in Defense of Marriage" demanding that the Constitution of the United States of America be amended to ban legalized same-sex marriage and define marriage "as the exclusive union of one man and one woman."
Just days after signing this letter, in April 2006 the widower Russell M. Nelson was married "for time and all eternity" to Wendy Lee Watson in the Salt Lake Mormon Temple. However, since Nelson also married his now-deceased first wife, Dantzel White, "for time and all eternity" in a Mormon Temple, this now makes him an eternal polygamist, celestially "sealed" to both women forever, in accordance with Mormon doctrine and practice. Nelson's actions and beliefs in being married to two women for eternity belie the letter he signed defining marriage as being exclusively between "one man and one woman", and his name should be removed from the Religious Coalition's letter immediately.
| I like to tell this true story when the topic of marriage comes up -- just to get a reaction from the TBMs. I tell about a man who is 81 who is a widower and gets re-married and sealed to a 55-year-old never-before married woman.
The reaction is usually one of surprise and, yes, disgust. Some say it is inappropriate and even "dirty-old-man" comes out occasionally. Then I drop the bombshell and say that I was speaking of Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Twelve Apostles.
Then, all of a sudden, their whole attitude changes and they all feel it is great. Some even say that if they were unmarried today, they would jump at a chance of marrying a "general authority" and especially an "apostle" even if he is 25 or 30 years older.
A more dramatic example is telling about a man in his thirties who wants to marry a 14-year-old. The reaction is usually very predictable -- "He is a child molester . . . scum."
Then I tell about Joseph Smith and MOST TBMs change their whole attitude and say that for Smith it was okay, because he was a prophet. It's rather funny to see their complete change of opinion -- a complete flip-flop.
(Yes, I know it's cruel to play these mind games with the poor TBMs.)
"While those of us here today represent a broad spectrum of religious diversity, we are firmly united in our declaration that marriage of a man and a woman is ordained of God," Nelson said at a news conference earlier in the day...
...he avoided discussion of the Doctrine and Covenants definition of "God-ordained" marriages. Or that fact that God...wink, wink...gave Nelson the go-ahead to marry another "a woman" so he can have two "a woman"s in the afterlife...
...and once again, Apostle Almighty fails to mention that polygamy is the Mormon-leader-defined entrance requirement to Godschool.
Nelson also failed to comment on the possibility of God ignoring these ordained unions if there is dirty talking going on during sexual relations. Especially, using the Lord's name in vain when you orgasm. It's like sending Sweet Jesus or Oh God a prank hang up prayer call...
...and they can hear you giggling afterward.
| || Embarrassed By What Its Apostle Wrote About Joseph Smith's Book Of Mormon "Translation" Technique |
Thursday, Aug 6, 2009, at 08:14 AM
Original Author(s): Freeatlast
Topic: RUSSELL M. NELSON -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| Russell Nelson's article, "A Treasured Testament", which has been on www.lds.org for several years. The 'faith-disrupting' quote from the article, which was published in the July 1993 Ensign, is:
"Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man."
Over the past few years, scores of 'faithful' (believing) Latter-day Saints have learned, to their shock, that JS 'translated' the BoM not by using the Urim and Thummin and gold plates, as taught by the church for generations, or by simply looking at the plates on a table and having (presumably) the 'translated' words come into his mind, as church pictures have shown, but by using a rock that he believed had a supernatural power (a 'seer'/'peep' stone) and his hat.
As ex-Mormons and plenty of Latter-day Saints know, JS covered his face with his hat, as described in Nelson's article, and magically, "something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing."
According to the quote in Nelson's article, "One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English." There are more than 1.4 million characters in the BoM!
How many Latter-day Saints, having been confronted by this quote and asked why the LDS Church doesn't teach members and potential converts the 'truth' about how JS 'translated' the BoM, have lost their Mormon 'faith' and left the church is unknown. What is certain is that the ever-misleading LDS Church has nixed Nelson's 'faith-disrupting' article from its website in an attempt to stem the haemorrhaging of members.
If you still have the July 1993 Ensign, hang on to it!
Editor Note: Thanks to a tip from a reader, the article in question has NOT been removed from LDS.org. Thanks!
| || And Here Is My Favorite From The Ensign-Ema: Families First, Unless They're Not LDS! |
Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009, at 08:07 AM
Original Author(s): Btc
Topic: RUSSELL M. NELSON -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| Under the heading "Recent Addresses from Apostles" you get Elder Russell M. Nelson emphasizing the importance of children and families.
But he never mentions it's a "conditional importance", because if those people are not LDS, you can disrespect them by doing things like saying LDS prayers and ignoring their preferences, or getting married in the temple and making them sit in the lobby because they're UNWORTHY to attend your Temple Toga Party.
There are more but Elder Nelson will leave the details up to you. His job is to do the public relations campaign and pretend FAMILIES ARE IMPORTANT!
DEAR LORD, PLEASE HASTEN THY COMING SO THAT THY HOLY IDIOTS CAN MEET THEE IN THE SKIES DURING THE RAPTURE!
| "Understanding that divine love and blessings are not truly 'unconditional' can defend us against common fallacies such as these: 'Since God's love is unconditional, He will love me regardless …'; or 'Since 'God is love,' He will love me unconditionally, regardless …' These arguments are used by anti-Christs to woo people with deception."
"The full flower of divine love and our greatest blessings from that love are conditional-predicated upon our obedience to eternal law. I pray that we may qualify for those blessings and rejoice forever."
- Apostle Russell M. Nelson, "Divine Love," Ensign, Feb. 2003, page 20
| || Russell M. Nelson Equates "Atheistic" With Pornography, Being Ungodly, Satanic, And Pro Gay Marriage |
Sunday, Jun 20, 2010, at 12:37 PM
Original Author(s): Atheist&happy:-)
Topic: RUSSELL M. NELSON -Link To MC Article-
| ↑ |
| "Atheistic moral bedlam and religious repression go hand in hand."
Russell M. Nelson gives an “inspirational” talk, that meets some of the usual requirements of LD$ profitic wisdom:
1. drive a wedge with the us vs. them mentality
2. perpetuate the persecution complex - or “the evil one is out to get us, the one true chosen ones”, and you need our guidance to navigate this dangerous minefield, so don’t think, close ranks, and do what I say....
3. fearmonger - Atheists, who don't know right from wrong or even care, want to take your religion, and all that is good in the world, away from you. BE SCARED!
“Heretics” who were merely those who did not believe the dogma of the Catholic church were hunted, and exterminated. Atheists have always been around, but usually in the closet over bigotry like this. Leave it to TSCC to lead the charge in painting us with a one-color-suits-all black brush. Let's see.... other churches, gays, atheists.... Who is left to go after?
This is hate speech aimed at those who declare no religion, disguised as the will of deity. Shameful.
| I just listened to him say on the website mp3 that the BoM was not a history book, but a book about Christ.
He is a living prophet.
Here is another still living prophet:
"The historicity - historical authenticity - of the Book of Mormon is an issue so fundamental that it rests first upon faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, which is the first principle in this, as in all other matters."
- Dallin H. Oaks, Apostle, "The Historicity of the Book of Mormon," Speech given at Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies," Oct. 29, 1993
And another living prophet:
I ask that my testimony of the Book of Mormon and all that it implies, given today under my own oath and office, be recorded by men on earth and angels in heaven. I hope I have a few years left in my "last days," but whether I do or do not, I want it absolutely clear when I stand before the judgment bar of God that I declared to the world, in the most straightforward language I could summon, that the Book of Mormon is true, that it came forth the way Joseph said it came forth and was given to bring happiness and hope to the faithful in the travail of the latter days.
- Elder Holland October 2009 General Conference
Of course we know that Oaks was partly responsible for hiding the Hoffman affair and buying forged documants, and we know that Holland used a phony prop and declared over the pulpit that it was genuinely Hyrums own copy.
So, it only stands to reason that Nelson can be trusted to tell the truth and as such is in Apostasy from the rest of the church.
It is always the right choice to apostatize from LDS Inc, and I hope that Bro.Nelson will take the next step and leave them to their own device.
The divine Historicity of the Bom:
And although he is dead and now officailly can be dismissed as speaking only as a man, here is Gordon from the First Presidency message 2005:
All efforts to account for its origin, other than the account given by Joseph Smith, have been shown to lack substance. It is a record of ancient America. It is a scripture of the New World, as certainly as the Bible is the scripture of the Old. Each of these volumes of scripture speaks of the other. Each carries with it the spirit of inspiration, the power to convince and to convert. Together they become two witnesses, hand in hand, that Jesus is the Christ, the resurrected and living Son of the living God.
The Book of Mormon narrative is a chronicle of nations long since gone. But in its descriptions of the problems of today's society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems.
Thats the beauty of it. For members who want to believe in its historicity they have the talks noted above by Hinckley, Oaks and Holland. For members who are smart enough to realize it CAN'T be historical they can now refer to Russell Nelson's talk.
| Of all of the lies and terrible things that have come out of TSCC over the years, I believe that Russell M. God-wants-to-put-you-in-a-full-Nelson's new doctrine of God's conditional love, put forth in 2003, is one of the most dangerous things ever to come out of this cult. As if families aren't already negatively impacted enough by this church, now we get this.
Think about how this doctrine is going to impact families, especially as younger Mormons grow up with it and are shielded from the teachings of former GA's who taught that God's love is unconditional. The thought process will be: "IF GOD'S LOVE IS CONDITIONAL, PREDICATED ON OUR ACTIONS, AND IF I WANT TO BE LIKE JESUS, THEN MY LOVE WILL BE CONDITIONAL AS WELL". This will lead to Mormons feeling that they are completely justified in, and even following Christ by, withholding love from their gay children, apostate family members, etc. As if a lot of Mormons needed an excuse to be worse to non-believing family members - now they've got one. For this reason, it is my belief that this doctrine of hate must be fiercely combated! Whether you believe in Jesus, raptorjesus, or put on dark robes and pray to Flying Spaghetti Monster's nemesis, I hope these points will be of some help. And whether you believe in scripture or not - Mormons do - so I've included Bible verses and Book of Mormon verses to aid in the fight.
Following is a short-ish list of things we can each use to show our Mormon family members and friends that Russell must have just been speaking as a man....
1) Numerous quotes from other Mormon general authorities, clearly indicating that God's love is unconditional. They can be found at the i4m.com website via the following link:
2) Some selected quotes from the New Testament. There are many more you could use, but here are just a few:
"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be the sons of your Father in Heaven...." Matt 5:44-45.
So if God wants us to love our enemies, wouldn't it stand to reason that He would love His "enemies" too?
"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them...." Luke 6:32. Pretty self-explanatory.
"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us". Romans 5:8
"This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins". 1 John 4:10.
OK, how much more clearer can this be? This says flat out that God loves us, even in the absence of our love for Him. I would say that is pretty much the definition of unconditional love, wouldn't you?
"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord". Romans 8:35.
So nothing can separate us from God's love according to this. So that works into conditional love how?
3) But you know, our Mormons friends may point out that they only believe the Bible as far as it's translated correctly. Those conniving monks probably changed the plain and precious doctrine of God's conditional love. Like, the scripture should have said, "nor anything else in all creation, except if we screw up, will be able to separate us from the love of God....".
Fine, so let's go to the Book of Mormon, shall we? The most correct of any book on earth. The book that contains the fullness of the everlasting gospel. The book of books, greater than any other. Here we go:
"Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men...." 2 Nephi 31:20.
So we're supposed to love everyone. And would God expect us to do that if He doesn't?
But here's the kicker:
"And I am filled with charity, which is everlasting love...." Moroni 8:17.
And, pray tell Moroni, this charity which is everlasting love. What exactly is it?
"But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever...." Moroni 7:47.
Aha. So charity is the pure love of Christ. And it endures forever. It's everlasting. But wait, isn't it possible that under certain circumstances, this charity - this pure love of Christ - could fail and go away? Take it home Moroni....
"Wherefore, my beloved bretheren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing, for CHARITY NEVER FAILETH...." Moroni 7:46 (empahsis mine).
Oh. Well. Um. Hmmmmm. It never fails. Doesn't say it never fails unless.... it just says it never fails. And this is the most correct book ever, so it couldn't be a mistranslation, right?
Looks like it's time for the boys at headquarters to either change the Book of Mormon (again) or acknowledge that Nelson must have been speaking as a man. Looks like our TBM friends and family members will have to do the same.
| Why women don't need to know about physics or astronomy. According to Russell M. Nelson
Russel M. Nelson gave a talk about women's divine worth. He said a lot of insulting and crazy stuff about and to women. The paragraph about why women need not major in physics and astronomy really pushed my buttons.
He said: She need not major in physics to know divine truths. As there is no such thing as immaterial matter (dandc 131:7) She need not be graduated in astronomy to learn lessons taught by God to Abraham-the relationship of the earth to the sun,the sun to the planets, the planets to the center of the universe and more (see abraham 3) When she sings twinkle twinkle little star, how I wonder where you are, she knows the scriptural answers.
So in other words ladies. No need for education. Read the book of abraham. It will teach you every thing you ever wanted or needed to know about the universe! Good God! is all I can say about that!
| I don't know about you, but if they could tell me the name of a deceased relative I would feel loved and reconsider my beliefs. I feel sorry for the missionaries.
"Missionaries should also cultivate a relationship with the ward family history consultant, whom he said could become their "closest ally" in softening the hearts of those investigating the Church. Working together, missionaries and the ward family history coordinator can help investigators identify an ancestor, an ideal way for missionaries to show their love for those unfamiliar with the Church, he said."
"When they encounter those critical of the imperfections of the people in the Church, missionaries should "help those critics to see that they can gain wisdom-even exaltation-from doctrine received by revelation from heaven to imperfect people. Applying that doctrine, each person can, in due time, become perfected in Christ.""
This sends a mixed message: Missionaries must be virtuous and abstain from things such as factory touching or any impure thought so they can be entitled to the companionship of the Holy Ghost, but Joseph Smith, for some reason, was able to chat with the Big Man upstairs on a regular basis despite being a pedophile.
Also, missionaries must not forget that if they are unable to convert people to the church it is probably because they have been factory touching and not because there is anything wrong with the message.
| In tonight's CES fireside, Elder Russel M. Nelson made a commet overpopulation, saying you could move the world's population into Brazil with room to spare.
I googled for more on this topic, and found that he gave an address to BYU-Idaho in 2010 and had made similar comments. For convenience I'll quote the remarks given at BYU-Idaho:
Now, let me ask you a question. Is the world truly overpopulated? Consider the facts. The latest data indicate that the world's population is 6.8 billion people. If every one of those 6.8 billion people were allocated one quarter of an acre (for example, under that formula a family with a father and a mother with two children would be given one acre), I repeat, if a quarter of an acre were allocated to each man, woman, and child now living on the earth today, they would all fit in the country of Brazil, with 20 percent of Brazil still left unoccupied!
Now I'm not expert on overpopulation, but the questions about overpopulation largely concern the availability and sustainability of the resources that humans need to maintain our economy and lifestyle, and about the effects a large human population have on the environment. It's not simply about the available real estate.
So the real question is, do we have faith in the word of the Lord? He said, "For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare" (DandC 104:17). God's work and His glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, and He has provided this earthly opportunity for us to prepare for that glorious goal.
Consider also that implementing Nelson's example would mean destroying much the Amazon rain forests. It ignores questions about habitability of the land (like living in a swamp or mountainside), the climates for farming, and space for infrastructure(such as roads).
Let me be clear here. The problem I have isn't simply whether he is right or wrong about overpopulation. It's that the arguments he uses are simply worthless with no real applicability to the actual arguments being made concerning overpopulation. When addressing something important like the question of overpopulation, this is what we get from God's mouthpieces. Perhaps to satisfy Nelson, we should trying moving the world's population into Brazil so he can see the stupid impracticality of his "facts."
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