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  MORMON TEMPLES
Total Articles: 116
This topic is reserved for discussion, events and stories surrounding Mormon Temple participation, attendance or other. It is generally a collection of stories of Mormons who have attended Temples and their feelings.
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List Of Questions About The Temple Endowment
Friday, Jan 21, 2005, at 12:58 PM
Original Author(s): Deconstructor
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Here was my list of questions about the temple endowment:
  1. Why are the days of creation different than those recorded in the Book of Moses and Genesis? The third and fourth days are backwards in the endowment ceremony.

  2. In the Mormon scripture Book of Moses 3:15-25 it says that God commanded the man (Adam) not to eat from the tree of good and evil. God didn't command the woman, because she had not been created yet. So why is the endowment film different than the Mormon scriptural account?

  3. How did Peter, James and John get bodies before they were born? Peter shakes Adam's hand, so we know they weren't spirits. According to Joseph Smith's handshake test for discerning evil spirits from good spirits, Peter should have refused to shake Adam's hand (unless he had been resurrected).

  4. Satan wears an apron that he says is a symbol of his power and priesthood. Why then does Adam, Eve and the temple congregation moments later obey Satan when he commands them to put on aprons?

  5. How could Jesus be on the right hand of God, in physical form looking like his identical twin, when Jesus had not been born or resurrected yet? Jesus says in the Bible and BoM that he wasn't perfected until AFTER the atonement.

  6. So was Lucifer a snake as it says in the scriptures, or a man like it shows in the temple?

  7. Lucifer picks the apple off the tree and gives it to Eve. But Lucifer doesn't have a body! What's up with that?

  8. Where did Lucifer get his preacher that was preaching to Adam and Eve? Was he for real or just a ghost? If just a ghost, why was he dressed as a protestant minister with the collar for Adam and Eve to see?

  9. The Book of Abraham as well as the modern prophets have taught us that the earth was created around the star Kolob. It orbited God's solar system until AFTER the fall, when it was hurled through space and placed in this solar system. This scriptural doctrine contradicts the endowment, where we see the creation of the moon and it mentions our sun and the other planets too. (See http://www.i4m.com/think/lists/mormon_science.htm)

  10. If the Kolob doctrine is true, why is this not included in the endowment, which is supposed to be the "Lord's University"?

  11. Why go through the creation story if it is not true and contradicts Mormon doctrine and the Book of Abraham?

  12. If the endowment is actual history, then why was it so radically changed in April 1990? Whole sections were altered and others deleted! If the endowment represented real history, how could it change? Was it not true to the actual events all along? Is the new version "more true to history?" (See: http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_changes.htm)

  13. In April 1990 the covenants and penalties of the endowment ceremony also changed dramatically. Didn't Jesus say in the scriptures that a sign of false churches is that they change his covenants?

  14. Where do you find a clear description of these "laws' mentioned in the temple?
    1. Law of Obedience
    2. Law of Sacrifice
    3. Law of Elohim
    4. Law of the Lord
    5. Law of the Gospel
    6. Law of Chastity
    7. Law of Consecration

  15. Some of those laws that temple patrons covenant to obey are never mentioned or explained outside the temple. If they are literal laws of God that must be obeyed, why are they not all clearly identified and expounded upon in church discourse?

  16. What is the difference between "legally" and "lawfully" as said in the temple endowment covenant?

  17. Adam raises his arms in the "true order of prayer", and who answers his prayer? Satan. Does this mean Satan can answer even prayers given in the "true order" ordained by God? What prayer is safe from not being intercepted by Satan? (See: http://helpingmormons.org/compare.htm)

  18. Did God really send Peter, James and John down to earth and give Adam and Eve those silly temple clothes to wear? They didn't have a temple, so when did Adam and Eve wear them?

  19. How could Peter, James and John be involved in the whole thing when they hadn't been born yet, hadn't been baptized and had not been through the temple? They weren't wearing garments themselves, so how could they be worthy to participate in the endowment events?

  20. Temple workers stand is as proxys for Elohim and Jehovah during the ceremony, which makes it very sacred. But since someone also stands in as a literal proxy for Satan, doesn't that make the temple unholy?

  21. What is the purpose of learning the "true order of prayer" if it can never be practiced outside of the temple ceremony?

  22. Why does God require secret handshakes, names and passwords to pass through the veil and enter his presence? Can't God look into our hearts and know whether or not we are worthy?

  23. Why are temple patrons required to make death oaths, when they are expressly forbidden by God in Mormon scripture? (see: http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_oaths.htm)

  24. If the endowment is centered on Jesus Christ, why isn't Christ's two top commandments included in the endowment covenants - love God and love your neighbor? Why isn't there mention of Christ's sermon on the mount or other teachings on charity and compassion?

Did anyone else wonder about this stuff before you realized the whole thing was a fraud?
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Temples Cost Members More Than 10%
Thursday, Feb 24, 2005, at 07:41 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
In order for Mormons to be saved in Heaven, they have to know a secret handshake, a secret password, a secret new "name" and must be endowed and sealed. They do all of this in their temples. But in order for a Mormon to get into the temple, they have to pay the Mormon Church 10% of their gross income for one year and be completely obedient to church law such as no masturbation, no sex outside of marriage, no homosexual acts and more. Mormons must go through a lengthy interview in order to receive a Temple Recommend (TR) where they must profess that Gordon B. Hinckley is a prophet of God and that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.

The cost, however, is more. Mormons must either rent or purchase temple clothes and garments.

The ceremonial clothing page at www.ldscatalog.com was accessible until late-2004. In "the good old days", the website asked for a TR number, and any random seven-digit number would work. Now, most likely in reaction to this board and the auction of temple clothing/garments on eBay, the site now requires your name, date of birth, and member number (for garments), and TR number (for ceremonial clothing). You cannot view the items or prices without this information (i.e. inactives could access at least the garments page; I don't know if someone with a valid member # has faked a TR# to access the temple clothing page).

I did view the ceremonial clothing page while it was still "public" (I would enter a random number for the TR) and these are the price ranges I recall:

1. Robe: $25-28 (higher for pleated model, lower for gathered model). I believe that the robe price included the sash, though they sold replacement sashes

2. Apron: $10-12 or so. There are square-cut and

3. Cap (men) about $5, veil (women) about $8.

4. Envelope (the "packet" in which the clothing is folded and packed): about $3-5.

All told, a round figure of roughly $60 seems to ring a bell. Of course, this does not include the cost of white temple clothing (white dress or skirt/blouse for women; white pants/tie/shirt or jumpsuit for men) which is worn underneath the ceremonial clothing.

So if any Mormon tells you there is no money changing going on at their temples, they are lying. You have to bring cash in order to rent clothes if you don't have your own. This is why all the little old men and little old ladies coming and going from the Mormon temples are carrying tiny suitcases.

Ask them that if they need to be pure in order to enter the temple, why are there lockers with locks on them in the temple?
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The Mormon Temple As A Lasting Relic Of Polygamy
Tuesday, Mar 1, 2005, at 10:11 AM
Original Author(s): Deconstructor
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Ever wonder what today's Mormon Church would be like if Joseph Smith had never practiced polygamy?

Here's just a few of the lasting legacies due to Joseph Smith "restoring" the doctrine of Polygamy:

1. Creation of Temple Endowment
In order to keep Smith's Polygamy a secret, he came up with the temple endowment with its oaths of secrecy. For the first year, only a very select few men received the endowment and all were sworn to secrecy based on a death oath. By using a secret ceremony and oaths, Smith was able to keep his practice of polygamy a secret for years. History of the Church Volume 5:1 documents these first meetings and the participants. They were all in Smith's inner-circle of polygamy. Heber C. Kimball's journal (1840-45) also describes the introduction of the secret endowment as it relates to polygamy.

2. Closing of Temple Marriages
The practice of closed Temple marriages started with polygamy. Before polygamy in Nauvoo, mormon marriages were performed anywhere. In fact, those performed in the Kirtland Temple were open to non members! Joseph Smith's own diary lists marriages he performed in the temple, which included non-members as participants and as witnesses. See "The Personal Writings of Joseph Smith, 1835-1836." Today, mormons have the tradition of closed temple marriages as a direct legacy of Smith's attempt to keep polygamy a closely-guarded secret. When he was marrying other men's wives without their knowledge, he had to have the ceremonies closed and secret.

3. Concept of Eternal Marriage
Until Smith started secretly practicing polygamy, Smith taught that marriage was until death only. That's right - the doctrine of "together forever" started when he began proposing to other women. He told them that marrying him would "seal" their whole family to him "forever." But before these proposals, Smith believed and taught that marriage ended at death. In fact, before Nauvoo, his love letters to his first wife Emma reflect his beliefs. In a letter to Emma on May 18th, 1834, Smith signed "...your husband until death." Writing from Carthage Jail on 4 November 1838, Smith told his wife "If I do not meet you again in this life may God grant that we may somehow meet in heaven."

4. The term "Celestial Marriage"
Modern mormons think this means monogamous temple marriage. Actually, this term always referred exclusively to plural marriage until the 1890s. Until that time, faithful members married in the temple to only one spouse did not have a celestial marriage! According to ALL Church presidents until 1890, celestial marriage was achieved only by marriage to multiple wives. See 27 Rules of Celestial Marriage, by Apostle Orson Pratt. Also, William Clayton said: "From Joseph Smith I learned that the doctrine of plural and celestial marriage is the most holy and important doctrine ever revealed to man on the earth, and that without obedience to that principle, no man can ever attain to the fullness of exaltation in celestial glory." Historical Record, Vol. 6, pp. 225-227. Read even more historical references here: http://www.mormons.org.uk/cpmr.htm

5. The Practice of "Sealings"
Once again, before polygamy, marriage was just that; marriage. But to take on a second wife, especially one that was already married, a new term needed to be used, so it wouldn't sound like adultery. Smith chose to call his plural marriages "sealings." Reference from Emma Hale Smith Biography, page 140: "Simultaneously with the endowment and plural marriage, Joseph formalized a third concept. He explained to Emma (for the first time) that husbands and wives could be married, 'sealed,' forever by proper priesthood authority. Understanding this new doctrine led to the next step, which was the marriage of a living husband to several living wives. This doctrine seemed to alleviate some of the repugnance to plural marriage." This allowed women that already had husbands to say they were married to their first husband, but sealed to Smith. Although women had sex with both Smith and their husbands, they perceived the marriage contract different.

6. Creation and Wearing of Secret Garments
These too, were a result of Smith's polygamous affairs. It started with the secret circle of men that accepted and practiced his plural wife doctrine. It was his way of setting them apart from monogamous men. It was originally the "uniform" required for men to perform spiritual wifery. Reference from Emma Hale Smith Biography, page 140: "After being involved in the construction and design of the garments, the building of the temple, and hearing about their place in the endowment in the Relief Society (by Smith), why had women not been admitted to the Endowment? Joseph taught that a man must obey God to be worthy of the endowment and that a wife must obey a righteous husband to merit the same reward. Until Emma could be obedient to Joseph (see DandC Sec. 132) and give him plural wives, she could not participate in the endowment ceremonies, yet Smith taught her that the endowment was essential for exaltation."

Brigham Young and Joseph F. Smith condemned Smith for taking off his garments before he went to Carthage Jail. Part of their reason was that it was a sign he had regretted his practice of polygamy. "Smith removed his own endowment "robe" or garment before he went to Carthage Jail and told those with him to do likewise. His nephew Joseph F. Smith later explained, "When Willard Richards was solicited [by Smith] to do the same, he declined, and it seems little less than marvelous that he was preserved without so much as a bullet piercing his garments."" (The Mormon Hierarchy : Origins of Power, page 146) Michael Quinn references Heber J. Grant journal sheets, 7 June 1907, LDS Archives.

7. Design of Modern Temples
Why was the Nauvoo temple so different than the Kirtland temple? Both came from the same unchanging God, right? The Kirtland Temple was actually an expensive church, not an endowment house like the Nauvoo temple. Modern temples with their closed doors, secret ceremonies and odd clothing started in the polygamy-inspired Navuoo temple. In fact, the whole concept of a "Celestial Room" was created to reinforce the doctrine that Smith would be with all of his wives in "heaven" as one big family. The touching experience today when mormon families reunite after the veil in the temple, started out as an experience Smith could use to show how polygamy worked in heaven.

Polygamy (one man married to two or more living wives) may not be practiced today in the church, but its influence on church doctrine and practices still haunts the lives of millions of active members. The temple endowment, garments and oaths of secrecy all have their origins in Joseph Smith's practice of polygamy.
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Why The Green Apron Over Temple Clothes?
Friday, Mar 4, 2005, at 08:05 AM
Original Author(s): Deconstructor
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
So what really is the symbolic meaning of the green apron in the temple?

Satan first tells Adam and Eve to put on the apron to cover their nakedness. So you'd think it would be a symbol of Satan or covering nakedness.

But then God kicks Adam and Eve out of the garden and gives them (and temple patrons) garments to cover their nakedness. So why do they still need the green apron?

Later, patrons add priesthood robes over their garments, as did adam and eve. But then they have to put put the green apron on again ontop of the other clothes.

This apron stays with you for the rest of the endowment, all the way to the Celestial Room. Why?

Even during temple marriages, couples have to wear the green apron as part of their clothing.

The temple is supposed to prepare you to become like God, yet God and Jesus don't wear the apron in the temple. The only one wearing an apron besides the temple patrons is Satan, who says his represents his power and "priesthoods."

Mormon folklore would have us believe the apron is a symbol of life, as explained on my web site:

http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_clothes.htm

But does this really make sense? What's the meaning of wearing the apron on top of all of the other temple clothing?
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Temple Prayer Rolls
Friday, Mar 4, 2005, at 05:23 AM
Original Author(s): Jennyfoo
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Does this bother anyone else? I know that me, my brothers and sisters, my husband, and probably my children, and many of my cousins are most likely on the Temple Prayer Rolls of every temple in North America. LOL!

It is offensive to me that people who know me and supposedly love me, think that I have some problem that needs to be prayed about. It is one thing to ask for prayers and blessings, but to have people do it behind your back the way the Temple Prayer Rolls work is unbelievably stupid. Do mormons even realize that even this practice is offensive to others who do not wish for their prayers?

I do not believe in prayer, nor God, and I know it is not harming anyone, but sometimes it makes me want to call and put these "offenders" on the rolls of the local KKK or Satanic organization so they can know how it feels.
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Temple Building Is Slowing Down
Sunday, Mar 20, 2005, at 10:38 AM
Original Author(s): Jarrod
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
As you can see from this list, the church is building temples at a very slow pace again. In fact, if you check out the list of "Temples Announced or Under Construction", only 5 of the 10 temples on the list are even under construction, and only 1 out of those 10 has a date set for its dedication.

Some of the temples on the list appear to be completely stalled. For example, the Harrison New York temple was announced in 1995, and the Kiev Ukraine temple was announced in 1998, but neither project has actually broken ground.

2004 saw the opening of only 3 temples and 2003 saw 2. Given how long the other temples have taken to build, it is doubtful that more an 2 or 3 temples could be opened in 2005 (so far only San Antonio appears to be the only one for this year).

I know a few people who work at the Seattle Temple, and my father was an initiatory director there until 2001 (when he passed away). From all accounts I've been given, the Seattle Temple is highly underutilized. It is the church's 5th largest temple, and it receives fewer visitors than most of the smaller regional temples.

From what I have been told by Mormons and ex-Mormons in other parts of the United States, many other temples are faring just as poorly in attendance.

Simply factoring what we know about church activity, resignation rates, and waning conversion rates, I really think the church is doing the right thing in slowing its temple building. It seems unlikely that the flurry of temple openings in recent years (60 temples were opened between 1999 and 2002) was in response to demand; many Mormons are aware that numerous temples have cut their operating hours over the last decade. It looks like LDS Inc. has finally realized that their temple growth was unwarranted and not in step with actual membership.

Now that we see conversion rates declining and there seem to be more resignations every year, I wonder how long it will be before a temple is forced to close its doors on weekdays or shut down altogether.

Combining wards and stakes rarely results in the closure of a chapel. Closing a temple would be a black eye for the church because members have traditionally been expected to make "temple trips" that require them to drive several hours to the temple and stay overnight if necessary. A temple closure would signal that the members are no longer willing to make such sacrifices, whereas a chapel closure could merely signal a changing local demographic.

Temples must cost an enormous amount of money to maintain. Their laundry bills alone must have been enormous (I believe this was overcome by the recent requirement that members provide their own temple clothes- no more renting temple clothes). I wonder how long it will be until they ask members to perform janitorial and ground-keeping duties, or until a collection box is bolted in the entry vestibule.
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Menstruation, Eve's Curse, And The Baptismal Font: A Question Of Origins
Thursday, Mar 31, 2005, at 10:37 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Has anyone heard of the following: If a Young Woman is on her period, she may not do baptisms for the dead in the temple. I brought it up to my TBM husband last night and he thought this was the funniest thing. I had forgotten about it, but it came up last night when I was trying to explain to him how many doctrines are emotionally abusive to women. Then this memory came out of nowhere. Am I smoking crack, or was this once a policy? I remember when I was a young woman in the San Antonio East Stake (mid 80s early 90s) that we were not allowed to do baptisms for the dead if we were on our period. We were allowed to go to the temple and sit through the ordinances, but we were not allowed to go into the font and do baptisms by proxy. I distinctly remember being told this by my leaders. I remember that girls would freak out because they’d get their period on the ride up to the temple. They’d sit there in the temple crying because they couldn’t get the “blessings” that come from doing work for the dead.

At the time, my 12 year old brain thought it had something to do with getting blood in the water. That blood would get in the water and stain the white clothes or something. Yea, and I also thought I could get pregnant from swimming with boys, but that’s a post for another day. Now that I know better I know this had nothing to do with it. I know that many doctrines have misogynistic origins. Its all part of the paradox lip service “Heavenly Father loves his daughters so much (even more than his sons) and their bodies are sacred, but their bodies are also offensive to him.” I’m not a scriptorian and have always been bored by GA talks, past and present, so I don’t have a reference to give my wonderful husband. He thinks I just had psycho leaders and doesn’t believe that any GA or good priesthood leader would believe this because he doesn’t. What is the origin of menstruation being part of Eve’s curse and therefore unholy while also being sacred (paradox)? I know this had to have come from a prick holder, I mean, priesthood holder. Can anyone help me out? Something smells funny about this one (ha, ha).

- -

If things have changed, I'm glad.

I was baptized in the SLC and Logan temples. It was stressed before leaving and at the temples that girls having periods had to whisper the fact to a leader and be excused from participating.

That was embarrassing for some girls because everyone knew why they were being excluded, and the boys smirked about it.

Every girl also had to strip and be observed naked before they could put on their jumpsuit. This was to prove they weren't mensturating. It was also to prove that they didn't have underwear beneath their suits. An old lady told us that the a bit of colored stitching for days of the week (which we all wore then) on panties or a little gray elastic in the waistlines could invalidate the ritual. That would prevent the spirit women from ascending to the next kingdom of heaven.

- -

I remember going on a trip to Washington, D.C., and one of the girls who was with us wasn't allowed to participate. She cried the whole time, even though they gave her stuff to do (carry towels, check off names, etc.).

So, later, when *I* went, and was similarly, um, "impaired," I just used, uh, "internal protection," and didn't say anything. I recall being a little nervous, thinking that the temple worker might be able to 'discern' that I was pulling a fast one, but nothing happened.

The excuse WE were given was that it was not "hygenic" to go into the water, if you were menstruating. Now, I knew that this was a load of bunk, especially if you were using tampons, so that's why I was so ready to hold back the truth. Had I really been convinced that I was somehow spreading bacteria, I would have been less likely to fib.

Funny, though--being told this "policy" didn't change my idea that the temple was a holy place, and we were doing holy ordinances; I only thought that the temple worker was old and behind the times, to think that a menstruating girl was somehow going to contaminate the baptismal font.

- -

Women were asked to not even do endowment sessions if they were menstruating, for the "reason" that if one's dress were to become stained it caused too much commotion and would hold things up.

I was in a session when this occured. A sister was going through prior to her mission, and her lovely (bought/made for the occasion) dress was bloodstained on the back. The shame was that she had gone to the temple ON HER PERIOD, and look at what a problem she had caused by daring to LEAK so that the little old ladies had to help her clean things up while the session was delayed, and How Dare She.

It was SO scandalous that the blood was ascribed to a recent surgery rather than "the curse."

Nowadays, this Goddess celebrates moon-time by wearing red clothing and jewelry, nurturing herself, and yes, making love to a man who is not intimidated by a woman's power.

- -

But mens repulsion with period blood is there in black and white in the bible. I forget where but its somewhere in the first 5 books of the old testament. It talks about a woman being unclean during her cycle and unclean after she has had a baby (sheesh!!), and that she should be put away. Its really specific. And orthodox jews still practise the "law" to the full extent i believe. A man is not even allowed to touch his wife or have her pass something to him, as she is so dirty on her period.

You're speaking of tahor, which is often translated as "clean" but in fact has nothing to do with cleanliness. This is the problem with reading the Bible in translation. The word means "purity," not "cleanliness."

There is a big difference. For example, if I took a slab of bacon, cooked it in my frying pan, then washed the frying pan, the pan would be clean. It would not, however, be tahor.

Right now, I'm taking a break after preparing dinner, while it cooks. I won't clean the kitchen until after we've eaten and the plates are stacked in the kitchen sink. My kitchen right now is dirty. HOWEVER, it is also tahor and kasher, pure and kosher, because I follow the laws of kashrut. Kosher (KOH-shurr), also pronounced kasher (kah-SHARE), means "in accordance with the law." Tahor means ritually pure. My kitchen is both -- even when it is dirty -- because I obey the laws set down in the Hebrew Bible.

Women of Israel (Hebrews, Jews) are instructed to immerse themselves in a mikvah, a ritual bath, after they finish menstruating each month. Yes, you're right. Menstruating women are considered tamei, impure. The thing that you're not remembering about the Bible is that men, too, need to ritually immerse after every seminal emission. Neither menstrual blood nor semen is considered dirty. They do, however, render the person who issues them tamei. This is not about sexism, and it's not about dirty or clean. It's about a spiritual discipline.

Feel free to think that is stupid, but at least get your facts right, and scoff at the right thing.
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Mormon Temple Prayer List
Thursday, Apr 28, 2005, at 07:54 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
You can call the temple and have anyone put on the temple prayer list(or have a name put on the list when you are visiting the temple). People might do this because someone they know is sick, needs comfort, needs a special blessing, needs to come back to the fold, etc.

Once a list is compiled, it is then placed on the altar in a white bag. The temple endowment session attendees will circle around the altar in the patriarchal grip(boy girl, boy girl fashion) then enter into the "true order of prayer"(oh god hear the words of mouth...").

The endowment officiator is the voice for the prayer(in an unscripted prayer), he may kneel at the altar, and he makes the sign of the second token of the aaronic priesthood. Women all have their faces veiled in the circle, too. The circle of people then echo whatever the officiator says in the prayer.

Generally, the officiator and his wife(often a retired couple) ask people from the "audience" to be in the circle. I always hated being picked for that and my wife hated it because you had to stand the whole time(and the officiator can get windy there). Standing up there and in a veil was a sweaty experience my wife says. The veil was extremely hot.

I have never seen someone not go to the circle when chosen. Nearly as bad is when the officiator asks a couple to be the adam and eve up at the altar. I hated that, too, and it seems like my wife and I were always picked for that.
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Joe Blow Added To Temple Prayer Rolls
Tuesday, May 3, 2005, at 08:56 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
My wife wanted to do sealings. We had never done sealings in this particular temple. To make a long story short, the guy at the front desk gave us some ambiguous instructions regarding what to do and where to go. With that said, my wife was already upstairs all the while I was waiting for her downstairs (just outside the dressing room by the escalators.) After waiting well beyond the start-time of the sealings session, I figured that I missed out on receiving my temple blessings for that day. Damn! I felt so bad. ;)

But I continued to wait because I had nothing else to do. I walked to and from the prayer-roll station a few times. I really wanted to add a [bogus] name to the prayer roll, but I was hesitant at first (i.e., up to this point in my life, I have never written any names to the prayer roll, so I was not quite sure what to do. Even whan I was a TBM, I thought the idea was stupid. Does the lord prioritize [vain repititious] prayer-circle prayers over sincere [non-prayer-circle] prayers? I think this is why I have never put names on the prayer roll.) Anyway, on with my story ...

It was apparent that an endowment session had just ended because a bunch of temple-garb-clad patrons came down the escalators. This one particular couple arrived at the prayer roll station and proceeded to add like 20 names each (completely disregarding the clear instructions of "making long lists is inappropriate.") They were there for 4 or 5 minutes writing names down with full faith that the prayer roll is actually effective. After they left, I proceeded to the prayer-roll station. Rather than adding to the long list, I took one of the small single-use papers (i.e., it's just big enough to write a single name on it.) For the very first time in my life I added a name to the prayer roll; ironically, as a non-believer. The name I added was none other than "Joe Blow" himself.

As an "active" non-believing member of the church, it was very theraputic for me to perform this deed of passive-deviance. However, I am surprised that none of the temple workers approached me and caught me in the act of my misdeed, they do have the gift of discernment afterall. Anyway, I sure hope that Joe Blow gets better and all goes well for him and his family (and I especially hope that the two-week time limit of being on the prayer roll is enough for him to receive adequate blessings.) There are plenty of anecdotal stories floating around regarding individuals who have gotten better because their name was on the prayer roll; surely Joe Blow will be fully healed of his disease and affliction.
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Were You Ever Told That You Had To Put Your Right Temple Shoe On First?
Friday, May 27, 2005, at 09:36 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I'll never forget my first temple session with my friend that converted me to the Church. As if I wasn't stressed enough as is trying to tie a sash in a bow and it had to be over top of the apron and the robe had to be from this side to this side.

I figure stepping into the shoes was simple enough. Just slide 'em on. Thank god something simple that I know how to do. Wrong!!!

I had made the god awful mistake of putting my left one on first. I got sternly tapped on the leg and my friend nudged me and said TAKE THAT ONE OFF AND PUT THE RIGHT ONE ON FIRST.

Talk about a look of bewilderment. I was even more confused. I hated that whole experience. I am just wondering if any of you were ever told such a silly thing.

Later when I asked her about it when we were allowed to talk. (AKA OUTSIDE THE TEMPLE), she said it was just like passing the sacrament -- that you were to use your right hand. Ha -- I had never paid attention to what hand I used to pass the sacrament to the next person. That bugged me for so long but I studied the ward minions and many of them indeed always passed it with their right hand. And once the friend mumbled something about "Right hand of God" having something to do with why to put the right shoe on first.

God what a freaking cult I was in.
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A Temple Dress Code Tale
Friday, May 27, 2005, at 09:39 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I was with a group of women who drove for an hour and a half to show up for ward-assigned duty at the Seattle temple. In our group was a woman who was very, very close to her due date with her first child.

Any woman who's been pregnant can back me up on this - there is NOTHING that will lift a waddling expectant mother's spirits like a new outfit!

Sister Due-any-minute had such an outfit on. Her husband had lovingly picked it out for her. She loved it and felt pretty for the first time in months. It was a most unusual outfit. It looked like a salwar kameez (an Indian long tunic and pants set), but it was actually all one piece. The dress part came down past mid-calf, and somehow the bottom folded over with two short "cuffs" attached at the bottom. It looked like a long dress over fitted trousers, with just a couple of inches of cuff showing at the ankles.

The temple worker at the front desk told her it was disrespectful to try and "sneak in" with pants on, and to go and "take those things off this minute!" Sister Due-any-minute explained that they weren't pants, they were just cuffs at the bottom of the dress. "I don't care what they are, either take them off or wait in the parking lot for your friends!"

Again, she explained that she couldn't take her feet out of the cuffs without taking off the whole dress. She was still refused entry.

She went back to the car, and in her terribly pregnant condition, somehow managed to get the outfit off and then get back into it with her ankles out. She took the two cuffs and tied them together so they wouldn't flop around as she walked.

"That's better!" sez the temple worker, "now, you ARE wearing pantyhose under there, aren't you?" She was wearing knee-his, but answered yes anyway. Thankfully, the temple worker didn't feel the need to check just how far up the nylons went, and Sister Due-any-minute was admitted to spend a grueling afternoon, sitting, standing, getting dressed and undressed and playing handshakes at the veil.
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African Temple: Church Leaders Prophesied That Temple Will Bring Prosperity To Nigeria
Tuesday, Jun 14, 2005, at 07:32 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Move over G8 Leaders! Forget about cancelling debt and trade justice for Africa!

The mormons have the answer to prosperity in Africa: Build a Temple!

National Public Affairs Council of the church, President Cornelius Tay comments in the article about the new temple in Africa.

Tay said: "President Hinckley, the prophet and several Apostles of the church have all prophesied concerning Nigeria that with the opening of Aba temple, our nation will be blessed and will witness prosperity and stability."

http://allafrica.com/stories/200506130908.html

Hmmmm...anybody see this "prophesy" from the Church leaders??
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Is That All There Is?
Wednesday, Jun 15, 2005, at 09:26 AM
Original Author(s): Cheeseburger
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Please tell me that, growing up in the church, I did not endure endless patronising comments of, "You'll understand everything better when you get to the temple."--when I just wanted to learn all the secrets RIGHT NOW. (I can't help it; I'm a naturally curious person. Huge secretive things like the temple kept me awake at night.)

Please tell me that I didn't sit through endless lectures about keeping myself morally clean--where they hedged around the issue of sex but never came right out and said anything for sure, leaving me to think that there was some unnameable force (most likely Satan) that would possess me and force me to do vile things with random boys (and which, by the way, took YEARS to undo the thinking that, because I'm a woman, my body was somehow an instrument of evil because of Eve).

When they passed out a "temple handkerchief" in Young Women's, I completely missed the point. It was a pretty little lace-edged hankie, with an accompanying poem, along the lines that this temple hankie was white and pure; it belonged to Heavenly Father, and if it got dirty, it could be washed again, but would never be quite as good as if it had never needed to be washed at all, blah blah blah. I failed to see this as a metaphor for keeping MYSELF morally clean; I worried about the HANKIE getting dirty; I was afraid to touch the thing. I thought God was going to be watching it all the time. I put it on a shelf in my room. Months later, I looked at it, AND IT WAS COVERED WITH DUST!! I was horrified; I quickly put it in my underwear drawer--and just as quickly took it out again, thinking God would REALLY be pissed that I put a temple hankie in with my underwear. I ended up tossing it in with my socks instead. I still have it to this day; it has the creases where it was folded nearly twenty years ago, and is just showing its age a bit. (Now that I think about it, I would very much like to burn that stupid hankie.)

I left the church when I was eighteen, and my only regret was that I had not gone through the temple, just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm sorry, but they tout it like it's the pinnacle of life here on Earth; if you can't make it there, you can't make it anywhere.

Well. I had read Jerald and Sandra Tanner's book, 'Mormonism, Shadow or Reality?' and enjoyed reading the bit about the temple ceremony. That went a little way to easing my curiosity, but to be honest, it gave me the creeps after only a few lines, and I only skimmed it a bit.

I wrote a post here the other day, for fun, saying that I was feeling really left out because other people had their temple names and experiences. Susan D. (thank you, btw) left a link to a web page with the entire temple ceremony, so I finally read the whole thing.

Let me get this straight: I endured pretty much constant guilt from the time I was twelve, all through my teens, about being morally clean--which I WAS, my parents never ever told me about sex (still haven't, lol) so I was afraid almost to kiss my *two* boyfriends, much less do any other nebulous thing I only half understood with them--and all this, so that I could go to the temple and WATCH A VIDEO???!!?!?! I thought there would be angels ascending and descending, like Jacob's ladder; I thought you could commune with God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, whenever you wanted. The secrets of the very universe would be spread at my feet. I. Did. Not. Think. You. Went. To. The. Temple. TO WATCH A VIDEO!!!

Yes, yes. You also get to wear stupid-looking clothes and practise idiotic handshakes. Watch out!! I know them now; I'll get through the veil, mormon or not!!

What a complete, disappointing, fucking FARCE.

Thank you, to Susan D., for the webpage; and thank you to Shakey, who gave me my favourite new temple name as a consolation prize, Jezabel. I'll wear it like a badge of honour; it fits.

And thank you most of all to EVE, the mother of all living people. Most likely you were an ape, but if you weren't, and instead were a woman created from the rib of a man, I want to say thank you. You did the right thing eating the fruit. Most likely, Satan was a lot more interesting person than that doofus Adam. If you hadn't eaten that fruit, the rest of us wouldn't be in this mad, bad, beautiful broken world. I don't blame you for eating the fruit; I would have done the same thing.
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My True Story Of Walking Out Of My Endowment Session
Wednesday, Jul 6, 2005, at 07:55 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
This is my first post to RFM after 13 years of inactivity. I'm thinking of removing my name now. I just didn't care for all these years.......

It is true that I completely removed myself from the endowment ceremony in 1991. I was called to Colombia Bogota mission while at BYU in "Deseret Towers - R Hall" to be exact.

I was leery of the mission, but hey colombia sounded like a great experience.

Speed up til May 1991 one month before the MTC. My parents and I were having discussions about the temple. I was very nervous and had many questions. I wondered why not much information was available to the virgin temple goers. Why was it so hush hush?.

My mom tried to explain it me and used words like gowns, annointing of the body and sacred rituals. My dad just told me it would be a new and exciting time in my life. Nevertheless (phrasing BOM) I was utterly confused.

I didn't have any resources available, but one friend who had gone through and had told me it was really weird and awkward. He wouldn't say anything else even after bugging him over and over. What was so secret? I kept thinking about it and why GOD would want to keep it so sacred. I was also studying the new testament and tried to find clues to temples and endowments, etc. I couldn't find my answer there either.

I spoke with my Bishop and he said I had common symptons of many first time temple goers. I felt some assurance with his answer, then again I was 19 and kind of moldable.

The day came and I went into the dressing room. I was handed a shawl like poncho gown. It was bizarre and was led into the initiatory phase. Man I was freaking out. What the F was going happen? My heart was racing. I got to the area and a couple of old brothers began their oil sponge bath. I was very uncomfortable and upset. Why wasn't I told about this?

I finally got dressed to go into the endowment. I had my "pink" tag on and was led from the chapel to the endowment room and was led to the front row.

Then it was quiet and I heard on the overhead speakers the uttering a few simple instructions and then the request if any would withdraw please raise your hands. I can't remember the exact words, but something like that.

I thought for a split second. I raised my hand and the usher came over. He whispered in my ear if I was requesting to be escorted out. I said "yes, I prefer to not participate". A blank look came across his face. He motioned for me to come with him and we went out of the room. My mom and dad were almost frozen.

Out in the hall, he asked me if I was uncomfortable or not felling well. I told him I would prefer not to participate in the ordinance until I understood what it was about.

He ushered my back to the dressing room, quiet as a church mouse. He probably was in disbelief about it all.

2 hours later, I was waiting for my parents in the foyer. They were devastated. My mom was crying and my dad was very perplexed.

They asked me what happened and I told them I felt uncomfortbale and unsure of the oridinance. I had a few weeks to re-decide my endowment and my mission, but each day I got further away from the mission plans. My MTC date came and passed and then a year and two and three.

I don't regret my decision. I didn't do it out of disbelief. I did it because I felt weird. Years later I stumbled across this site and have been a silent lurker ever since.

For 13 years I considered myself inactive. I drank a few beers, got a great career and lived life. I married a non-mormon and we are happy.

I made the right decision from some of the stories i have read.
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No More Painted Tonails In The Temple
Friday, Jul 15, 2005, at 10:48 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Sorry if this has already been posted.

This week a friend told me that they had been instructed to not have painted tonails when attending the temple. I'm not sure if this is church wide, or just her local temple that is issuing the directive.

At first I was trying to think why this mattered, as I couldn't remember ever seeing a woman's tonails in the temple. But I guess when doing initiatory work or baptisms, ones tonails might actually be showing. So now, they can't be painted.

I'm bewildered as I try to understand what the motivation is here. Are painted tonails a show of too much worldliness?

Things just keep getting stranger and stranger...
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The Celestial Room Sucks! Aka 2 Star Hotel Lobby With Plastic Plants
Wednesday, Jul 20, 2005, at 09:44 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
As I was growing up and preparing for my "wonderful, special, sacred-but-secret" temple experience I was told in glowing terms how wonderful one feels in the celestial room. In all actuality its just a big room with white furniture. GAG!

Before my exit from the morg I went to the temple for what was my final endowment. Upon exiting the sheet-like drapery with funny symbols I paused as we usually did in the celestial room of the Las Vegas temple. It was the same as it always was, except there was a cheapness to it all. It seemed, well, utterly trite and rather cheap. The plants were plastic - the kind that LOOK plastic and inexpensive, mold-extruded crappy plants from china. Although the furniture was decent it also had a worn-out look reminiscent of the eighties.

I had no "this place is awesome" feeling, thats for sure. I had a "whats the big deal" feeling. I have been through many temples many times. Upon reflection I have come to the same conclusion about all of the temples, and that is that the celestial room is akin to a 2 star hotel lobby.
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Married In The Temple, To Each Other, Are You Sure? Where's The Love?
Sunday, Sep 4, 2005, at 08:21 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
After passing two interviews to get the temple recommend-- (see Temple Recommend Questions here: http://www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/... either on the day of the marriage, or earlier, and going through the Endowment Ceremony: Washing and Anointing ceremony where the Holy Garment of the Priesthood (notice ladies, you wear the same garment of the Holy Priesthood!), is placed on you and covenanting to obey:

The Law of Obedience
The Law of Sacrifice
The Law of the Gospel
The Law of Chastity
The Law of Consecration --which is:(I am only including this particular one on this post as it has it directly applies to the marriage covenant.)

A couple will now come to the altar. We are instructed to give unto you the Law of Consecration as contained in the book of Doctrine and Covenants, in connection with the Law of the Gospel and the Law of Sacrifice which you have already received.

It is that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

All arise. Each of you bring your right arm to the square.
You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.


Each of you bow your head and say "yes."

Then and only then may you be sealed in the marriage ceremony.
Here is the ceremony.
Sometimes, the officiator will allow an exchange of rings at the end of the ceremony, and a kiss.
(I don't know the current policy on this practice. Maybe someone else does.)

Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] please join hands in the Patriarchal Grip or Sure Sign of the Nail.

Marriage Couple:
Joins hands in the "Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail."This token is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. No clothing should interfere with the contact of the forefinger upon the wrist.

Officiator: Brother ______, do you take Sister ______ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Groom: Yes.

Officiator: Sister ______ do you take brother ______ by the right hand and give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband, for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Bride: Yes.

Officiator:
By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.


To make sure one understands exactly what the "New and Everlasting Covenant" is, see: DandC 132

REFERENCE for easy reading: http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507.
Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

[INSERT: compare introduction to the 1969 edition of the Book of Mormon.

Here's the 1969 version:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives.

-------The Prophet’s inquiry of the Lord--He is told to prepare himself to receive the new and everlasting covenant--Conditions of this law--The power of the Holy Priesthood instituted by the Lord must be operative in ordinances to be in effect beyond the grave--
Marriage by secular authority is of effect during mortality only--Though the form of marriage should make it appear to be for time and eternity, the ordinance is not valid beyond the grave unless solemnized by the authority of the Holy Priesthood as the Lord directs--
Marriage duly authorized for time and eternity to be attended by surpassing blessings--E
ssentials for the attainment of the status of godhood -- The meaning of eternal lives--Plurality of wives acceptable only when commanded by the Lord--The sin of adultery--Commandment to Emma Smith, wife of the prophet.


http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132
1981 edition:
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant;
7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth;
15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods;
21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives;
26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost;
28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages;
40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven;
48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation;
51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true;
58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.


Did you catch it? Celestial Marriage is Plurality of Wives! The Mormon Church has never, ever stopped practicing their law that applies to polygamy or plurality of wives as that is what Celestial Marriage (The New and Everlasting Covenant) is!

Did you notice that the marriage sealing ceremony not only continues the practice of polygamy, and, because of the covenant of the Law of Consecration, married you to the church and it's commandments by covenant, not each other?

Investigators BEWARE:
Demand full disclosure for informed consent. You won't get it from the Mormon Church, so do your own research.

Know what you are doing, and what it really means!

Not one of us knew what we were going to promise by covenant before we went to the temple the first time. No one ever does. It is considered so sacred that it is not to be talked about.

The only part that meets the requirement of the law, that I can find is:
authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife
Without that wording, the ceremony would not be legally binding in the US.

What we will do in the name of pleasing a God!

It was not until I left Mormonism, a few years ago, that I finally found out what I had done, and the meaning of the covenants, where they came from, and that we all had commited our lives to the Mormon Church and to Celestial Marriage which is plurity of wives!

It is long past time the Mormon Church started telling the truth and give full disclosure for informed consent.

Because of this lack of integrity on their part, I won't ever trust them again. The Mormon Church is not worthy of my love, trust, time, or service.
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Temple Ceremony --Slit Throat, Disembowel Gut Before Revealing Temple Secrets
Tuesday, Sep 13, 2005, at 07:12 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I went through the temple without having the slightest idea of what I was about to hear, see, do, or promise---as many of you have done.

I cannot imagine buying a car, a computer, heck even a toaster without knowing the specs on it.

Yet, the Morg expects people to make promises as they go through it the first time....not even knowing what you are promising.....hells bells, they don't tell you jack shit about the reality of the church even when you are deep into it.

Heck, most of us may not even have found out about the lies until around the time we left.

And back in the 70's you were supposed to make signs of slitting your throat or disemboweling yourself and making this huge promise before your even knew what you were doing?

Or...even worse scenario....you are getting married, and you need to get through the ceremony so you can go get hitched, pictures taken, a reception, etc. A young bride knows that if she balks at making the sign she is just being shown, that it will be one horrible day....so do what they say, even though you just got a new name, slit your throat, professed to keep secrets --which you are not sure of their meaning---Ahhhhhhhhh......

The insanity of the whole temple ceremony in the 70's freaked me out BAD. i don't have any idea what they do today, but what they did back then was awful.

imagine the early years of the church where they had to promise to avenge the blood of JS. good hell, I am surprised that anybody stayed in the Morg.
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The Temple: Where All The Ills Of Mormonism Are Magnified And Amplified
Wednesday, Oct 5, 2005, at 10:08 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
One of the greatest things about leaving the church is leaving the temple. Everything I dislike about the church is represented in the extreme at the temple. For example:
  • Exclusion from God's favor. Church doctrine won't let you into heaven if you aren't a behaving mormon. Well the temple won't even let you in the building that gets you to heaven if you're not a behaving mormon.
  • Literal acceptance of Adam and Eve and the creation story. In church, they might mention it, but in the temple, you get to watch a really long movie all about it!
  • The belief in a hateful Satan who hates us all and wants to destroy us. In church he's an occasional subject; in the temple, he's one of the stars of the show! And he gets to threaten you directly!
  • The desire that everyone be the same. In the church you at least get to pick the color of your pants and tie. In the temple, it's all white!
  • Kooky space doctrines. You might hear a word or two in hushed tones in Elder's Quorum, but in the temple you actually get to see God hanging out on Kolob itself!
  • Lack of variety. At church if you get bored you can just get up and go hang out in the foyer for a while or start doodling. In the temple, all you can do is stare at Eve, wonder again how much she was really wearing when they filmed it, and fight to stay awake.
  • The viel of silence around those who doubt. There's little room for dissent or doubt at church, and few ever admit to doubting. At the temple those same doubts are even harder to ignore, yet you're even less welcome to behave as though you have doubt. This is probably the worst one for me.
I could go on. Anyone have any to add?

I can't say it enough: I'm so glad I'm never going back.
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Temple Update Brought To You By "The Spirit"
Wednesday, Oct 5, 2005, at 10:13 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
So seems like "The Spirit" is having a bit of a time communicating with the Temple Committee of late.

Apparently the crew that did the last 4 temples managed to screw things up all royal like. The gold leaf that is put in the celestial rooms and on some of the (godawful) furniture was put on incorrectly. I was told that when gold leaf is put on, it's not just glued on, but rather put on with an electrical charge that actually imbeds it into the material. The crew that has been marching around gilding these temples only used 1/2 of the charge that should have been used and the shit is falling off. The cult members tried to glue it back on, but it just turned green.

the temples that were mentioned were in Samoa and Newport Beach. The others were not mentioned by name, but i'd guess the last 4 that were dedicated. This info comes from a member of the Temple Committee back from meetings in SLC over the weekend. Of course you understand why anon today - not that i even post that often. The "church" is really pissed at this turn of events he said.

Sooooo, now TSCC will be shutting down these temples for about a week to re-leaf the offending portions to the tune of OVER A MILLION of their precious tithing dollars. HA! Stupid Spirit! could have saved a lot of work and a lot of money, but he was to busy working out (The Spirit is SOOO STRONG).
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Cant Believe I Actually Took Part In That Hilarious Apron Ceremony In The Temple
Monday, Dec 12, 2005, at 07:25 AM
Original Author(s): Behindtheveilisthetoilet
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
.....LUCIFER: Well, Adam, you have a new world here.

ADAM: A new world?

LUCIFER: Yes, a new world, patterned after the old one where we used to live.

ADAM: I know nothing about any other world.

LUCIFER: Oh, I see, your eyes are not yet opened. You have forgotten everything. You must eat some of the fruit of this tree.

(Lucifer plucks two pieces of fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and presents it to Adam.)

LUCIFER: Adam, here is some of the fruit of that tree. It will make you wise.

ADAM: I will not partake of that fruit. Father told me that in the day I should partake of it I should surely die.

LUCIFER: You shall not surely die but shall be as the Gods, knowing good and evil.

ADAM: I will not partake of it.

LUCIFER: Oh you will not? Well, we shall see.

(Adam leaves, and Lucifer walks over to Eve, who is tending flowers.)

LUCIFER: Eve, here is some of the fruit of that tree. It will make you wise. It is delicious to the taste and very desirable.

EVE: Who are you?

LUCIFER: I am your brother.

EVE: You, my brother, and come here to persuade me to disobey Father?

LUCIFER: I have said nothing about Father. I want you to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, that your eyes may be opened, for that is the way Father gained his knowledge. You must eat of this fruit so as to comprehend that everything has its opposite: good and evil, virtue and vice, light and darkness, health and sickness, pleasure and pain; and thus your eyes will be opened and you will have knowledge.

EVE: Is there no other way?

LUCIFER: There is no other way.

EVE: Then I will partake.

(Eve takes the fruit from Lucifer, and bites it. Lucifer approves and places the other piece in her hand, which he closes around it and pats gently.)

LUCIFER:; There, now go and get Adam to partake.

(Eve approaches Adam, fruit in hand, and presents it to him with a persuasive tone of voice.)

EVE: Adam, here is some of the fruit of that tree. It is delicious to the taste and very desirable.

ADAM: Eve, do you know what fruit that is?

EVE: Yes, it is the fruit if the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

ADAM: I cannot partake of it. Do you not know that Father commanded us not to partake of the fruit of that tree?

EVE: Do you intend to obey all of Father's commandments?

ADAM: Yes, all of them.

EVE: Do you not recollect that Father commanded us to multiply and replenish the earth? I have partaken of this fruit and by so doing shall be cast out, and you will be left a lone man in the garden of Eden.

ADAM: Eve, I see that this must be so. I will partake that man may be.

(Adam takes a bite, and Lucifer walks to their side with a look of approval.)

LUCIFER: That is right.

EVE: It is better for us to pass through sorrow that we may know the good from the evil.

EVE: I know thee now. Thou art Lucifer, he who was cast out of Father's presence for rebellion.

LUCIFER: Yes, you are beginning to see already.

ADAM: What is that apron you have on?

LUCIFER: It is an emblem of my power and Priesthoods.

ADAM: Priesthoods?

LUCIFER: Yes, Priesthoods.

ADAM: I am looking for Father to come down to give us further instructions.

LUCIFER: Oh, you are looking for Father to come down, are you?

(The Gods' voices are suddenly heard in the garden, reverberating through the air.)

ELOHIM: Jehovah, we promised Adam that we would visit him and give him further instructions. Come, let us go down.

JEHOVAH: We will go down, Elohim.

ADAM: I hear their voices, they are coming.

LUCIFER: See, you are naked. Take some fig leaves and make you aprons. Father will see your nakedness. Quick! Hide!

ADAM: Come, let us hide.

NARRATOR: Brethren and sisters, put on your aprons...."

OMG, cant believe I actually took part in that hilarious apron ceremony in the temple!!
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My Top 20 Temple Doctrine Questions
Friday, Dec 30, 2005, at 08:06 AM
Original Author(s): Deconstructor
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Even as a True Believing Mormon, I often wondered about the temple endowment and how it could possibly make sense.

Here was my list of questions about the temple endowment:

1. Why are the days of creation different than those recorded in the Book of Moses and Genesis? The third and fourth days are backwards in the endowment ceremony.

2. In the Mormon scripture Book of Moses 3:15-25 it says that God commanded the man (Adam) not to eat from the tree of good and evil. God didn't command the woman, because she had not been created yet. So why is the endowment film different than the Mormon scriptural account?

3. How did Peter, James and John get bodies before they were born? Peter shakes Adam's hand, so we know they weren't spirits. According to Joseph Smith's handshake test for discerning evil spirits from good spirits, Peter should have refused to shake Adam's hand (unless he had been resurrected).

4. Satan wears an apron that he says is a symbol of his power and priesthood. Why then does Adam, Eve and the temple congregation moments later obey Satan when he commands them to put on aprons?

5. How could Jesus be on the right hand of God, in physical form looking like his identical twin, when Jesus had not been born or resurrected yet? Jesus says in the Bible and BoM that he wasn't perfected until AFTER the atonement.

6. So was Lucifer a snake as it says in the scriptures, or a man like it shows in the temple?

7. Lucifer picks the apple off the tree and gives it to Eve. But Lucifer doesn't have a body! What's up with that?

8. Where did Lucifer get his preacher that was preaching to Adam and Eve? Was he for real or just a ghost? If just a ghost, why was he dressed as a protestant minister with the collar for Adam and Eve to see?

9a. The Book of Abraham as well as the modern prophets have taught us that the earth was created around the star Kolob. It orbited God's solar system until AFTER the fall, when it was hurled through space and placed in this solar system. This scriptural doctrine contradicts the endowment, where we see the creation of the moon and it mentions our sun and the other planets too. (See http://www.i4m.com/think/lists/mormon...)

9b. If the Kolob doctrine is true, why is this not included in the endowment, which is supposed to be the "Lord's University"?

9c. Why go through the creation story if it is not true and contradicts Mormon doctrine and the Book of Abraham?

10. If the endowment is actual history, then why was it so radically changed in April 1990? Whole sections were altered and others deleted! If the endowment represented real history, how could it change? Was it not true to the actual events all along? Is the new version "more true to history?" (See: http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temp...)

11. In April 1990 the covenants and penalties of the endowment ceremony also changed dramatically. Didn't Jesus say in the scriptures that a sign of false churches is that they change his covenants?

12. Where do you find a clear description of these "laws' mentioned in the temple?
  1. Law of Obedience
  2. Law of Sacrifice
  3. Law of Elohim
  4. Law of the Lord
  5. Law of the Gospel
  6. Law of Chastity
  7. Law of Consecration
Some of those laws that temple patrons covenant to obey are never mentioned or explained outside the temple. If they are literal laws of God that must be obeyed, why are they not all clearly identified and expounded upon in church discourse?

13. What is the difference between "legally" and "lawfully" as said in the temple endowment covenant?

14. Adam raises his arms in the "true order of prayer", and who answers his prayer? Satan. Does this mean Satan can answer even prayers given in the "true order" ordained by God? What prayer is safe from not being intercepted by Satan? (See: http://helpingmormons.org/compare.htm)

15 Did God really send Peter, James and John down to earth and give Adam and Eve those silly temple clothes to wear? They didn't have a temple, so when did Adam and Eve wear them?

16. How could Peter, James and John be involved in the whole thing when they hadn't been born yet, hadn't been baptized and had not been through the temple? They weren't wearing garments themselves, so how could they be worthy to participate in the endowment events?

17. Temple workers stand is as proxys for Elohim and Jehovah during the ceremony, which makes it very sacred. But since someone also stands in as a literal proxy for Satan, doesn't that make the temple unholy?

18. What is the purpose of learning the "true order of prayer" if it can never be practiced outside of the temple ceremony?

19. Why does God require secret handshakes, names and passwords to pass through the veil and enter his presence? Can't God look into our hearts and know whether or not we are worthy?

20. Why are temple patrons required to make death oaths, when they are expressly forbidden by God in Mormon scripture? (see: http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temp...)

20. If the endowment is centered on Jesus Christ, why isn't Christ's two top commandments included in the endowment covenants - love God and love your neighbor? Why isn't there mention of Christ's sermon on the mount or other teachings on charity and compassion?

Did anyone else wonder about this stuff before you realized the whole thing was a fraud?

Did you have other temple questions as a TBM that I missed?
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Anyone Heard Of A Rule Forbidding Certain People From Ever Being Sealed To Their Spouses?
Monday, Jan 9, 2006, at 08:08 AM
Original Author(s): Stupified
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
A woman I know endured a horrible Mormon marriage for years that I won't elaborate on. On the outside, though, people thought they were the perfect TBM family and hubby was (and still is) the world's biggest hypocrite and people thought he was future GA material (but he boinked other women before, during and after their marriage--just lied about it).

When their first child was on a mission wife meets a non-mormon (call him Joe Blow) who was the first person who has paid her any attention in years and she has an affair. Because she felt so guilty, she left her husband and married Joe Blow the day after her divorce was final. Of course, she confessed the whole thing and was ex'd and the ward rallied around poor hubby (who you can't tell me wasn't thrilled that wife left him, but played the martyr card to the hilt).

So wife and Joe Blow are married a couple of years but it doesn't work. She moves on, moves to Utah, gets re-baptized and has her temple blessings restored, and is just doing the Utah singles scene and trying to be a good single TBM. She figures she can put her past behind her.

So she moves into a new ward and gets a call from the bishop asking to meet her and interview her. Early in the interview, the bishop says, "So tell me about Joe Blow." She didn't know where Bishop got Joe's name because he was never a member of the church. Well, the Bishop tells her that on her membership records there is a notation that says "do not allow member to be sealed to Joe Blow."

He said they make those notations because there is a rule that says if a person is ex'd for a moral sin, they can never be sealed in the temple to the person they sinned with (whether they marry that person, whether that person was a member of the church at the time of the sin or anything. It can never happen.) Apparently this is the only reason that a person is ever forbidden from being sealed to any other specific person.

So even though Joe Blow is history, it will always be on her record. Every time she moves into a new ward, the bishop will know she had an affair and was ex'd--even 50 years down the road. Bishops will feel they have a right to bring it up and grill her about her former sinful past. She can tell them until she's blue in the face that she doesn't know where Joe Blow is, doesn't have any contact with him, will never be married to him again, etc. But they will never take that notation off her records, they have to make sure she doesn't think she can ever get around the system.

In other words, she'll wear the scarlet A for the rest of her life.

Has anyone else ever heard of such a rule? Any former bishops know if this is common? Even if Joe Blow had joined the church and they'd lived happily ever after, would they not have been allowed to be sealed?
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Did You Feel Like A "Priestess"In The Temple In That All White Outfit, Veil And Green Apron?
Monday, Jan 9, 2006, at 08:16 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I don't know about the rest of you, but I never felt comfortable in the temple in the required clothing, and especially not in that silly initiatory tunic rag.

Here we were, dressed up in awful clothing that we would never be caught in outside the temple, and somehow, this was sacred clothing and we were anointed to be a priestess to our husbands? What was wrong with that picture?

I was so annoyed with the silliness of the clothing that I made my own dress with pull up sleeves that a were, at least, somewhat stylish for the times.

The temple garb has to be some of the most ridiculous outfits.

If you rented your clothing, you got a nurses uniform, usually a size too large, and white stockings that went over those long white garments that went to your ankles and wrists. We looked like orphans from a foreign country and nobody batted an eye!

The only thing that made it palatable was that everyone else looked as silly and ridiculous as I did!

I still look back and laugh at the goofy things I used to do as a Mormon thinking it was some kind of sacred special requirement for salvation.

All I have to say is that Eloheim - Heavenly Father didn't have any fashion sense with all that so called inspiration !
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Present Generation Of Mormons Claim Removed Aspects Of The Temple Ceremony Are Just "Enemy Rumors"
Monday, Jan 30, 2006, at 07:12 AM
Original Author(s): Code Name: 00job
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
It disturbs me a great deal to hear the present generation of TBMs claim that certain aspects of the temple ceremony that have now been removed are just "enemy rumors." They are not.

So for all you TBM lurkers, here's my "witness," for the record, in re: now deleted parts of the endowment. I was endowed in the SLC Temple in 1973; new name, Job. Washing and anointing was done completely nude, with the initiate covered only in a poncho-like "shield." The ordinance worker told me the completely nude aspect was key, because, not ever being comfortable barefoot, I proceeded to the washing and anointing stall in standard issue white slippers, after donning the shield. He sent me back to my locker to remove the white slippers before he would continue.

The oath and covenant of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd tokens of the Melchezidek Priesthood were made by drawing the extended thumb of the right hand quickly across my throat, chest, and abdomen, respectively. These actions were accompanied by the oath that rather than reveal the respective token, "I would suffer my life to be taken." The narration spoken by the leader of the endowment session (play-acting the role of the New Testament Apostle Peter) was that these actions represented ways "in which life could be taken."

In that period we wore the "old style" garment in the temple; it reached to the wrists and ankles, was finished with a wide, Eton type collar around the neck, and was tied with three sets of strings down the front. The crotch was fully open. Utah Mormons used to call these "ceremonial" or "session" garments, but they were actually the garments worn by all endowed members, at all times, prior to the modification made by Heber J. Grant in the 1930's. The so-called Fundamentalist Mormons still wear this style of garment.

Also, part of the endowment at that time, now removed, was a "preacher" coming out at a certain point, who represented the "teachings of men, mingled with scripture." The preacher was a buffoonish character who proceeded to give a clownish and mocking rendition of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. In a film version of the endowment used in the same era, the preacher was played by Spencer J. Palmer, a professor at BYU and later a friend and colleague of mine. This deliberate mocking of a central aspect of Christian Faith illustrated, and continues to illustrate, the non-Christian, and even anti-Christian, aspect of Mormonism. It also gives the lie to their constant claims of "innocent persecution," as well as their present "we're Christians too" posturing.

Those are things I know first hand. Second hand, much older TBMs at the time confirmed to me the Oath of Vengeance; an expanded, even more ridiculous role for the "preacher," including the singing of a Protestant-style hymn by all present; "Satan" wearing a top hat and masonic apron, both in the style of the presiding officer in a Master Mason's lodge; and a real "flaming sword" being used at the "let cherubim and flaming sword" order to protect the tree of life. The death oaths accompanying the signs and tokens of the Melchezidek priesthood were also even more graphic. They were, in fact, the words that are still used in the Blue Lodge Masonic ceremony today: briefly, "my tongue to be torn out," "my heart to be torn from my breast," "my entrails to be spilled."

There's a lot more, but you can see the pattern. TBM's, you've been lied to about your most recent history. What then, will you make of the whole Joe Smith history you've been told?
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Weird Contradiction Between Mormon Pre-Existence Doctrine And Eternal Family Doctrine
Wednesday, Mar 8, 2006, at 08:00 AM
Original Author(s): Nigel King
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Am I the only one who thinks that the pre-existence doctrine (as illustrated by the Saturday's Warriors drama) is in conflict with the doctrine of eternal families (as embodied in the temple-based doctrine of sealings and eternal families)?

Pre-existence doctrine:

There were great spirits and lesser spirits in the pre-existence.

Many of the most valiant and top leaders in the pre-existence were saved for the "last days", when their superior spiritual strength would be badly needed.

"Friends" and loved ones in the pre-existence agreed to form family relationships as needed to help each other fulfill their special missions on earth. This implied that sometimes a higher-ranking spirit would come to earth as the child of a lower-ranking spirit--particularly since the most valiant are generally reserved for the last days.

Temple/Eternal Family Doctrine:

Family hierarchies are made permanent based upon family relationships in this life. This implies that a father will always be above son in the patriarchal/priesthood hierarchy, and so on all the way down the patriarchal line.

Although never stated (probably because the eternal family doctrine developed without careful consideration of the pre-existence doctrine), this would also imply that any of the super-valiant spirits ("generals in the war in heaven") must become eternally subordinate to less-valiant spirits (one's who came earlier, but have higher standing in the patriarchal order simply by virtue of the order of birth on earth).

Don't these two lines of doctrine seem to be out of whack and inconsistent with each other? Has this ever been discussed in a gospel doctrine class context? It just seems to me that the pre-existence doctrine contemplates family and other relationships, including birth order and time period of one's mission on earth, as arrangements designed primarily to serve earthly mission requirements.

This seems to be at odds with the eternal family doctrine, which is focused on eternally locking people into superior and inferior positions in a permanent patriarchal hierarchy, based solely on the order of their arrival on earth and getting sealed into the patriarchal order of whatever LDS family they born into.

Great grandpa Buddy Bilgebutt could have been only a seargant in the war in heaven, but thanks to the eternal family doctrine and patriarchal order, he will eternally outrank the super-valiant spirit who arrived in the last days as his great grandson, Freddy Bilgebutt, even though Freddy's spirt was a 5-star general in the war in heaven. Make much sense?
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The Truth About Mormon Temple Divorce Rates
Friday, Mar 10, 2006, at 07:37 AM
Original Author(s): Deconstructor
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
A well-known TBM lurker has claimed that "Mormon marriages solemnized in the temple enjoy a divorce rate significantly lower than the national average."

The same could probably be said for JWs, Seventh-Day adventists and many other churches compared to the national average.

But what is the divorce rate of temple marriages?

Here's a factoid from Michael Quinn's book Mormon The Mormon Hierarchy : Extensions of Power:

"26 Jan, 1942 - First Counselor J. Reuben Clark tells reporter for Look Magazine: "Our divorces are piling up." Church Historian's Office in 1968 compiles divorce statistics since 1910 for temple marriages, "church civil" marriages, and "other civil" marriages. Although temple marriages have lowest divorce rate of the three categories, in 1910 there was one "temple divorce" for every 66 temple marriages performed that year., 1:41 in 1915, 1:34 in 1920, 1:27 in 1925, 1:30 in 1930, 1:23 in 1935, 1:27 in 1939, 1:17 in 1945, 1:31 in 1950, 1:30 in 1955, 1:19 in 1960 and 1965. Last rate for temple divorce is almost ten times higher than Utah's civil divorce rate a century earlier."

Quinn lists the temple divorce rate up until 1965 (1 divorce in every 19 temple marriages).

In a 1975 General Conference address, church President Spencer W. Kimball complained again about the high rate of temple divorces:

"We note the great increase in divorces. ... Our study reveals the fact that all too often it is because of their immoralities and their idolatrous worship of the god of lust. It is hard indeed to justify in one small city not far from us 272 divorces in the same time that 341 marriage licenses were given."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, Spring 1975 General Conference, see also Ensign, May 1975, page 4

Michael Quinn also documents how bad temple marriages were in the late 1800's:

"27 Feb, 1889 - LDS political newspaper Salt Lake Herald's article titled, "FAILED MARRIAGES," regarding "the report of the Labor Commissioner Wright, presented last week, on the statistics of marriage and divorce in the United States from 1867 to 1886 inclusive," with following: In 1870 Utah had highest rate of divorce out of all states and territories. In 1870 Utah's rate was one divorce per 185 marriages. National averages was 1:664. States with lowest divorce rates are South Carolina at 1:4,938, Delaware at 1:123,672, New Mexico at 1:16,077, North Carolina at 1:4,938, and Louisiana at 1:4,579. In 1880 Utah had tenth highest rate of divorce out of all states and territories. In 1880 Utah's rate was one divorce per 219 marriages, which was more than twice the national average of 1:479. In twentieth century, divorce rates for LDS temple marriages starts out three times higher than this "divorce mill" rate for early Utah civil marriages.

Temple marriages were statistically a disaster for the early Saints who suffered under the "Celestial Marriage" doctrine of Mormonism. No surprise that by 1965 the temple divorce rate was 1 in 19.

Temple marriages contain a paradox. On one hand, you'd expect temple divorce rates to be lower than the national average - not because they are happier, but because the social pressure to stay in a temple marriage is much higher.

On the other hand, Mormons have a tendency to marry for the wrong reasons, to an incompatible spouse and with added church demands. Add to that the judgmental nature of the Mormon mentality and you get self-loathing and criticism of your spouse. When striving for "worthiness" doesn't make them happy, temple marriages end in divorce. This could explain the high rate of 1 in 19 temple marriages ending in divorce.

That rate may not be high compared to the national average, but it seems high for "eternal marriages" blessed with "priesthood power" and the "blessings" of the gospel. You'd think all that tithing and church activity would bless these marriages to stay together more.

So there seems to be a paradox in Mormon temple marriage. Theoretically it can make couples stay together, even when it's not working out. But at the same time, the temple marriage doctrine and the Mormon mindset can doom a marriage.

Look at the average TBM temple-marriage couple:

- They turn over 10% of their income to the church
- They turn over lots of family time over to church callings, meetings and study
- They, on average, have more kids and at an earlier time
- They turn over their adult lives to the church to give them direction, council and purpose
- They buy into rigid gender roles and unrealistic expectations

And what do couples get in return? How does any of that REALLY help a marriage? I would argue that the above things don't lead to blessings, but are actually burdens.

This was certainly the case in my marriage. It's been better than ever since we left the church. We have more family money, time and purpose. We have less marital strife from all those expectations and mindless obeying what the GAs say. The sex went from good to great.

On top of it all, when you learn that Smith stole the concept of a "Celestial Kingdom" from a 17th century writer, you realize the after-death payoff is make believe! If the church can't ultimately deliver on its promises of Godhood and celestial glory with infinite increase, then the whole thing is a scam to make someone else rich and powerful.

Temple marriage isn't about making people happier or even saving them. It's about serving the Mormon machine and making your family into a mini-cult that works just like the church.

No wonder it doesn't work out as well as advertised.
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Patriarchial Death Grip: The Temple Recommend Interview
Thursday, Mar 16, 2006, at 07:27 AM
Original Author(s): Darwin Girl
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
It recently occured to me that some people visiting this board had a much different experience in the Mormon religion than me. Recently I learned, for instance, that Mormons sneak Cosmopolitan drinks and wear Victoria Secret lingerie.

I guess I really missed out.

Am I that unusual, however, when it comes to TBMs?

I took the WHOLE thing seriously. I mean I actually kept the word of wisdom (except for Diet Coke). I went to tithing settlement and felt awful if I paid 9% instead of 10%.

I faithfully attended the temple and submitted to the ULTIMATE mind control exercise: the annual temple recommend interview. Can you think of anything more cultish than the temple recommend interview?

When asked if I associated with enemies of the church, I sheepishly admitted to being a Democrat (Since leaving the church I've also changed my views).

I mean, I actually believed I had to wear the approved garment 24/7, and empowered some old codger to ask me if I wore the correct underwear!!!

Do you realize how psychologically damaging that actually is? To willingly give someone else the authority to dictate what goes on your body, especially what covers your intimate parts?

My never-Mo girlfriends have been very helpful in de-programming me from the LDS non-sense. I have to ask them the simplest things. It's like I'm a teenager again and learning how to be a real woman for the first time.

I thought I was over all the damage from LDS Inc. But sometimes there are layers we have to work through. I know I'm over the initial phase of anger toward the church. Now I'm just trying to mend some still-broken pieces, trying to reclaim my autonomy and sexuality.

The worst part of it all? I accepted the "patriarchial death grip" and all the other shit as if it were NORMAL!

It gives me the creeps just thinking about the questions that I willingly answered ... so truthfully.
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My Shocking First Mormon Temple Experience
Monday, Mar 20, 2006, at 07:45 AM
Original Author(s): Deconstructor
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Before I went to the temple for the first time, I took those temple preparation classes. After the classes, I really thought the temple was all about Jesus Christ.

They don't give you any real details in those prep classes and none of my TBM family or friends would tell me either. All I knew was that the endowment included a play/movie "about Jesus" and people made covenants to "be more Christlike."

So I entered the temple all excited, expecting the endowment to be about the ministry of Jesus Christ. Perhaps they would enact the Sermon on the Mount, I thought. Or maybe they would show the Last Supper and have us participate as disciples. Or maybe they would portray other scenes in Christ's ministry that were lost to time that revealed deeper meanings.

Above all, I expected the covenants to be related to Christ's ministry - helping the poor and the sick, forgiving others, loving one another. I imagined that I'd see some of Christ's parables enacted, and then make a covenant to do as Jesus taught. For example, covenant to be a good samaritan or forgive the prodigal sons among us or something like that.

Yes, I was naive. I had just finished reading the four gospels and the image of Christ's life and his message were so vivid in my mind. I imagined the temple would be an extension of the main things Jesus wanted us to do.

My first time was through the Salt Lake Temple, where they still do "live" sessions. What a dissapointment! Not only was the endowment far removed from the New Testament Jesus Christ, it didn't even have anything to do with what Jesus taught the people in the Book of Mormon either.

Even worse, "Jehovah" hardly even had any real speaking parts. He's nothing more than a glorified messenger boy, shuttling messages between Peter, James and John and Elohim. Satan, on the other hand, is the star of the show. He tells the temple patrons to put on their aprons and everybody does it! Now that's power!

There's no way anyone could honestly argue that the Mormon Temple is a bastion of Christianity or Jesus Christ. Mormons get more Jesus Christ out of a 15-second canned sacrament blessing than they do in the two-hour temple endowment ceremony.

If you look into the origins of the temple ceremony, this all makes a lot more sense:

http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temple_legacy.htm

Am I the only one who felt disapointed by their first temple experience?
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Walking Through The Veil
Tuesday, Apr 25, 2006, at 07:12 AM
Original Author(s): Bashful
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I vividly recall the day that I went through the temple for the first time.

I was expecting some weirdness, because I had some friends that actually broke into tears after they received their endowments. (They told me that these were tears from being freaked out. Not tears of joy.)

Anyway, I don't want to turn this post into my memoirs, but I do want to say that I have NEVER felt such a let down as I did when I went through the veil for the first time.

As I sat through the entire ceremony, I kept thinking about how wonderful it would be finally sit in the celestial room and speak with my family about the mysteries of God. But by the time I went through the veil, I felt shell shocked. I didn't feel the spirit of anything but confusion and distress.

My family was waiting for me at the other side of the veil and they all hugged me like I had just done something great. I had to force a smile and wondered what I was missing. I felt empty.

To top it all off, we didn't have a chance to talk about God or ANYTHING for that matter after the session. We were ushered out of the celestial room so quickly, you would have thought that it was simply an overly decorated hallway.

Whatever happened to feeling peace, praying, meditating, etc...?

I believe I have felt more of the spirit meditating in nature than I have ever felt within the gilded walls of any LDS temple.
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Wow, I Wore My Temple Clothing For My Kids To See!
Monday, May 1, 2006, at 07:38 AM
Original Author(s): Because It Is Secret, I Mean Sacred!
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
So even though we have been out of the church for several months my kids continue to ask questions about the church.

The discussion yesterday was the temple and the freemasons. My older son is currently reading Dan Brown's "Angels and Demon's" and is very intrigued by the masonic symbols etc.. So he and my younger daughter began asking about the temple and what goes on in it.

Last year I found a freemason site with pictures of men in some of the freemason ceremonial clothing. My kids thought it was weird stuff. I explained then that the morg temple clothing was "similar".

So yesterday I decided to dress up in the complete temple clothing so they could see it. My daughter was floored and kept asking if I was lying about having to wear this crap. My boys thought it was totally funny. I told them that had they stayed in the church they would have been wearing that stuff in 4-5 years. They then gave me a hug and thanked me for helping them "out"!

I am sure some will be offended by me doing this but too bad. Should my kids EVER decide to rejoin as adults, they will be well informed on what to expect and not be coerced into it with false promises of "further light and knowledge" as most of us were.

PS My wife knows I did it, thinks I was goofy but agreed that our kids should be very informed.
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How Many Have Participated In The "Hosanna Shout"?
Thursday, May 4, 2006, at 07:50 AM
Original Author(s): Numlock
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
A mention on the seminary thread got me thinking.

I've participated in the Hosanna Shout on two occasions, The dedications of the Washington D.C. and Bountiful temples.

At Washington D.C. I was 17 years-old. I had heard that the "shout" was a joyous and enthusiastic "ordinance". Both times it was dull and boring. It sounded really morose with all the joy sucked out of it.

As you wave a white handkerchief the words are spoken in unison by the congregation, "Hosanna, Hosanna, Hosanna to God and The Lamb" (Repeated three times).

I watched part of the conference center dedication while I was living in SoCal and Hinckley led it in SLC. I had never heard of it being done outside a temple until then. It was televised on cable for anybody to see. Before it was performed he said that it was a tradition held as sacred by LDS members and asked that anybody else watching not to mock it.

Have you performed the Hosanna Shout?
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Mormon God = Macabre God?
Monday, May 15, 2006, at 08:42 AM
Original Author(s): Grey Matter
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I wonder why the early mormons chose such a macabre god to worship.

When the mormon god revealed his temple ceremony to his mormon prophets seers and revelators, you'd think the alarm bells would have started ringing and that they would have looked for another kinder, gentler god. But they didn't. They were happy with this grim, gory, gruesome god of darkness. To each cult it's own, I suppose.

In the early god-given temple endowment, there were various blood and death oaths, gifts given from the grim mormon-god to his mormon subjects.

For example,

The mormon god's diabolist, death oaths:

# 1 - First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood

"... we agree that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by our roots."

# 2 - Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood

"... we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn out from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

# 3 - First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood

"we agree that our bodies be cut asunder in the midst and all our bowels gush out."

Now, it turns out that the mormon god is also a muddled god.

The macabre mormon-god told his mormon prophets seers and revelators that the endowment and temple cult-rituals would never change. In the words of Joseph Smith:

"Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed"

Well, it turns out that in his old years, the mormon once-man, now-god god is developing Alzheimer's or something like that. The macabre god, with his now muddled mind, has forgotten about his promises never to chop or change the cult-rituals. The gruesome mormon-god has wobbled on the weird wording and graphic gore, ordering his mormon prophets seers and revelators, and temple cult-ritual script writers to slaughter chunks of the solemn and sacred ceremony.

In fact, the original non-changing rituals have now been changed numerous times over the years, each time the change being a dilution in the demonic deliberations, and from 1990, all traces of the gruesome god-given death oaths were themselves gutted and destroyed.

Still, it fills us with love, peace and heart-filled gratitude that we were ever blessed to be part of that pietistic pantomime doesn't it?

Sources:

1. Reed Smoot Hearings, 1907, U.S. Senate Document 486

2. "Endowment Oaths and Ceremonies", Salt Lake Tribune, February 8, 1906

3. http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temp...

4. http://lds-mormon.com/veilworker/pena...

Yes folks, it's on all the public record.
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My Temple Experience
Friday, May 19, 2006, at 07:45 AM
Original Author(s): Antishock8
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
As you know one thing you have to do before you can server a mission is to take out your endowments (where exactly does one take them, anyway?). So. I had to go to the temple. My friend, who would actually get the pleasure of serving in France, had gone through the temple a few months prior to me. All he had to say was that it took some getting used (in reference to the garments). I asked him if he felt different, and he said no, except for the garments. He actually seemed rather blasι about the whole thing. Like many others I received no formal instruction about the temple. My whole life I heard that it was the pinnacle of spiritual experiences, a place where sometimes the Lord and His hosts visit to bestow further light and knowledge on those do their work for the dead there. It was a literal bridge between this temporal existence, and the spiritual world to come. I was excited, a bit nervous, but like a naοve child, expecting only another Sunday worship service; just this time a little more spiritual. Remember, I was 19, totally uninformed about the temple... just wanting to do the right thing...

The first thing I had to do was get the packet of clothes. I peeked inside and was struck with curiosity about the green piece of silk. I asked my dad what it was, and he said don’t worry about it; I’d need it in the endowment session. I then went to a changing room, said a prayer, and changed into a white poncho thing. I felt extremely vulnerable as I went into this partition, and this old man mumbled some words, touched me on my thigh, rib cage, and somewhere else (I can’t remember the specifics, but to be sure I was not molested. In other words my genitalia were never groped, fondled, touched, or brushed by anyone.). I felt that this was a really strange situation that was unfolding before me, but I just went with it. I was sure things were going to get better. Well, they didn’t. In fact I became horrified rather quickly.

Much of my endowment session was a blur. I remember the film, I remember people changing into strange and slightly disturbing outfits (bakers with robes complimented by a green apron is the only way I can describe the way we looked). It was then that the question was asked. Something to the effect that if we didn’t want to go any further, we should then leave. My mom and dad looked at me. I knew they could see my stunned faced. They tried to look at me and smile, but I could tell that they knew I was about to bolt. My heart was racing. God I wanted to leave. Run Lance run! Run! GO NOW! But I didn’t. I crumbled under the peer pressure of having my parents’ friends there. I crumbled under the pressure of being the “last great hope” because my siblings had left the Church. I knew that if I were to leave, my mother’s heart would have been broken, and that I had failed her. I couldn’t bear to imagine her weeping at the thought that I too had rejected the gospel. No. I stayed. We made slashing gestures across our throats and abdomens. We made symbols, and promised to place the Kingdom of God before everything else in our lives. I met some man at the veil, we made the five points of contact, and he pulled me through the veil. I went to the Celestial Room. There was a mirror there, and the boy that was staring back at me was scared, in shock, and devastated. All I could think was, “But the Book of Mormon is true.” It’s true. I know it is. I can’t think about this right now. Put it away. Don’t think about the temple. The church is true. It’s true. It’s true. I know it is. God, why? Why?!

The Church isn't true. It's not, and the temple is a blessing in disguise because the feelings you have right now about that experience are the very feelings that are going to wake you up to reality. And reality is that the Church is just a goofy man-made organization that is bumbling along with no real meaning outside that which you attach to it. The temple was scary. Yes. But in reality the Church is silly. The whole thing is stupid, and you got a wake-up call from you.
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"You Are Important!" Is The Flatery The Church Uses To Make The Sheep Feel Smug About Themselves
Wednesday, May 31, 2006, at 07:48 AM
Original Author(s): 100% Tithing Free
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Joseph Stalin treated the average Soviet citizen like garbage but the public rail stations in Moscow were like palaces. The subways in Moscow were designed to be a form of control. The people had to depend on the state to go anywhere but the subway stations were palatial works of art. Stalin himself called them the People's Palaces. In truth, the people had no freedom and could only go when or where the state owned subway took them, but the beautiful chandeliars and fresco paintings made them feel like they were part of something special and they indeed were important just to be allowed in such a wonderful space.

The Mormon church plays the same tactic. It tells you that you are one of the few chosen ones. If you are a convert, well, you were one of the few who were smart enough and spiritual enough to get baptised. If you were born in the church, well, you were a choice spirit who was rewarded by being born in the church.

The temple is a private club that just drips of the "Aren't we special!" syndrome. Much like Stalin's palatial public train stations that made the Soviets smile with pride because they knew nobody else in the world had train stations that nice, Mormons sit in the Celesial room under the chandeliers and smuggly thing they are special and chosen.

The truth is, like the Soviets of the past, Mormons are stuck in a system that only takes and gives little back. Oh, there's all sorts of praise for being a good commarad or church member. Lot's of medals of honor but the pay is certainly lousey.

I personaly know members of the church who have no health insurance, but yet they pay 10% tithing and fast offerings. If these people go bankrupt because of medical costs, the church will just yell at them for not having medical insurance. It's the truth. The church takes and gives you nothing back but a chandelier to sit under and a non ending stream of praise telling you, "You are important!"
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Disgusting Mormon "Ring Ceremony"
Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006, at 09:03 AM
Original Author(s): Quimby
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I have a family member who got married in the temple over the weekend. In order to ensure that her single friends, nevermo family, and DH and I (the evil apostates) could taste a morsel of her glorious celestial sealing, she included a pre-reception ring ceremony in her schedule of events.

Before the reception, as I was helping some relatives prepare food, I asked one of the aunts if the couple would be doing something like exchanging vows at the ring ceremony. “No,” she said, “Saying vows is discouraged.”

“Discouraged by who?” I asked.

“The church.”

“Why?”

“Because they are not supposed to seem like they are mimicking a real wedding.”

“But isn’t that what they are doing?”

At this, DH cut in amiably, “I can see why they would do that.”

“So can I,” I said pointedly.

It never really hit me up until that moment how the church was ALL ABOUT CONTROL. The couple had already gotten married in the temple, and done everything they were supposed to do to get there, and now they weren’t allowed to say vows to each other in their own private backyard ceremony? I’m surprised the church even lets them have a ring ceremony at all.

The ceremony itself was one of the most offensive experiences I went through all weekend. It started out nice enough as the mothers got up and briefly expressed love for the couple and gave them some advice. But the main part of the ceremony was this horrible sermon by the bride’s uncle.

The sermon had absolutely nothing to do with the couple before him. It wasn’t even directed at them. Instead, it was directed at all of us who hadn’t been in the temple that morning. He lectured for what seemed like forever on the church’s eternal-families propaganda, asserting that no other church on the planet believed in eternal families, wow isn't the morg special. He said that even if we weren’t members, we should appreciate this wonderful doctrine. He said that those who were not members of the church also had no right to feel anything but happy that the new couple had gone into the mormon temple and thus would be together forever. He insinuated that if we felt any other way, we were terrible, unfeeling people.

After this preaching frenzy, the couple hurriedly put the rings on each other and rushed off to feed each other cake. The whole thing seemed tragic to me. Not only did the church cheat these newlyweds out of a nice customized wedding, but it also kept them from individualizing their own private backyard ring ceremony.

Nothing is ever about the members, is it? It’s always, always about the church and its rules, and its power and its control. Always.
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Top 20 Temple Questions From TBMs
Monday, Jun 26, 2006, at 07:13 AM
Original Author(s): Deconstructor
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Many Mormons - both believers and non-believers - have a hard time understanding the Mormon temple endowment. Here's a list of questions I've compiled. Some are ones I had as a TBM and others come from e-mail I get as well as posts here.

True Believing Mormons wonder...

1. Why are the days of creation different than those recorded in the Book of Moses and Genesis? The third and fourth days are backwards in the endowment ceremony.

2. In the Mormon scripture Book of Moses 3:15-25 it says that God commanded the man (Adam) not to eat from the tree of good and evil. God didn't command the woman, because she had not been created yet. So why is the endowment film different than the Mormon scriptural account?

3. How did Peter, James and John get bodies before they were born? Peter shakes Adam's hand, so we know they weren't spirits. According to Joseph Smith's handshake test for discerning evil spirits from good spirits, Peter should have refused to shake Adam's hand (unless he had been resurrected).

4. Satan wears an apron that he says is a symbol of his power and priesthood. Why then does Adam, Eve and the temple congregation moments later obey Satan when he commands them to put on aprons?

5. How could Jesus be on the right hand of God, in physical form looking like his identical twin, when Jesus had not been born or resurrected yet? Jesus says in the Bible and BoM that he wasn't perfected until AFTER the atonement.

6. So was Lucifer a snake as it says in the scriptures, or a man like it shows in the temple?

7. Lucifer picks the apple off the tree and gives it to Eve. But Lucifer doesn't have a body! What's up with that?

8. Where did Lucifer get his preacher that was preaching to Adam and Eve? Was he for real or just a ghost? If just a ghost, why was he dressed as a protestant minister with the collar for Adam and Eve to see?

9a. The Book of Abraham as well as the modern prophets have taught us that the earth was created around the star Kolob. It orbited God's solar system until AFTER the fall, when it was hurled through space and placed in this solar system. This scriptural doctrine contradicts the endowment, where we see the creation of the moon and it mentions our sun and the other planets too. (See http://www.i4m.com/think/lists/mormon...)

9b. If the Kolob doctrine is true, why is this not included in the endowment, which is supposed to be the "Lord's University"?

9c. Why go through the creation story if it is not true and contradicts Mormon doctrine and the Book of Abraham?

10. If the endowment is actual history, then why was it so radically changed in April 1990? Whole sections were altered and others deleted! If the endowment represented real history, how could it change? Was it not true to the actual events all along? Is the new version "more true to history?" (See: http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temp...)

11. In April 1990 and January 2005 the covenants and penalties of the endowment ceremony also radically changed. Didn't Jesus say in the scriptures that a sign of false churches is that they change his covenants? (See: http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temp... )

12. Where do you find a clear description of these "laws' mentioned in the temple?

1. Law of Obedience
2. Law of Sacrifice
3. Law of Elohim
4. Law of the Lord
5. Law of the Gospel
6. Law of Chastity
7. Law of Consecration

Some of those laws that temple patrons covenant to obey are never mentioned or explained outside the temple. If they are literal laws of God that must be obeyed, why are they not all clearly identified and expounded upon in church discourse?

13. What is the difference between "legally" and "lawfully" as said in the temple endowment covenant?

14. Adam raises his arms in the "true order of prayer", and who answers his prayer? Satan. Does this mean Satan can answer even prayers given in the "true order" ordained by God? What prayer is safe from not being intercepted by Satan? (See: http://helpingmormons.org/compare.htm)

15 Did God really send Peter, James and John down to earth and give Adam and Eve those silly temple clothes to wear? They didn't have a temple, so when did Adam and Eve wear them?

16. How could Peter, James and John be involved in the whole thing when they hadn't been born yet, hadn't been baptized and had not been through the temple? They weren't wearing garments themselves, so how could they be worthy to participate in the endowment events?

17. Temple workers stand is as proxys for Elohim and Jehovah during the ceremony, which makes it very sacred. But since someone also stands in as a literal proxy for Satan, doesn't that make the temple unholy?

18. What is the purpose of learning the "true order of prayer" if it can never be practiced outside of the temple ceremony?

19. Why does God require secret handshakes, names and passwords to pass through the veil and enter his presence? Can't God look into our hearts and know whether or not we are worthy?

20. Why are temple patrons required to make death oaths, when they are expressly forbidden by God in Mormon scripture? (see: http://www.i4m.com/think/temples/temp...)

20. If the endowment is centered on Jesus Christ, why isn't Christ's two top commandments included in the endowment covenants - love God and love your neighbor? Why isn't there mention of Christ's sermon on the mount or other teachings on charity and compassion?

Did anyone else wonder about this stuff before you realized the whole thing was a fraud?
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Does Attending The Temple Make You A Better Person?
Monday, Jul 24, 2006, at 08:22 AM
Original Author(s): Searcher68
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I thought about this question this weekend because of a talk I heard Sunday. The speaker quoted a GA (Faust, I think) who said that one of the reasons “saints” should attend the temple regularly is that temple attendance would make members of the church better people, better neighbors, better friends, better parents, better husbands and wives, and better Christians.

I thought about my experience attending the temple. I tried to be objective, something I couldn’t be when I was an active believer. I asked myself if attending the temple made me a better person and I came to the conclusion that I couldn’t honestly attribute any of my maturity to the temple. I was what I call an anal TBM. I live in the Midwest and attended the Washington, DC temple (a 12 hour drive) then the Chicago temple (a 4-5 hour drive) as often as time and expenses would allow. Then, miracles of miracles, we only had to drive 2 hours to the Louisville, Kentucky temple. There was a time when I loved to attend the temple. This weekend it dawned on my why. Those of you who only drove a block or two to the temple may not understand all these reasons.

First, attending the temple got you away from the pressures of work, home, and church for a few hours. Ironically, it was the church that caused the majority of these pressures. Second, you could sit quietly in the temple and “seek answers for your problems”. Interestingly, I NEVER got one answer to my problems in the temple – not one. No inspiration, no revelation, no voices, nothing. Did that stop me from believing that I would get an answer the next time? Talk about brainwashing. Third, and this one is, perhaps, the most important reason for going to the temple, was going out to dinner afterward with your husband/wife/friends. If you don’t think that it is very important, suggest that you NOT go out to dinner afterwards to you High Priest group and see their response.

Then I thought about what goes on in the temple and realized that there is nothing there calculated to improve people that you can’t find outside the temple. We make promises to consecrate our time and talents to God, rights? Wrong. We consecrate to the Church! How does that make me better? We promise to be faithful to our husband/wife. That concept is taught in so many other places that we don’t have to attend the temple to hear it and make those promises. Perhaps nowhere else do we promise “no evil-speaking of the Lord’s anointed” but that is so self-serving as to be transparent. OK, the one we don’t hear in many other places is the promise of “no loud laughter”. I wonder how many times that one has been violated during a GA’s talk.

The point is, the convents we made sure don’t seen to inspire mature improvement. The only maturity I see is the ability to endure mind-numbing repetition without falling asleep. Of course, many do fall asleep. I wonder how that affects the person for whom they are going though.

Another aspect of the temple is the symbols. We are promised that if we “give prayerful consideration to the things we see and hear”, their meaning will be revealed to us. Did any of you ever get such a revelation? I didn’t. In all my years of faithful attendance, I got zero revelations on the meaning of the temple symbols. I prayed for an understanding. I believed that the Lord would give me the promised understanding. Nothing – ever. I remember looking down the line as we gave the first or second tokens hoping that seeing all those arms and hands in those positions, I would see something that would make sense. Nothing – ever. Of course, there were times that a member of the temple presidency would answer questions in the celestial room and I learned some of the symbols that way. But those things were not by revelation and they certainly did not help make me a better person. For example, the idea that the cap is tied to those 3 loops on the robe represents revelation to our minds from the Godhead. We learn that in Sunday School (not about the temple clothing but about revelation) so what value is that sort of thing. It just seemed like silliness.

I ran all these thoughts by a TBM friend and she said that it wasn’t the tokens or words but the feelings in the temple that made her a better person. I said that I used to have those feelings sometimes but I also had those same feelings listing to Beethoven or Bach, looking a beautiful painting, walking in the woods, or looking at a sunset. She agreed. I asked, “Then why build these multimillion-dollar edifices just to get that kind of feeling when you can get it in so many other places?” She didn’t have an answer.

My conclusion is that good people are still good after attending the temple and bitchy people are still bitchy. I don’t see that temple attendance does anything to make people “better”. It’s just one more way that the church keeps the people under its control. It is an effective way to give them a break from the pressures of church assignments yet not let them off the leash. What a brilliant plan.
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Doctrinal Question: Did You Marry Your Spouse And The Mormon Church In Your Sealing?
Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006, at 08:21 AM
Original Author(s): Swedeboy
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Doctrinal Question: Did you marry your spouse and the Mormon church in your sealing?

The following is the sealing ceremony wording for those who can’t remember or who have never attended the temple:

Officiator: Will the Witnesses please take their seats at the head of the altar.

Witnesses: Take their seats as requested.

Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] will you please take your places and kneel opposite each other at the altar.

Marriage Couple: Kneels opposites each other as requested.

Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] please join hands in the Patriarchal Grip or Sure Sign of the Nail.

Marriage Couple: Joins hands in the "Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail." This token is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. No clothing should interfere with the contact of the forefinger upon the wrist.

Officiator: Brother ______, do you take Sister ______ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Groom: Yes.

Officiator: Sister ______ [acting as proxy for ______, who is dead,] do you take brother ______ by the right hand and give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband, for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Bride: Yes.

Officiator: By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob [if living, he adds: and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth] that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.

As I have reviewed this “ceremony” I continue to try to understand just exactly what it was that we were doing there. I do acknowledge that the spouse is mentioned, but it would seem that our promises extended beyond our spouse to the Mormon church as well “will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant” Is the sealing ceremony nothing more than an extension or cap stone to the endowment ceremony whereby we promised to give all to the church including our very lives. Does this also apply through the sealing that our marriage and spouse could be offered up as well? In short, did we marry the Mormon church?

I would argue, that yes, we did indeed marry Joseph’s cult along with our spouse, however I would like your thoughts and ideas on this issue.
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Handshakes, Caps, And A Superhero Apron Cape
Wednesday, Aug 2, 2006, at 09:35 AM
Original Author(s): Swedeboy
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Handshakes, Hats, and a Superhero Apron Cape.

Today I decided to clean out my closet. It has been a while since I did this, and my closet in particular was screaming for attention. As I removed my sweaters, shirts, shorts and a sundry of other apparel, I came across my black temple clothing bag. “Let’s have some fun with this,” I said to myself.

I called my ten-year-old son, as well as my seven, six and four-year-old daughters into the living room, “Come in here kids, I have something to show you!” I then proceeded to don my cap, robe, apron and sash all the while explaining to the kids that Mom and I dressed like this during our visits to the temple. My son began to laugh, exclaiming, “I am so glad we are out of the church and I won’t have to wear those stupid clothes!” I laughed and then my seven-year-old daughter said, “Dad, you look like a cooker man!” By now, we were all laughing and having a great time.

They were all fascinated with the slippers for some reason, and wanted to take turns wearing them around the house. My four year old took the apron and wore it in a Superman fashion while whisking too and fro throughout the house. My seven year old took the robe and wrapped herself in it while exclaiming, “Look Dad, I’m a mummy!” My son took a shine to the cap and asked if he could keep it and wear it around the neighborhood.

I then told them about some of the handshakes and things that we did while there. My seven-year-old daughter looked at me with a “you have got to be kidding me” expression, and my son just laughed. I then told them that at one time I looked forward to taking them to the temple, as I believed it was a special place, but now we know it’s a lie and made up by Joseph Smith. “It’s all a pile of crap!” exclaimed my ten-year-old son.

Part of me still had some reservations about doing this due to Morg programming. Nevertheless, I wanted my children to see the utter silliness of the whole dress up thing. My seven year old caught on how stupid it was ever to think that some handshakes would be necessary to get back to God. A sweet seven-year-old mind, uncluttered by the baggage of Mormonism could see right through the completely stupid mess, but I at one time could not.

I have to go now; Apron Girl and Cap Man are here to take me away to spirit prison.

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Why Is Ditching Temple Covenants Based On Fraud And Not Binding In The First Place So Hard To Do?
Thursday, Aug 3, 2006, at 08:25 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Did you really believe that you were going to be held to some temple covenant and your life would be taken in some gruesome manner (pre-1990)?

I know that people take these things seriously, they place a lot of importance making a covenant with God, but... isn't it just pretend, figurative, play acting anyhow?

Mormons asked me how I could disappoint God and destroy my life by breaking my temple covenants. Easy. I said. They are not binding. Joseph Smith Jr lied about his claims and the temple rituals he set up are just silly, outrageous, goofy male Free Masonry adopted to his own idea of his religion.

And that goes for the regulation, official temple skivvies.

I asked a TBM recently if they would follow the prophet and obey if they were told to leave their apostate relatives, not have contact, kill them, or shun them.

Would they follow the prophet? The answer was: no, not if was unreasonable.

Ah ha...the key is whether it is "unreasonable." I found a chink in the armor.

Well then, what about those undies they are afraid to take off? Is it reasonable to have a fear of taking them off or not wearing them to bed, etc?

So, the question becomes: is it reasonable to believe the temple covenants and rituals, handshakes, new names, are important to your life?

Is it reasonable to demand by covenant to give everything to the building up of the kingdom?

Is it reasonable to demand by covenant to pay tithing?

Is it reasonable to demand by covenant to: "avoid all light laughter, evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, taking the Lord's name in vain and every other impure practice"???

Is it reasonable to live the Word of Wisdom, when it it is full of inaccurate goofy health ideas for humans and animals, and has never ever been lived as written by the members?

Is it reasonable to not talk about what goes on in the temple? Why does sacred mean secret? Is that reasonable?

Is it reasonable to dress up in a goofy outfit, green apron, and (in the past) give total strangers access to our body under a sheet for "blessings"?

Is it reasonable to believe the BOM is inspired by God through Joseph Smith Jr.?

Is it reasonable to recognize the imaginary authority of th church leaders: prophets, bishops, presidents, elders, etc.?

I could go on and on. The more I think about Mormonism, the more I see that it is unreasonable on all levels. But, that seems to be the beauty of it. Faith does not work well with reason! Looks like one can cancel out the other one!

I asked myself why I went along with this, knowing deep down that it was unreasonable, didn't make sense, but.... relied on faith and trusted people I thought would tell me the truth. I could not imagine that a huge church of millions of people would be that hoodwinked. But they are!

Probably one of the most difficult things to handle is knowing we placed our trust in an organization that was lying by omission and sanitizing it's history. The betrayal, is probably the hardest thing for humans to handle.
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Why Temple Insanity Will Continue With Mormonism For The Duration Of Its Existence
Friday, Aug 11, 2006, at 07:29 AM
Original Author(s): Cats
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I've spent a lot of time pondering the inane and stupid that is the LDS temple worship, if that is what it is - worship. Just this moment it dawned on me why "temple work" is so important to LDS leaders starting with Joseph Smith. The reason for its design and the clue to its demise lies in Mormon history.

Forget that Mormonism started as a pentacostal folklore movement of a primitivistical form of Antebellum American mystical Christian zeal.

Realize that in Joseph Smith's boasting at his cohesive powers, he took all of his happiness. Mormonism today reflects that same 19th century zeal for being a "united people" that is beset by a flurry of differences of opinion and worship.

What does the LDS temple represent? It is the predominant symbol of religious unity in America - the land of religious liberality.

The "prophet" nor his councils care if you or anyone leave his church. Like Smith, he will always have a coterie of people bound to him more than their blood would ever bind them to others.

The "temple" is the way. It is the path to salvation in the Mormon prophet's terms. It proves not only loyalty, but a resolve in people to follow him.

Without the temple, Mormonism is just another denomination. With it, no matter how it dwindles, it is a force for proving people's resolve to follow one man and his many councils in what he and they determine the best for you.

Can any other religion lay claims to such a resolve in the people that profess its virtue?

Only a cult.

Mormonism is one its way to being a worldwide accepted, esteemed, and praised cult and the temple leads the way.

Get rid of the temple and you don't have Mormonism anymore. You just have another religious system of belief that holds both the ridiculousness and the righteousness of its adherents higher than the ridiculousness and the established cohesive power of its prophet's will.

Take the temple away from Mormonism and you might as well take the prophet with it.
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Inside Of Each Mormon Is An Ex-Mormon Fighting To Get Out
Friday, Nov 10, 2006, at 07:24 AM
Original Author(s): Rubicon
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I had a nice visit with a TBM Mormon friend of mine. Him and his wife were invited to the Idaho Falls temple for what they thought was going to be a special endownment session for church leaders and their spouses. What it turned out to be was a chapel meeting with the temple president and it was all about guilt tripping the priesthood leadership and relief society leadership into making sure more church members go to the temple.

Apparently there is a major push in the Idaho Falls temple district to do this because of fear the Rexburg Temple is going to steal a lot of temple goers and workers.

My friend was discusted. He was saying they want us to put spirituality into quantifiable goals like we are selling cars or insurance of something. He says the best I can do to make sure people go to the temple in my quorum is to have good teachers teach the lessons so we have a spiritual priesthood meeting on Sunday and that we get as much home teaching done as possible.

As we talked more my friend just sighed and said, it's never enough. I've done everything the stake president and bishop have asked me to do. PPI's, increased the hometeaching percentage, have better lessons in priesthood. Now theres a huge push to be missionaries and live in the temple.

All I could say is it wasn't the old church we grew up in. He agreed. Since this guy is still a major TBM and his wife is too, he would be offended at my view of what's going on. What's encouraging is the church is becoming more and more burdonsome to these people.

The way I view the situation, is the temple is the main tool the top church leadership uses to rope in it's members. If they can keep you going to the temple they got you hook line and sinker. It doesn't matter if you lie in the interviews. Probably a good percentage do. It's that they still get some of your money and free labor and if you are a parent, they get your kids too so they can brainwash them into little Morgbots.

This is why the temple cerimony has been streamlined and the garmets changed over the years. If the members had to wear the one piece, trapdoor garmets, they would bolt from the church. Hinckley understands this and when the women don't like being subjected to their husbands, change that too.

What they want is to use the temple as a tool to get your assets, time, talents, and family. Being banned from family weddings and being treated like a second class citizen is the punishment for not having a temple reccommend. This is why the temple is pushed.

Step one is to get you going to church. Step two is to use social and family pressure to get you in the temple. The more the church herd into the temple the more money and power over the membership the church has.

It doesn't matter if garmets get shorter or if they streamline the temple cerimony more. That's filler for the most part. It's the temple reccommend proccess that locks your in.
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The Money-Generating Ability Of Those "Appointment Only" Temples
Tuesday, Jan 2, 2007, at 06:16 AM
Original Author(s): Board Oldie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I've posted this information before but it's been a few years. With all the threads lately about the McTemples that sit empty most of the time and speculation about whether TSCC is losing money on them, I thought I'd post it again.

A number of years ago, I worked with a guy who was a CPA and had worked for the finance dept. at COB. He'd been there a long time but finally had to force himself to leave in order to "preserve his testimony" because the everyday workings of church finance were taking its toll on it.

In particular, it was when they started building the mini temples and how it had nothing to do with inspiration, amount of temple work that could be done in that area, or anything other than how much money it would bring in that was the determining factor of where they built temples.

I was still in the church at the time, but very disillusioned and I think he felt safe confiding in me. But some of the things he told me really made sense. For instance:

It takes at the most, 9 months for a mini temple to pay for itself. You KNOW the one thing the Morg is good at, it's making money. Gordy Geezer can talk through his old saggy butt all day about what a "blessing" a temple in your area is, he knows darn well, the blessing is to the corporation.

They do extensive statistical research to figure out how much of a surge in tithing they will have when they first build the temple. This is usually enough to finance the whole thing. If you've been slacking on the tithing thinking it's too much trouble to drive 4 hours to the temple anyway and you'll start paying 100% again the next time you have to go to a wedding, you'll think twice when you see the temple every Sunday because it's right next to the chapel. There will be a big push on people to prepare themselves and sacrifice for "their" temple.

Once the temple is paid for, it costs very little in upkeep. There are no property taxes. Not only do they not have to pay for grounds upkeep, janitorial workers, temple workers, etc. because they "call" people to these enviable positions so they can work for free, but it also keeps lower-income people paying because there is a push to call people as temple workers who might have had trouble keeping up on their tithing before. No one is going to let their tithing lapse and has to go in and tell the bishop they can't do their temple job anymore because they can't get a recommend.

Even if your ward only has an assigned temple night one night a month or once a quarter, people still have to keep their recommends current (hence keep tithing current) so they aren't embarrassed and have to make excuses for why they can't go to ward temple night. In short, just that empty building sitting there is generating a lot of money just by virtue of its guilt-producing presence.

It can sit empty most of the time, all TSCC has to pay is a little overhead/upkeep and the utilities. In the meantime, the land is not only appreciating, but it is a valuable asset on the books. Where does the financing for malls come from? They can technically say they don't use "tithing money" for the malls, but they can use their great assets (such as monetary value of temples) to finance other projects that DO bring in a lot of money.

In short (or long) the temples are the Mormon Money Machines. And the best part is that the sheep easily fall for it and get all awe-struck when they get their own temples and as predicted, open their wallets. It will be a long, long, time before you start seeing any of these money machines shut down. We'll continue to see them built, maybe not on such a grand scale, because when this scheme was first figured out, they needed to populate the main money-generating areas of the church with them, but they'll figure out where there are enough members in other parts of the world to generate enough money and have a valuable money-producing asset.
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New Changes To An Altready Aspiritual Cold Temple Ceremony
Friday, Jan 26, 2007, at 07:47 AM
Original Author(s): Active Apostate
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
During the past month I went to a marriage and sealing ceremony in the Las Vegas Temple for the marriage of a brother in law. My wife (active, but a dwindling testimony) and her many active sisters asked for tissues as soon as they got into the room expecting a good cry for their little brother and his new wife. It did not happen.

The sealer, sat in the chair the entire time, with the exception of the moment he gave the sealing prayer. For about 5 minutes (no kidding), he spoke about how sealers had just been instructed not to give "advice" to newly married couples as a part of the sealing ceremony, and that he would not give advice. He said they had been instructed only to speak about the importance of the ordinance, and to focus on the ordinance and the priesthood. He went on and on about how these were new restrictions, and that he felt the changes were good because the church is focussing on the most important thing, the ordinance. During this entire speech, he remained seated. In a big room, it was very awkward.

It was the only ceremony I have been to where the sealer did not do the whole look into the mirror, and see eternity thing. He didn't do it.

At one point, while talking about the new changes, he said "I know it seems like I am doing too much talking about myself and the new restrictions" but it is important.

He then began to quiz, no kidding, the new bride, fresh through the temple about the different promises she made during the endowment. It was terrible because she was lost. Finally, my brother in law started answering for her. Very awkward.

Then he just got up, said the prayer, and waa-law, they were sealed. He then had everyone march past them to congratulate them, and when 1/2 of the poeple had already exited the room, the sealer remembered that they could exchange rings. The other temple workers called everyone back, even more akward, and they exchanged rings in a rushed moment. He was sure to remind everyone that the exchange of rings was not a part of the sealing ceremony and had no eternal significance. That is all he said. No comment on how nice the rings were, that the circle represented eternity, or anything kind.

I felt like telling him that he was a dumb-ass and had ruined the whole thing anyway. The whole ceremony became focussed on the rules rather than the love. It was cold.

I thought my view might have just been my personal bias agains the church (looking for flaws etc), but my observations were confirmed by everyone else after the ceremony. I have never heard so much "murmurring." My wife and her sisters were all complaining after it was over about the sealer, how he sat the whole time. How focussed on himself he was. My wife commented that he was so dry and impersonal that there was no place for her to even cry. They were upset.

A week later I was speaking to my brother in law, who is an active TBM, who was involved in another sealing a few days later in Utah. He was also present for the sealing in Las Vegas. Despite his utter TBM status, he complained that the Utah sealer did the same thing as the one in Vegas. The Utah sealer did not stand at all until the actual sealing prayer (this may be a cooincidence). Made the same comments about the new changes and the restriction on giving advice, and that he was instructed just to do the ordinance. My brother in law felt the new ceremony was cold.

The church is ever increasingly more corporate, and obsessed with rules. Rules for everything. The church is becoming so sterile. Even for active members. Of course its all a sham, so it shouldn't surprise me. But it is getting difficult for even believing members to endure.
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General Authorties Are Completely Out Of Touch With Popular Culture And Weddings
Monday, Jan 29, 2007, at 08:49 AM
Original Author(s): Ava
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Some of you might be wondering why I even care what the mormon church does or says about anything. And you would probably be right since I haven't considered myself mormon for 15 years.

I was thinking the other day about how pervasive American mass media is about weddings. There are magazines devoted to weddings and receptions. There are conventions with wedding planners, hair stylists, florists, pastry chefs, photographers, etc. It is an enormous, billion dollar industry.

Whether or not it's empowering for women - the vast majority of little girls will be sucked into this culture. Bridal gowns are costumes for halloween. Music videos are filled with weddings and wedding imagery (Think a simple kind of life with Gwen Stefani). Many successful movies (Father of the Bride, both versions) are based around this pie in the sky wedding fantasy that many women have. In an episode of the sitcom Friends a few years ago, one of the characters brings out a binder filled with clips and cutouts for her wedding she had come up with at the age of 10. I saw a children's cartoon (Little Bear) with a fake wedding with an aisle the other day. These fantasies all have aisles and brides in gowns and veils. It's literally everywhere.

So - with this tremendous pressure on mormon women to marry and to marry a mormon, what kind of planning does a mormon woman get to do for her actual wedding ceremony? Nothing. She actually has no idea what the ceremony will be like. No one, not her mother, teachers or friends are allowed to talk about what happens. There is no beautiful strapless white gown in her future as she walks down the aisle.

There is no aisle.

In popular culture - people can choose to do lots of things. They can exchange vows in front of immediate family or just a justice of the peace. Getting married outdoors, on a beach, on a baseball diamond is trendy. She can wear pants. While a gay couple can't get married legally, there are plenty of gay weddings. In the end, who cares what a couple decides to do? It's what the couple wants. A mormon woman has no idea what she is in for.

As an adult, I've read more about the mormon ceremony - it's published lots of places on the net and in books. Of course it's seen as horribly offensive to active mormons - who feel the ceremony is sacred and should never be shown to outsiders. (Never mind the fact that it is directly lifted from the Masonic rituals). Many might argue that I should respect others' beliefs - yet this is one part that I find hard to respect. The sacred part of the ceremony should not be the knowledge of the ceremony itself - but the spiritual reaction. AND at this point - when anyone who looked could easily find what happens - why does the secrecy matter? What purpose does it serve?

I agree that some of the wedding culture (like prom culture) is just plain sexist and bullshit. Some women spend so much time planning for their weddings that actually being married seems like an afterthought. Others become depressed after the wedding is over in a "what now" type funk. And yes, at one point the wedding and dowry were an exchange of property (women) from their fathers to their husbands. Weddings and marriage have not always had a glorious tolerant history.

Yet Utah LDS/mormon leadership is (as usual) completely out of touch with popular culture. This isn't surprising since most of them are over 90, white, male and rarely leave Utah.

There is no cultural comparison for a mormon woman to look forward to her wedding ceremony.

I'm not suggesting that I would have stayed mormon if I had actually been able to look forward to my wedding. There are so many reasons why I left - this wasn't even a blip on my radar.

All I'm suggesting is - how can a wedding or marriage be an ideal for a young woman if she doesn't even know what she's in for? It's not an attractive prospect. It's terrifying. Not only does she not know what she's in for, she has to remain pure and chaste in order to get to that pinnacle. Again - she has to sacrifice, possibly lie to herself and others about something in which she is completely in the dark about what happens there.

I cannot imagine how I would have reacted at my wedding in the temple when I saw the men putting on green aprons and chef hats. Then - I would put on a veil - covering my face! Because there is a definite separation there of what the men do and what the women do.

Sure, the leadership does a phenomenal job of indoctrinating children into going to the temple. "I love to see the temple" is a common primary (young children) song - or "My body is a temple". Songs like this are sung by little mormons (as young as three) all the time. They never sing about how going to the temple requires 10% of your income to the mormon church. I guess that's not as important.

It's simply not fair to keep women (and men) out of the process. I'm sure by keeping everything secret that people don't think about how wacky everything really is. It's a method of control and manipulation. There's no question the mormon/LDS church is moving towards a more non-discript, not as separate religious order. If so, this ceremony will have to go - or at least, the secrecy will have to go.
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My Last Temple Experience
Friday, Feb 9, 2007, at 08:42 AM
Original Author(s): Sister Mary Lisa
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
It was time to go...the youth temple night for baptisms for the dead was that night, and since I was a counselor in the Young Women presidency, I needed to be there on time in order to help out.

I had recently received my "Limited Use" recommend for adults who were able/worthy to do baptisms for the dead, but were unable to have a full-use recommend to do adult things in the temple like take out the endowment or other things. My bishop had a little group of women in the ward who had not taken out their endowment like I hadn't, and he pushed us to go to the temple to at least do baptisms for the dead.

I arrived, and since we were unsure how many kids were actually going to show up, I checked out a white jumpsuit to wear just in case I was also needed to perform baptisms. I changed in the girls' dressing room, and the Young Women president and I helped the girls in there until we went out and sat on the benches overlooking the font where the kids waited to begin doing baptisms.

It looked like enough kids showed up, so soon I was in the dressing room helping the girls with getting ready (and helping them stay quiet and reverent) after they came out of the water. The YW president was in the little hallway that led from the font to the dressing room, and she was handing out towels to them as they came up out of the water. She went to get more towels, so I helped her by taking over handing out towels as the girls got done. I sat on a little stool holding dry towels next to the guy who was reading the names to the baptism performer, and across from me sat my bishop (and friend) and one of the Young Men presidency members. I'd hand a towel to those leaving the water as they got to the top of the steps, and then I'd get another towel and wait for the next kid to come out of the water.

Fast forward to the next Sunday. The Young Women president, a very sweet woman who also happened to be the stake president's wife, stopped me in the parking lot at church and said she needed to talk to me.

"Um, Lisa, I hope you're not offended by this, but I was asked to talk to you about helping out in the temple. Um....you can't help with the baptisms like that anymore...can't hand out towels. What you can do is stay in the girls' dressing room to help out, or sit in the chapel and help anyone who needs you, but you aren't able to go into the font area anymore. I hope this doesn't upset you....." I could tell she felt really uncomfortable doing this. I wondered who had put her up to it. Probably my bishop, who was there that night. She is a very sweet, very calm and unassuming woman, and we were both highly uncomfortable. I guess it's also possible she talked to her husband about it if SHE was the one who didn't like it, and he told her to talk to me. I don't know.

I stood there feeling pretty stupid. I had no idea that I was unworthy to HAND OUT TOWELS. Especially if I was worthy to actually step into the font and perform baptisms. I didn't quite know what to say.

I answered her, "No, that's fine, no problem. OK. I'll remember. I won't do that again, now that I know it's forbidden."

She said she was sorry again, and she hoped I wasn't offended, and I assured her I wasn't offended, and I said something to make her feel better, and we said goodbye.

I wish that wasn't my last temple experience to remember. Before that it had always been a very special place to me, a place where I felt a lot closer to God. Not so much anymore.
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Here's The Effect A Small Local Temple Had On Me
Monday, Mar 26, 2007, at 06:07 AM
Original Author(s): Uncle Mo
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
The closest temple when I was young was 1200 miles away. Then it went to 450 miles and now it's 15 miles.

The farther away it was the more "special" it was. You had to make a bigger sacrifice to get there. Also you didn't know the people in the temple so it was easier to mythologize the experience (familiarity can certainly breed contempt). It also made me think more about my own worthiness.

So in the local temple it's all with the local joes you see every week at Church. If the guy officiating at the endowment session is that bozo who makes the stupidest comments in EQ and hardly ever does his HTing, that makes the experience, well, less "speshul".

I think Gordo's "inspiration" was that it would be a unifying and strengthening factor, but I think it's had an opposite effect and makes it harder for the morg to perpetuate its myths.

Related to this I can remember my disappointment when Gordo explained his "inspiration" for the small temple initiative. He was being chauffeured around in a limo when the thought popped into his head. At that moment another issue went up on my shelf that later came tumbling down.
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The Depth Of The Temple Endowment
Friday, Apr 20, 2007, at 09:22 AM
Original Author(s): Skeptical
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Shortly after the Oklahoma City, Oklahoma temple was dedicated, I was asked to be an ordinance worker. It was an honor for me. I was in my mid thirties and looked forward to learning more about the temple. I had gotten to know the newly called temple president, Jerrell Chesney, during my service as a member of the Open House Committee which he chaired.

I ordered my white suit and shoes and showed up for work. I met a lot of really nice people in the temple. Almost all of them were great people.

That first week was hectic. The organization was still lacking and Pres. Chesney was busy trying to fit all the pieces together. I remember one humorous incident when Chesney walked up to me and asked if I had ever officiated a session before. I told him that not only had I not officiated a session, I hadn’t even been a follower yet. He put his hand on my back and in his deep Oklahoma twang, while pushing me into an ordinance room full of people, told me to push the green button on the alter. That was my first session. After a week or so, things calmed down considerably and we began having normal training and assignments.

During the prayer meetings prior to each shift we watched a training video, learned the new names (male and female) and then asked questions. There isn’t a lot of training about meaning, just procedure. In fact, we were told not to share our own personal opinions about temple significance with others. Each was to learn from the Spirit, we were continually instructed.

But most of the temple workers were aged and had worked in other temples for may years. They were bored stiff. They taught me a lot about the temple ceremony. I would spend hours looking at the film looking for jet contrails, telephone poles and other evidences of non-Adamic technology. They taught me about staying alert by playing these little games.

Apparently these good men and women, who had spent enough time in the Lord’s University to have earned several doctorates, could find nothing more instructive than looking for bloopers.
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My Experience Of Attending The Temple For The First Time
Monday, Apr 30, 2007, at 07:46 AM
Original Author(s): Skeptical
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I was a nineteen year old boy about to enter the MTC. My twin brother and I were to enter the MTC about two weeks apart, but we went to the temple the day before I reported to the MTC. My parents were very excited about us going to the temple. For my mother, it was, I believe, a way for her to see herself as a successful mother.

We left our home and traveled to Utah. We stayed with my uncle at his home in Orem. The night before I remember going to sleep knowing that in the morning life would be different. I wasn’t sure how it would be, but I knew that I would have to wear garments. I had felt a little ripped off when I went to buy them. I had worked hard to save money for my mission and part of it was used to purchase holy clothing. I honestly thought that they were pricey and that the Church should sell them at cost.

The night before I rested in my bed wondering what life would be like. The big moment was going to happen. I was to learn the great secrets of the temple. I had always been taught that the temple was the holiest place on earth, that Jesus walked its halls, that angels frequently appeared there. I had an uncle who swears that his deceased brother appeared to him in the temple and had a conversation with him regarding why he died and what he was doing in the Spirit World. All these things raced through my head. I felt in awe about entering a place where heaven and earth literally co-existed.

Eventually I fell asleep. I was awoken early by my parents. I showered and ate breakfast. I dressed in my suit and we drove north to the Salt Lake Temple. As we approached the entrance, I felt somewhat apprehensive. The man at the booth examined our recommends and an eager guide was there to show us where to go. I believed that those men at the desk had supernatural power to discern every bad and evil thought I ever had. Would they let me in? Mercy was shown and we were permitted entrance.

My twin and I were given lockers next to each other. There we met our “triplet.” Coincidently, a third young man was there to receive his temple endowments the same day prior to his mission. He had the same last name and the temple workers had assumed that we were triplets.

We made our way to the washing and anointing area wearing only a shield, which exposed much of my body. I held my garments in my hand as I followed our guide. I felt weird being so exposed. As I entered the booth, I remember that a lot of my body parts were blessed. It seemed pretty strange to me – unlike my previous experience in Mormonism. Lastly, a man dressed me in my garments then told me my new name, “Jonah.” I had never cared for that Old Testament prophet. I was a little disappointed by the name and thought that perhaps God was trying to humble me- but for eternity? I didn’t want to be a Jonah.

As we headed back to the lockers, a temple worker ran up to us and warned us not to discuss our new names with anyone – not even with each other. I thought that was a little strange as I had already been told that I could never reveal the new name by the temple worker in the booth and my mother had told us many times that we would receive a new name that had to be kept secret.

We dressed in our white clothes and sorted through our temple robes and aprons making sure that we had everything. Once our guide made sure we hadn’t left anything we followed him to the front row of the chapel area. We sat down with our dad, next to the other new missionary who was sitting next to his dad. I was very surprised that all the men had to sit on one side and all the women on the other. I didn’t quite understand this separation.

My mother beamed with pride. I saw her smiling over at me. I saw uncles and aunts whom I had seen in years wearing white clothing. My sister and her husband were present. Then the endowment presentation began.

At first it was just plain boring. The presentation of the creation was disappointing. This was the endowment? Then we started receiving handshakes, making signs and learning penalties. I was blown away. This seemed like a secret combination to me. I had a sick feeling in my stomach. It seemed that the Book of Mormon had warned against such secret combinations which used handshakes. I was a bit confused. I looked over at my mom and she had a nervous apprehensive look on her face. I understood why. I knew that at the end of the session I would be expect to repeat information. I focused myself on remembering all that I could.

Slowly, the presentation dragged on. The elderly temple workers performed their roles almost robotically. I thought it was strange that an actor played the part of the devil, who seemed to have a significant role in the presentation. I was somewhat fascinated by his apron and the symbols on it. I wondered what they represented.

We moved from room to room. By the time the presentation was nearly complete I was frightened that I hadn’t really understood my religion sufficiently. What had I missed that had failed to prepare me for the sacredness which I was not seeing? The temple didn’t feel sacred.

During that morning, I had wondered how many in the session were deceased people. I really did believe that there was no separation of living and dead in the temple. I had assumed that angels were there too. At the end of the session, we were told that we would be presented to the Lord at the veil. I had missed the explanation that a temple worker would be performing this part. My name was called and I was escorted up some steps to the veil. I looked for Jesus’ hand to reach through the curtain. My heart was beating quickly. Out came the hand of an old man. Within moments I understood that Jesus really wasn’t there. I repeated all the information back, making the tokens with the help of a temple worker. I passed through the veil into the beautiful celestial room of the Salt Lake City temple. It was full of people dressed as unusual as I was. My parents were already there. My mom was shining as her two sons came to her. My dad didn’t respond much but seemed to want to talk about the room, not my experience.

Everyone was happy. But I was confused. The experience was different than what I had anticipated. My mother explained that I needed to go often to understand it better. After a few minutes, we left and returned to the locker room where I shed my robes for my suit, attired now in my garments.

When we left, I was afraid.

Eventually, the strangeness of the temple wore off. Repeated visits makes it all seem normal. But one thing never changes, the look of people’s faces in the session company. As an officiator later in my life, I would often look at the faces of those attending. Nearly all of them had an empty look. No smiles, no interest, no nothing. We all just sat there enduring to the end. I also saw the nervous looks of mothers whose sons attended for the first time. It always reminded me of that day in 1985.
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Did You Have To Strip Naked In Front Of The Dead-Dunk Matron In The Salt Lake City Temple?
Tuesday, Jul 17, 2007, at 12:50 PM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Seems like that's where I was when this happened at age twelve. After the dunkings, each girl had to go into a tiled cubicle with an old lady. We were expected to strip off our wet white jumpsuit and drop in into a a bucket while she eyed us up and down, then, gave out a small handtowel to wear walking down the hall to the room with the clothing lockers.

This whole episode was very embarrassing for someone in the earliest stages of developing breasts and pubic hair. It was also embarrassing how the woman made such a big deal about "that time of the month" before she would hand out the suits before we dressed and were dunked. I felt humiliated for a girl who had to sit in her street clothes and watch the whole event. The boys were snickering and pointing at her and leering at the rest of us before, during, and after their dunks.

Plus, the suits we wore turned flimy and transluscent when they were wet, and the legs were so wide we were all in danger of having them flap open and show everything as we went underwater and were being jerked upright again.

The whole thing was one of the most stressful and embarassing events of my youth. I'll never forget it. I could tell from the red faces and lowered eyes that other girls felt the same way, but we were all too cowed to ever say a word about it. Looking back, it was abusive and totally uncalled for.

I don't remember this in the Logan temple perhaps because I was older when I went there or because they had a better system with better dunking suits. Or maybe the boys went first at that site.
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What Were Your First Thoughts Your First Time In The Temple?
Wednesday, Jul 25, 2007, at 06:57 AM
Original Author(s): Pokatator
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
My "Last Straw" was when I came to the conclusion that the man behind the curtain was not God.

It was when I was standing inline at veil in the temple going through the first time. I began to think about what I had done to get there. I had be worthy; meaning an active attender of church, a full thither, no tobacco, no alcohol, and pass the Bishop's test for recommendation, sustain the prophet, and on and on. Plus now at the temple I had to be washed and anointed, given a new name (Mosiah), new clothes and underwear, go through all these rituals of receiving the different priesthoods, the oaths, the tokens, the names, the swearing to keep secrets, the promise to commit suicide by shedding my own blood 3 different ways (1988) if I reveal the secrets. I also have to recite the other covenants like the Law of Consecration that pledges my body, my will, my life, my wealth, my everything to the church. I have to do all these things and several others that I have forgotten just to stand in line to meet the Mormon god. When I meet him I have to introduce myself to him and repeat the handshakes, the oaths, thetokens, the new names, and I have do it whispering in his ear with an embrace to keep it secret. I have to do all this or this god doesn't know me.

The thought came to me, if it was really God behind that curtain, he would know his child, his creation without a recommend, without being washed and anointed, without a new name, without new clothes and underwear, without making 3 blood oaths, without all the other hoops that you have to jump through. I wouldn't have to introduce myself to God! If he was really God, he would even know who I am no matter what kind of sinner I am, even if I had the smell of tobacco or drink on my breath, even if I was a thief or a lair, he would know me no matter who or what I am or what station or condition in life I am.

A chill ran over me as I realized that all I just did in the temple was in the name of the Son of God, and in this religion there are two Sons of God. Jesus and Satan, .......brothers. The question became who is behind the curtain, Jesus or Satan? Would Jesus whisper secrets, want me to make blood oaths, not know me, etc. and etc.?

The thoughts of how weird and bizarre this whole ritual was began to pour into my mind. It came to me that the Mormon god is not a powerful god at all or even a god at all. It is amazing to me just how weak and powerless the Mormon God is. He can't even keep track of his own creation he has to have the creation itself keep track for him and the created has the responsibility to save his own creation for him. You have to save your self, you have to save your dead (God can't do it?), the Mormon god is impotent. The Mormon god is not the Christian God that teaches differently, that he saves you, not by works, not by the temple, not by tithing, not by living the WofW, etc. etc., but by grace, a free unearned gift. The Christian God is a God that knows what and who he created and has a means for saving his own creation, he doesn't put that requirement on the backs of the mortals he created.

The Mormon god is omni-impotent!!!

The New Testament reads: Mat 8:22 "But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." The Mormons are dead (just like Jesus was saying about the Jews of that day), so let the dead bury and baptize and endow the dead.

That was the beginning of the last straw, I began to ask questions, read and research and it took a while but I educated my way out. It cost me a wife and 3 kids, but I gained freedom and salvation.
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A Little "Oath" Reading - Brooklyn Daily Eagle, Dec 1, 1889 - Mormon Temple Oaths Are Treasonous
Saturday, Oct 6, 2007, at 07:39 AM
Original Author(s): Jw The Inquizzinator
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.or...

See page 2, right hand column.

"Judge Anderson Decides Against the Mormons"

"Aliens Who Are Members of That Church Are Not Trained to be Good Citizens, Because Its Teachings Are Treasonable."

"Salt Lake City, Utah, November 30. Judge Anderson to-day, in an eloborate and carefully prepared opinion, denied the applications for citizenship made by Mormons who had taken the Endowment house oath in the Mormon church. The application has created widespread attention, and for the past two weeks Judge Anderson has been taking testimony.

In his decision to-day he states the ground of opoosiiton to the admission of such applicants to be that the Mormon church is, and always has been, a treasonable organization in its teachings and in its practices hostile to the Governemnt of the United STates, disobedient to its laws and seeking its overthrow, and that the oath administered to its members in the Endowment house binds them under penalty of death to implicit obedience in all things temporal as well as spiritual to the priesthood, and to avenge the death of the prophets, Joseph and Hyram Smith, upon the Government, and people of the United States...."
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Fanny Stenhouse's 1875 Description Of Endowment Oaths And Practices
Saturday, Oct 13, 2007, at 07:46 AM
Original Author(s): Sl Cabbie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Mormons leaving the church seeking to find common ground with early disaffected Mormons are likely to make powerful connections in Mrs. Stenhouse's book, "Tell It All: The Story of a Life's Experience in Mormonism." Reprints are available for $16 through the Tanner's.

She was born in England in 1829 and described herself as "having religious tendencies from an early age." Becoming a Baptist at 19, she converted afterwards to Mormonism and married T.B.H. Stenhouse, a Scottish convert. The Stenhouses emigrated to Utah in 1855 and later became Godbeites before they ultimately left the faith altogether.

I find her voice is particularly compelling in "Tell It All," and in her description of the ritual anointings that follows, I hear echoes of the experiences of many--particularly women--who've posted here. I think it will be familiar to most . . .

As for her credibility, she writes in the Preface:
Startling and terrible facts have fallen under my observation. These also I have related; but my constant effort has been to tell my story in the plainest, simplest way, and to avoid exaggeration, but never shrink from a simple straightforward statement of facts. I have disguised nothing; and I feel assured that those who from their actual and intimate acquaintance with Mormonism in Utah as it really is, are capable of passing a just and impartial judgment upon my story, will pronounce without hesitation that I have told "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" (p. xiii)
This tone seems confirmed with her narrative on Mountain Meadows; she describes herself as [feeling] "utterly inadequate to tell the story of the Mountain Meadows Massacre--it is so shocking, so fiend-like. And yet it must be told."

The story that follows agrees with accepted historical accounts, and Mrs. Stenhouse doesn't engage in embellishments or wild speculations. It is noteworthy that she writes,
"[an] old friend Eli B. Kelsey travelled with them from Fort Bridger to Salt Lake City, and he spoke of them in the highest terms. If I remember rightly he said that the train was divided into two parts--the first a rough-and-ready set of men--regular frontier pioneers; the other a picked community, the members of which were all more or less connected by family ties. They travelled along in the most orderly fashion, without hurry or confusion. On Sunday they rested, and one of their number who had been a Methodist preacher conducted divine service." (p. 325)
So much for apologists who've criticized inclusion of the minister in "September Dawn." An accurate account of the murder of Parley P. Pratt in Arkansas is also offered, and his killer is identified as "Mr. McLean."

Her description of the attack on the Fancher Train and the individuals she names are consistent with those from its history, William Dame, John D. Lee, Isaac Haight, and George A. Smith.

She also describes the rock cairn monument constructed by Major Carleton's men, and notes,
It is said this monument was subsequently destroyed by order of Brigham Young when he visited that part of the Territory. (p. 334)
So far she's scoring 100% in my gradebook, and Chapter XXV is titled "Mysteries of the Endowment House:--Fearful Oaths and Secret Ceremonies."

Oh my! Trolls and anons and Van Hale . . . Trolls and anons and Van Hale . . .
Not many weeks after our arrival in Salt Lake City, my husband told me that we might now enjoy the privilege of going through the Endowment House.

Now, I had heard so much of the Engdowments and the Endowment House that I quite dreaded to pass through this ordeal. (p. 352)

I knew well that no marriage was considered binding unless it had been celebrated in that place. I knew that the Saints, however long they might have been wedded, were under necessity of being reunited there before they could be considered lawfully married and their children legitimate. According to the highest Mormon authority no marriage is valid unless the ceremony is performed in the Temple. The Temple is not yet built, and as Joseph, the Prophet said, "No fellow can be damned for doing the best he knows how," the Saints meanwhile "do the best thing" and are married in the Endowment House. (p. 354)

The Temple robe, which is a long, loose, flowing garment, made of white linen or bleached muslin, and reaching to the ankle, had been placed upon us just before we took the oaths. It was gathered to a band about twelve inches long, which rested on the right shoulder, passed across the breast, and came together under the left arm, and was then fastened by a linen belt. This leaves the left arm entirely free. The veil consists of a large square of Swiss muslin, gathered in one corner so as to form a sort of cap to fit the head; the remainer falls down as a veil. The men wear the same kind of under garment as the women, and their robes are all the same, but their head-dress is a round piece of linen drawn up with a string and bow in front, something after the fashion of a Scottish cap . . . All marriages in the Endowment House are performed in these robes, and in them all Saints who have received their Endowments are buried. Besides our robes we were instructed to take with us a bottle of the best olive oil. (p.358)
Not having been through the Temple, I leave it to others to comment on the veracity of that one... And...
Miss Eliza R. Snow, the poetess, and a Mrs. Whitney, were the officiating attendants on that occasion. The former conducted me to one of the bathing tubs, and placing me in it, she proceeded to wash me from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet. As she did this she repeated various formulas to the effect that I was now washed clean from the blood of this generation . . . (p. 359)
There followed a description of the Adam and Eve story and the green aprons (Cricket showed me one of those, once, and yeah, verily, Toto and Wings and Sμςg were there to bear witness. 'Twas a marvelous work and a wonder!)

Finally,
We all kneeled down, and with our right hands uplifted towards heaven, we took the solemn oath of obdience and secrecy. We sore that by every means in our power we would seek to avenge the death of Joseph Smith, the Prophet, upon the Gentiles who had caused his murder, and that we would teach our children to do so;--we swore, that without murmuring or questioning, we would implicitly obey the commands of the priesthood in everything . . . (p. 365)
So much for Van Hale, who was actually attempting to slip some of his How-I-Spent-My Summer-at-Sunstone material past us to serve his own agenda. I found the following about a week ago . . .

http://dallas.typepad.com/slant/2007/...

>Van's thesis is that there was not an "oath of vengeance" in the temple endowment ceremony, thus eliminating a commonly understood motivation for the MMM. So does he make a case?

However,

Will Bagley's response was at first surprising. He praised Van's work and research, and said it was a great paper that needs to be published - preferably in the Journal of Mormon History. He said he really likes it when "true blue Mormons" come to defend their faith with serious scholarship. But, and there is a but, Will doesn't completely buy Van's idea. Will said that Van is basically creating two piles of evidence, one for and one against, and choosing the one that ends up the largest. Will criticized Van a little for doing this, but Will went on to discuss some other sources that suggest there clearly was an "oath of vengence" in the endowment ceremony.

Sources like Mrs. Stenhouse who clearly doesn't have an iota of guile in her prose . . .
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Temple Service Got It Wrong
Friday, Dec 28, 2007, at 08:42 AM
Original Author(s): Creationdaywrong
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
What got me to doubting my Mormonism was something I noticed in the Endowment video. I noticed that it had fish and birds created on the 5th day of creation but also had all the animals created on the 5th day. Then Adam is created on the 6th day. After I got home from the my travels to the Temple, I checked my Bible and sure enough. The animals were created on the 6th day, the same as man. Then I check the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses. Both had the animals created on the 6th day. This started to really bug me so on my next trip to the Temple a month later, I paid special attention to the creation as it was portrayed. Yes, they had it wrong.

I made an appointment with my Bishop when I got home and told him about my discovery and asked for an explaination. Quite honestly, he replied that he had never noticed that discrepency and would be going to the Temple the next weekend and would check it out. When he got back, he called me to come in for an appointment and the Stake President was also there. That should have been a clue that something was up. Anyway, my Bishop confirmed that in fact the Temple ceremony DID have the animals created on the 5th day. That he had called SLC to get clarification and was told by GA that it was "Newer Revelation". I asked him how I was supposed to teach my primary kids the creation story as it is in the Bible and Pearl of Great Price, knowing in my heart that it was wrong. The bottom line for them was, "Did I believe in new revelation?" I told them I thought new revelation should be consistent with prior revelation and not totally different. Wrong Answer. They questioned my commitment, my conduct, my thoughts, my studies, and readings. Something must have caused me to "lose my testimony." It was a 4-hour ordeal, I cried alot, I didn't know how to answer them. Finally, they said since I was female, I was not allowed received revelation since I didn't have the priesthood. So trying to find an answer for the obvious conflict was beyond my spiritual reach. I received a letter a few days later from my stake president indicating that I could no longer wear my temple garments, I could attend services but could not take sacrament. I was welcome to continue paying my tithe. Within just a few days I had gone from what seemed a seemingly insignificant error to being an Apostate.

It was tough. My best friends (TBM) wouldn't even talk to me, answer my phone calls, and avoided me at work. Then I started really digging about Mormon history, read "No Man Knows My History", and soon found the whole thing a disgusting fraud. How was I so stupid to be coverted to it in the first place? That's what boggles my mind. I have a Ph.D. and consider myself a very logical thinker. Yet two sister missionaries were able to convince me a bunch of hocus pocus and I was an active member of the church for 2 years. If I hadn't paid attention to the video, I might have been planning a weekend trip to the Temple this next weekend. Instead, I'll be rejoicing with my new found church affiliation.
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The Mormons Have Me In An Eternal Polygamous Marriage To A Wife-Batterer
Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008, at 07:10 AM
Original Author(s): Awaiting In The Hereafter
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
The mormon church has me permanently married, forever, in the hereafter, to a criminal who tried to kill me! True, I chose him and married him in the mormon temple, because he conned me into it, pretending to be kind and spiritual. He is the son of someone high-up in the mormon church, who prevents my petitions for divorce.

Mormons practice polygamy in the hereafter! When a MAN gets married in the mormon temple, then gets divorced or widowed, he can marry another woman in the temple, and if she dies or they are divorced, another, and another. All of the women are sealed to him for eternity in the hereafter. A mormon man is promised other wives, too, in the hereafter--women who were never married, or not married in the temple, etc. A WOMAN can only marry once in the mormon temple. If her temple husband dies, a widow can never marry another man in the temple. If she gets divorced, she can over-ride that marriage IF she marries another mormon male in the temple. My temple husband who beat me and strangled me, married another woman in the temple after I divorced him, so now he will have two wives in the hereafter. When he beat her, she divorced him, and had him thrown in jail. He is still a mormon in good standing, and receives the sacrament in jail. He is the son of someone very high-up in the mormon church.

Now, the rules get more unreasonable: I married someone else in a civil marriage, years later, but not in a mormon temple ceremony. According to mormon rules, our children are sealed (owned by) my wife-batterer first husband, and not their own father! My mormon in-laws did not consider them to be their real grandchildren, even though they were by blood. We won't get into how the mormon church separates families when it advertises it brings families together. This is a cult based on lies.

Are you ready for more? The mormons not only will baptize you, but they will perform a proxy "anointing" ritual on you and a proxy "endowment" ceremony on you. Then--I'm not kidding--they can perform a proxy wedding ceremony for you!

One last example, and I'll let you run away screaming. This is all so complicated to explain, probably because mormon thinking makes no sense. My mormon man friend was in love with my non-mormon cousin, and slept with her, but his mormon family pressured him into marrying a mormon. They got married civilly, and not in the temple. Anyway, my friend and his wife had three children, born and raised in the mormon church. My friend was very unhappy his entire marriage, because his wife was mean, and they never loved each other. After 15 years of misery, he divorced his wife and married my cousin, whom he should have married in the first place. He said she was his soul-mate. Later, his ex-wife died. Well, his children hate my cousin, the wicked step-mother, who is not a mormon. Guess what, these mormon children have planned to wait until their father and my cousin DIE. They are going to go to the mormon temple and have their father Temple married by proxy to their own mother (who he hates)! They can do that. My cousin is as mad about that as you are about your potential baptism.

All these rituals and ceremonies cost a lot of money, paid out by the proxy participants--10% of their gross income.

There is nothing we can do to prevent the mormons from performing these secret ceremonies for dead people. I do know that the families of the Jewish Halocaust victims sued the mormon church, and got them to stop baptizing them posthumously. (we call it "dead-dunking.") Imagine being tortured and killed for your faith and traditions, because you are Jewish--then have the mormons come along and baptize you a mormon on their records. It makes me cry.

God would never invent all this bull, or be this unfair.
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The Temple Experience
Wednesday, Feb 20, 2008, at 07:56 AM
Original Author(s): Former Temple Worker
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Because several posters have left the church prior to attending the temple for their own endowment, some have questions regarding the experience. As has been addressed, a person only attends the temple for their own sake a few times in their lives- endowment and sealing. Even as a member, I believed there was too much secrecy regarding the temple. In the temple there is no covenant not to discuss what occurs there (that is a misconception). The only promises are not to reveal the tokens and names of the tokens. Everything else, in my opinion, could be discussed openly and frankly by active members.

I have not included the words of the ordinances here. In some cases, the ceremonies are lengthy and would interfere with the purpose of this post. The actual temple ordinances can be found elsewhere on the internet.

I. Baptisms for the dead and confirmations

Usually Mormon youth and new LDS converts attend the temple to do baptisms for the dead. When a youth is twelve years old, or a new member is baptized, they can immediately go to the temple for this work after being interviewed by their bishop.

Youth and new members are encouraged to go to the temple wearing their Sunday best. Also, youth are reminded to bring extra underwear because they will be getting wet. Most often, the youth attend as a group with ward youth leaders and bishopric members.

Once at the temple, the bishop presents a group recommend to the male temple worker at the temple entrance desk. He reviews the list as the youth pass, ensuring that each youth present is on the list. This list can only be used once, on that visit.

A. Baptisms

The youth are escorted to the temple baptistery, which is usually off the lobby entrance and separate from other parts of the temple. After getting white jump suits, boys are escorted to the boys locker room and girls go to the girls locker room. These locker rooms are private with individual enclosed changing areas. Each youth removes his church clothes and puts them into a locker and puts on the white jump suit. After dressing, they assemble next to the font. Most temples have church like pews to onside of the font where the youth wait.

Once all the youth are assembled they are reminded to be reverent in the temple. A prayer is offered at the direction of the bishop. Then one of the Melchizedek priesthood holders who came with the group enters the font. He is dressed in a white jump suit too. There is another man who sits at a desk next to the font. His job is to provide names of the deceased person for each baptism. Finally, two men sit overlooking the font as witnesses. Their job is to ensure that the words are properly said and that the youth is fully submerged.

Once the youth enters the font, the man performing the baptism will hold the youth by the wrist, just like a normal baptism. He looks up to the recorder’s desk. Today, most temples have a monitor which projects a name onto a screen. The “baptizer” states the words of the ordinance exactly then lowers the youth into the water. The recorder inches the temple produced sheet of names forward, revealing the next name on the sheet of paper. Then it is all repeated again. Each baptism takes about thirty seconds or so. They will continue unless one of the witnesses interrupts. If there is a question, the ordinance is re-performed. After each baptism, the recorder checks the name completed. There are about six names per sheet of paper. Male names are on blue paper and female names are on pink paper.

Males can only be baptized for deceased men and females can only be baptized on behalf of deceased females.

Depending on the size of the group and the length of time attending, each youth will do about ten to thirty baptisms. After they are done, the youth exits the font and is handed a towel by a sister next to the font. The youth tries to squeeze most of the water out of the drenched jumpsuit before heading to the locker room. The floor from the font to the locker rooms is usually tiled and capable of handling the water.

Once in the locker room the youth re-enters the private changing area and puts on dry underwear and redresses into their church clothes. Hopefully they remembered to bring a plastic bag for their now wet underwear. Once dressed, they wait for their turn to do confirmations. (Some temples let the youth do the confirmations first, while still dressed in the white and dry jumpers, before heading to the font for baptisms).

The next youth enters the font and process continues until all the youth have had a chance to do baptisms. The men will change jobs every so often. The person doing the baptisms usually gets tired from all the lifting.

B. Confirmations

The youth are also able to participate with confirmations performed on behalf of the deceased. In the baptistery area of the temple is a room with a chair and a couple of slightly elevated side stool-like chairs with arm rests. The youth sits reverently in the center chair. Three Melchizedek priesthood holders are seated around the youth, facing him or her. Two of them lightly place their hands on the youth’s head. One performs the ordinance of the confirmation of the church and the gift of the Holy Ghost. The words are nearly identical as the ordinance is for the living. The second man helps by placing his hands on the head of the youth (the ordinance requires two priesthood holders). The third person is the recorder who uses the temple sheet of names. After each name is completed, it is checked off. There are six names per sheet. The youth do about the same number of confirmations as baptisms.

Once all the youth have finished doing baptisms and confirmations and have changed back into their Sunday dress, they reassemble at the pews near the font. Usually a member of the temple presidency thanks them for their time and efforts and reminds them of the importance of the work. After a closing prayer, they leave the temple.

The time that they are in the temple is about two hours, depending on the size of the group.

The completed forms are brought to the temple office and the bar codes are scanned. This information is transmitted to Salt Lake.

II. Own endowment

Only adults attend the temple to receive “their own endowment.” For many males, this occurs prior to leaving on a church mission, or prior to being sealed (married) in the temple. For most women, this occurs prior to being married or leaving on a church mission. Some adults, male or female, will receive their own endowment later – after mission age and after marriage seems unlikely.

Prior to attending the temple, the person must be interviewed by his or her bishop and stake president. The purpose of the interview is to ensure temple worthiness. Most will have some sort of temple preparation classes taught. In my experience, these preparation classes are inadequate because the teacher is not allowed to discuss much of what occurs in the temple during the ceremony.

Once the person is found worthy, two recommends are issued, one is the standard temple recommend which now has a two year duration, and the other recommend is for a specific ordinance (i.e, own endowment or own sealing).

An appointment is made with the temple for a specific date or time. The person is instructed to be at the temple early and to bring garments and perhaps temple robes (for the smaller temples with no rentals). Also, if a sealing is to occur, other documents are needed such as marriage certificate for couples previously wed and birth certificates for children born to the couple who are being sealed to their parents.

Assuming that the person is single for this explanation, the person arrives at the temple. Most young adults are accompanied by their parents (or close previously endowed friends). They arrive at the temple dressed in their Sunday clothes. As they enter the temple doors they are greeted by a temple worker at the entry desk. The temple worker will have been previously told to expect the person.

(The temple is a highly organized place. Most work performed there is scheduled and the workers are highly trained to do temple work.)

In the temples where I served, a temple worker is assigned to accompany and guide the person and their escort. The escort is a person who comes with the attendee – usually the dad or mother (depending on whether it is a son or daughter).

Once the recommends are checked, the person is invited reverently into the temple itself. The ordinance recommend is kept by the temple but the temple recommend is returned to the person for future use. The person is given a small colored tag to pin to their clothes so others know that is it that person’s first time. This tag is helpful to temple workers who can spend extra time with the person and make sure the person is properly instructed.

Normally, a member of the temple presidency speaks with the initiate about the sacredness of the temple and safekeeping the temple garment. The person is told how to properly dispose of the garment once it is worn out, and is instructed to wear it at all times. Men are instructed by the temple presidency and women are instructed by the temple matron or her assistant (these are usually the wives of the temple presidency members). The instruction lasts about fifteen minutes.

The person is escorted to the appropriate locker room (male or female). Normally, the temple has placed a reserve sign on the locker booth for the person. The person is given their own private changing area and locker. (Each changing area is enclosed and has about three separate lockers – not unlike a gym). The person removes all their clothes and adorns a white shield. They have been given a one piece temple garment for temporary use. (I understand that this may have recently changed).

The person is escorted to the initiatory area, which is attached to the locker room area. (The person doesn’t leave the locker room). The initiatory room has four curtained enclosed areas (visualize a square divided onto quarters). The person leaves their garment on a handle in the first area. The person enters the second area. Usually there is a bench and small water faucet. The person sits on the bench. The temple worker (men for male attendees, women for female attendees) addresses the person. The first part is called the washing. When I worked in the temple the person is washed clean from the sins of the world and receives specific blessings for various parts of the body. The temple worker lightly touches those parts with a finger which is slightly damp. This part then another worker enters from the third section. The two place their hands on the attendee and seal those blessings.

The person is then escorted into the third area and is anointed. The process is nearly identical as the washing, but olive oil is used (I understand that this part may have recently changed). After the anointing, another temple worker enters from the fourth area and together with the anointer, seals the anointing by placing hands on the persons head. Finally, the person is escorted in the fourth area and the temple worker there, who just helped seal the anointing, places the garment on the person in a specific manner – right leg, left leg, right arm, and left arm. The person is promised protection and finally is given a new name. The new name is considered very sacred. The person is told never to divulge the new name to another, except at a certain place at the temple. Every male at the temple that day receives the same name and every female at the temple receives the same name; however, the people aren’t told this.

This initiatory part of the endowment takes about ten minutes, in addition to all the changing. As the person leaves the initiatory area, they reenter their locker. The take off the temple garment and put on their own garment. If male, the person dresses in white pants, white shirt, white neck tie, white socks and white slippers. If female, the person puts on a white dress and white stockings.

The temple worker assigned as a guide then checks to ensure all the temple clothing are present in the bundle. For men, the temple clothes are a white temple robe (toga like), a white hat, a white sash, and a green apron. For women, the temple clothes are a white temple robe, white veil, white sash, and a green apron. The clothes are stored in a small white cloth envelope.

The person and their escort are then guided into the endowment room. (In some temples, they are escorted into a chapel, then the endowment room). In the endowment room, the person sits on one side or the other side of the room, depending on gender. Men sit on the right side of the room and women sit on the left side of the room.

Because it is their first time attending, a seat has been reserved in the front row for the person and their escort (usually mom or dad).

The first room in the endowment process is a theatre room. The lighting is soft. In front is an altar with a padded bench in front for kneeling. Behind the altar, or the side, are chairs for temple workers, men and women.

(This description does not include the ceremony itself – it can be viewed elsewhere).

As the ceremony starts, the doors to the room are closed, a male officiator (temple worker) stands behind the altar. He is dressed in a white suit. He presses a green button on the altar and the recorded session begins.

During the session, the person is instructed to put clothes on over the white clothing being worn. Because there are repeated changes in robe positions, the escort is very important. The clothing must be worn properly. Also tokens (handshakes) are given to everyone present four times, corresponding to four different covenants.

At the end of the ceremony the person is invited to stand in the prayer circle, and afterwards, is instructed as to how to pass through the veil. The person is requested to recite back names of covenants and give the newly acquired tokens to a man on the other side of the veil (who represents the Lord). Most need help with this part of the ceremony, so a temple worker stands closely by to help the person. Once through the veil, the person enters the beautifully adorned celestial room where both sexes can now commingle. There are sofas and chairs for reverent and quiet visiting.

After several minutes in the celestial room, the person returns through a hallway to the locker room. They take off their temple clothes, not the garments, those stay on for good. They change back into their church clothing, pack their temple clothes into a small case, and meet their party in the lobby, where they exit.

The first time someone enters the temple for their own endowment, it takes about three hours. Later, when they return and go through for the dead, the session takes about ninety minutes and the total time in the temple is probably just around two hours.

After leaving the temple the person is now endowed. He or she now has a new temple name, wears the garment, has been given the tokens, and has made covenants. According the LDS belief, if the person lives his or her life in accordance with those promises, they will receive eternal life after death – meaning they will live in the presence of God.

III. Own sealing

A. Newlyweds

Both bride and groom will have received their endowment prior to being able to be sealed. They will have been interviewed by their bishop and stake president for worthiness and must bring a separate recommend with them for the sealing, in addition to their normal temple recommends.

Sealings are previously scheduled with the temple.

Sometimes, the bride will not have been through the temple, so on the day of her marriage, she will also go through for her own endowment. As the endowment is a tedious and tiring experience, most brides are encouraged to go to the temple for their own endowment the week prior to the temple sealing.

After both have put on their white temple clothes and temple robes, they are escorted to the veil room. The husband will then learn his wife’s temple name. He is the only other person on earth able to learn it (she will never learn his). This is accomplished by him receiving her through the veil, just as at the end of the temple endowment session. He stands on one side of the veil, in the position of the Lord (highly symbolic) and she stands on the other side. He asks her for the names of the tokens while they make the tokens through the veil. Once finished, he lets her enter into his presence on the other side of the veil. He now knows her temple name. Thereafter, the only other place she can tell him is in the celestial room – and only if he forgets. This part only takes minutes. Temple workers sometimes call this the “short veil.”

While outside the sealing room, the couple usually gets advice from a member of the temple presidency. The bride has received help from not only her mother (if endowed and current temple recommend holder) but female temple workers. Everyone loves a wedding. The male has also been escorted that day too, but has not been as pampered!

Temple guests are escorted in to the sealing room. They must have current temple recommends. Two Melchizedek priesthood holders sit on either side of the sealer. They will be witnesses and will sign their names as witnesses. Commonly, the two witnesses are the fathers – if they are temple recommend holders. Once all the guests have arrived, the couple is brought in the room.

The sealing room is a rectangular shaped room with a temple altar in the center of the room. It has padded benches along all four sides at the bottom for kneeling.

The sealer, a specially set apart male temple worker, officiates. He greets the guests and the couple. After very few words, he invites the couple to kneel at the altar with the husband on one side and the wife on the other side of the altar. They are dressed in all their temple clothes. As the sealing ordinance is spoken, they join hands on the final temple token received.

The sealing is very short. The only words spoken by bride or groom are one short “yes’ from each.

(The words sealing ceremony can be found on the internet).

After words, they can kiss each other (no “Hollywood” kisses are allowed). Then away from the altar, they can exchange rings – it is not part of the ceremony. Guests are invited to greet the new couple as they exit the room. The entire ceremony is short, lasting about twenty minutes, depending on advice from the sealer.

After guests leave, the couple returns to their perspective locker room and dress into picture taking clothing. Usually the bride usually puts on a more elaborate wedding dress and the groom puts on a tuxedo. They leave the temple proper and take pictures outside the temple, where sometimes they greet others not allowed to have attended the ceremony. Once the pictures are taken, the re-dress into their church clothes and leave for a later wedding reception.

B. For previously wedded couples

If a couple is entering to be sealed, the procedure is nearly identical as previously described for newlyweds. If they have children, the children do not witness the husband-wife sealing, they enter latter. When the children enter the room, they too are dressed in white clothes, but not the temple robes. The sealer places each child around the altar kneeling.

There is an exact position for each child. As I understand, the oldest child kneels to the right of his father (who is at the head of the altar – the wife is at the other end), the next oldest child is placed to the left of the father, the third oldest child to the right of the father - next to the oldest, the fourth oldest is the father’s left – next to the second oldest, and so on.

As each child’s name is read, the child places his or her own hand atop of the parents’ hand which are grasped in a temple grip. All the children’s names are called and sealed to their parents as if born into the new and everlasting covenants, meaning the children are now sealed to their parents forever.

This only lasts for about fifteen minutes. It can be a very emotional time as mothers know shed tears believing that their children cannot be taken from them, even by death.

After the ceremony, the family re-dresses into their church clothes in the locker rooms and leave the temple.

IV. Endowment session (Proxy)

The endowment session is the most common temple experience. Once a person receives their own endowment, they never attend an endowment session for their own behalf again. They attend as proxies for the deceased.

In smaller temples appointments must be made to attend the temple. At large temples, endowment sessions start every so often that no appointment is required.

The person enters the temple dressed in their Sunday clothes. The temple worker at the desk, checks the person’s recommend. The person then goes to the appropriate locker room. The person finds an empty locker and then changes into white clothing he or she has brought. Some temples have clothes the patron can rent. Once the person is dressed in white, they go to a small booth usually located in the locker room exit. They enter the booth, and a temple worker gives them the new name on behalf of a deceased person. The person is handed a small slip of paper with the name of the deceased person – or if they brought their own slip for their own deceased family member they bring it into the booth to present to the worker. The words spoken are very similar as to the words used for a first time attendee except that for a recognition that the work is on behalf of the dead. Once the new name is given, the card is checked so that other temple workers know that the new name has already been communicated. Women temple workers provide this for women patrons and male temple workers take care of male patrons.

The person leaves the small booth. (From personal experience, at this point I try to remember the new name given to me.) The person then enters to the chapel, if it is a larger temple, or directly to the endowment room, if a smaller temple. When entering the room, temple workers ensure that the new name has been given by looking for the check mark on the name slip

As previously described men sit on the right and women sit on the left. One couple is asked to be the witness couple – the man will take the first seat nearest the altar and the woman will take the nearest seat on her side to the altar. During the session, the witness couple have to leave their seats frequently as they go and kneel at the altar during the presentation.

(The presentation itself can be found on the internet).

Once the prayer circle has finished at the end of the session, and the instructions have been given to go through the veil, the person sits patiently and waits for their turn at the veil. Temple workers assist each patron through the veil. Most temples can process three to six women and three to six men through the veil simultaneously. Women temple workers are at each “female” veil and male temple workers are at each “male” veil. Their job is to help remind the person of the exact names of the tokens and to ensure that each token is properly performed. Male temple workers stand behind all the veil and test the person as to the tokens. Once the person has exactly made and spoken the tokens and their names, the veil is slightly parted and the person passes through the veil to the celestial room.

Sometimes, when the temple is full, a person may have to wait ten to twenty minutes after the session has ended to go through the veil; however, normally, it only takes a few minutes of waiting. Once in the celestial room, the person can reverently visit with friends or quietly prayer. However, no one is encourage or permitted to stay in the celestial room for very long. After the person leaves the celestial room, they travel to their locker room, renter their booth and change back into their church clothes. Temple clothing is either folded up and stored for later use in the small suite case, or returned to the temple if rented in a laundry slot.

The person then exits the temple through the lobby.

A session lasts about ninety minutes and person is in the temple for about two hours.

The small slips of paper with the name of the deceased are collected by the temple workers at the veil. Once collected they are normally handed to the man who officiated the session. He then brings them directly to the temple office where they are scanned using a bar code scanner and the data is transmitted to Salt Lake. If a patron brought their own card, it is brought to a location near the lobby for them to retrieve after dressing and before departure. A small boxed entitled “endowment” on the card is stamped with the date – reflecting that the ordinance was completed that date. There are also small boxes for initiatory, sealing to spouse, and sealing to parent, on the card.

V. Initiatory (Proxy).

A person, usually by ward assignment, attends the temple to help with the initiatory ordinance for the deceased. Once in the temple, the person presents his or her own recommend. He or she may indicate that they are there to help with initiatory work as it is presumed that most patrons are going to attend an endowment session.

The person goes to his or her respective locker room and are given a temple garment and temple shield to wear. (Since I left some of this has been changed). The person takes off their clothes and puts on the shield.

The person then goes to the initiatory area in the locker room and takes a seat. Once the three temple workers are ready and the patrons are ready (hopefully there are three patrons so no time is wasted), the first patron goes into the first booth, as previously described above.

There are a couple of differences from initiatory work of the living. One difference is priesthood ordination. As the dead have not received the priesthood during life, dead men are ordained elders – the male patrons sit as proxies. This is done in the second booth – the washing booth. The temple worker quickly ordains the dead man an elder in the Melchizedek priesthood. The patron, upon entering the first changing booth was given a list of six names per sheet. Once the priesthood ordination is completed, the worker proceeds with the washing, just as with the living, except it is all done in the name and behalf of the deceased. The patron goes to the anointing booth then the garment booth. This is the other change. The deceased is not given a new name at this point (as would occur with a “live” ordinance.). The person is just dressed with the garment. Once the garment is placed upon the person with the appropriate language , the person exits the booth back into the first booth to await his washing again, on behalf of the next person on his list. The “clother” the worker placing the garment on the person, marks the initiatory box on the sheet once the garment has been placed on the person.

Initiatory is a “carousel” type of ordinance. Three patrons can go through at a time, one in the washing booth, one in the anointing booth and one in the garment dressing booth. It takes about five minutes per name. A sheet takes thirty minutes. Most patrons stay for three sheets (30 names). Once finished, the person changes into their clothes and exits – normally with a lot of olive oil all over them! Again, this may have changed.

The sheets are periodically taken to the office for recording upon completion.

VI. Sealing (Proxy)

Those attending to the temple for proxy sealing are usually there by ward assignment. As usual, they present their recommends at the front desk and inform they are there to help with sealings. They then proceed to their respective dressing rooms and change not only into their white clothes, but also their temple robes. After fully dressing in their temple robes, they exit the locker room and proceed to the appropriate sealing room. Once there they find a seat and wait for everyone to assemble, especially the sealer.

Men act as proxies for husbands or sons and women act as proxies for wives or daughters. Also, two men sit on either side of the sealer and witness each ordinance. For sealing of couples, a man kneels on one side of the altar and a woman kneels on the opposite side of the altar. During the ordinance, works spoken by the sealer, they join hands in a temple grip. Each says “yes” at the appropriate place. The words are similar to a live sealing, but the work is mentioned as being done for specific deceased people. A sealing for the deceased only takes a couple of minutes, so the kneeling couple can do a lot of proxy sealings at one time. The sealer marks the appropriate box as a sealing is performed.

Because knees get tired, and most patrons are elderly, changes in assignments are made about once every fifteen minutes or so.

When sealings are being done for a deceased child, a male patron (patron is a person who attends the temple as opposed to a temple worker) acts as father by kneeling at the head of the altar. A woman patron acting as mother kneels at the opposite side of the altar. A male patron acts as proxy for a male child and a female patron acts as proxy for a female child. Each child is sealed to his or her parents with very similar words as used in sealing children to living parents. As each child’s name is said, the patron rests his or her right hand on the proxy parents’ gripped hands, resting on the altar.

Most proxy child sealing is done one child at a time, but if the sealer identifies several cards with the same family, he can do all the cards at once, using multiple proxies as children.

Sealings don’t take long. In a ninety minute time period, a lot of proxy sealings can be completed. Once finished, patrons exit the sealing room, change into their normal church clothes then exit the temple. The sealer brings the completed cards to the office for recordings and puts the uncompleted cards back into the stack for future work.
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Did The Temple Ceremony Help You Leave The Church?
Monday, Jan 5, 2009, at 07:56 AM
Original Author(s): Satexmo
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
While in the singles ward I met my wife. We dated for a few months, we decided to get married so I got my endowments in February 1991.

The endowment was a horrible experience for me. I felt I had been deceived.

My mom was there, my sister and brother in law, and my future wife. They all carried the all knowing grins before I went into the session. My BIL was my sponsor, the one who helped me through it.

I met with the temple president and they he talked about how special the temple was and that I was going to experience this great event and have spiritual enlightenment.

I went through the session and thought about leaving many times during it. I swore I could feel Satan’s presence when he showed up on the screen. Hair on the back of the neck and goose bumps. I felt many of the things we were doing were evil and contradictory to every thing I had been taught in the Mormon faith.

Secret Combination kept going through my mind. Hand shakes, gestures, and dressed in strange accoutrements just screamed this was wrong to me. This was nothing like doing baptism for the dead.

Two things kept me in the ceremony. First my family was there and I didn't want to make a scene. Second, I truly believed I would see angels or some spiritual manifestation when I went to the celestial room. This was implied by everyone that went through the temple.

After changing back to my civilian clothes and sitting in the lobby of the temple these family members smiled at me like I was now in on the big secret. The smile was nothing malicious but I thought it was more a welcome to the club and you passed the initiation.

When I was in the Navy I crossed the equator and I became a shellback. Essentially you are hazed for 8 to 12 straight hours. Beat with fire hoses; eat green eggs and ham, on your knees all day crawling on non-skid and a host of other sado-masochistic events. I was more comfortable going through that than the temple.

My family asked if I had any questions and I asked a few basic questions. They asked what I thought about it and I said it was interesting. They told me I would understand it better the more I went. My mom told me that the endowments were better now than a few months ago. They had recently changed.

I got married in the temple and expected a huge elaborate show after participating in the endowments. Talk about anti-climactic. The ceremony was done in 5 minutes.

These temple ceremonies really created doubt about the church and I had been back in less than a year. I rarely went to the temple anymore and when I would go with the wife I would cause arguments and then sit in the parking lot while she went inside.

She blamed Satan’s influence, I accepted that but my mind was working overtime trying to reconcile the temple with everything I had been taught in the church before I went to the temple.

Late in the evening sometime in 1994 or 1995 I was at my in-laws visiting when I saw the temple ceremony on a Public Access channel. It was almost word for word with some minor variations. The costumes were the same and they even had the veil, knocker and curtain.

I thought someone was going to hell for showing the temple ceremony but then the show had a break and it was explained the ceremony I just witnessed was a Masonic ceremony. WOW!

Since I couldn't talk about the temple ceremonies with anyone outside the temple I kept this in the back of my mind and tried to ignore what was in my mind even though my mind was screaming at me. I continued to renew my recommend. I only went to the temple for a couple of weddings after that.
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The Story Of One Fat, Naked, Pregnant Lady (me) And Some Poor Spanish Sister
Wednesday, Jan 7, 2009, at 08:08 AM
Original Author(s): Jackmormon'swife
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
When I was seven months pregnant with what turned out to be a 10-pound baby (I was HUGE), I took a RS temple trip from my Florida home to the nearest temple in Atlanta, Georgia. We called it the "Red-Eye Special" because we would meet in the ward parking lot just before midnight, take an 8-hour bus ride to Atlanta, then spend the entire day doing endowments. We'd go out for dinner at a nice restaurant, and then turn around, and drive all the way back home, arriving at the church parking lot at midnight again.

Gawd knows WHY I decided to take this trip in my condition. (Well I *do* know but I'm too embarrassed to say - something about a dead ancestor bothering me to finish her work before my baby was born). Anyhoo, I had to pee like every 15 minutes with that baby. She was sitting right on my bladder, so an endowment session was out of the question for me. An endowment lasts about 2 hours total and you can't leave to go to the bathroom.

So I decided to do "initiatories" for the dead (the naked washing and annointing ritual) where you go around and around in a little circle through tiny booths partitioned off with curtains. The temple workers bless you with oil and water all over your body parts, lay hands on your head, and recite weird incantations, then dress you in your new garments. The process for one dead person takes about 5 minutes. So it's easy to step away for a minute for a potty break if necessary.

So I'd been doing several rounds of wanda's and took a bathroom break. In order to do that, you have to walk naked through the entire locker room with nothing but a white poncho on that is slit all the way up both sides. Most women hold the sides tightly wrapped around their bodies in modesty. But in all my pregnant glory the sides didn't close well on me and I just did my best to dash to the toilet before tinkling all over the floor.

As I was making my dash to the bathroom, I zipped past a Spanish sister who pointed at me with shock and horror. She started screaming at me in Spanish. Well I don't speak Spanish but if I had to translate, her tirade went something like this: "Put some CLOTHES on you freak!! Don't you know you are in the HOUSE OF THE LORD?!"

Immediately she was surrounded by what looked to me to be the entire Relief Society of some South Florida branch. They all started babbling in Spanish at once, patting the sister on the back and trying to sooth her.

I didn't stick around to see what happened in all the hoopla. But I can only guess that she was in the temple that day to take out her own endowment.

Guess who had to get nekkid *next*?

Surprise!
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Funny Temple Moments And Memories
Wednesday, Jan 7, 2009, at 08:09 AM
Original Author(s): Jmoney
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I remember changing into that weird poncho thing and sitting down waiting to go into the little room. As I was sitting there this old guy came out and started talking to someone and he had his arms folded. Then I looked down and through the slits of his poncho I saw his junk swinging back and forth. I threw up in my mouth a little. Its like he was a little tooo comfortable in the poncho.

When the endowment came we had to put on our robes and I looked right and saw my dad, brothers, and brothers in law all dressed the same. They looked like a row of bakers. I had to bite down hard so I wouldn't laugh. Then we had to raise our arms and hear the words of my mouth prayer. Everyone chanting the same thing as they moved their arms up and down. Creepy. I honestly couldn't believe we were doing this. It wasn't spiritual at all. It was shocking and made me feel weird.

My favorite part of the whole thing was listening to the devil. The newer version movie. The younger devil. He was awesome. I still have a hard time not saying some of his quotes.

"You can buy anything in this world with money"
"Here is some of the fruit of that tree."
"I will teach the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture"
"Now go and get Adam to partake."
"Quick, hide! Father will see your nakedness."
"It's delicious to the taste and very desirable."

I remember when I went to the stake farm to pick peaches with my TBM dad. I had a joke and couldnt hold it in. I grabbed a peach with my arm held straight out, I said "Here is some of the fruit of that tree" to my TBM dad. I said it exactly like the devil. He actually thought it was really funny. Which surprised me.
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Originally Reactive Temple Changes Due To Pr Efforts
Thursday, Jan 29, 2009, at 07:58 AM
Original Author(s): Pr Maverick
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
On another thread started by Mason, we discussed the origins of Mormon changes in its previously heavily Masonic and very cult-like temple ceremony.

My point, which was perhaps not very clear, was that LDS Inc. began doing surveys in the 1980s when it, for the first time ever, hired PR agencies outside Mormonism.

What I wanted to say earlier was that the 1990 ceremony changes were not on the heels of a survey alone, but came after the church had gone through heavy criticism of the Temple being weird and cultish through exposure to to it by evangelical Christian groups, with the help of a couple of former Mormons who went very public with a book and film about the ceremonies.

This exposure caused negative public perceptions about Mormonism. It didn't directly affect most members--because most of the members who were either BIC or had strong testimonies continued to go (as I did) and simply ignored the negative press (such as the release of the book and film, The Godmakers), with the "they're just anti's" line etc.

LDS Inc. isn't really concerned with its members' feelings so much as with what the outside (non-Mormon) world thinks and says about Mormons.

They considered "softening up" the ceremony but were advised that to do so, they needed to warm the members up to a possible change, so they issued a series of surveys. Ultimately, this helped provide some buy-in for the members when the changes were finally made. Perhaps there were some in the Mormon marketing department who insisted that members' needs be considered. If a large majority indicated they felt odd or uncomfortable, this gave them the final the go-ahead to make the changes--but the changes were not solely due to the survey results.

Change is the last resort for LDS Inc. but it will make changes if public perception is in the way AND iF it doesn't cost them anything extra to make the change(s) in terms of their revenue model. Decisions they make have to be revenue-increasing.

I agree with you Mason, that most people who thought the old ceremony was "cult-like" stopped going before the change. When members stopped going, LDS Inc. put two and two together, that maybe the public critisms of the grueseome ceremonies or the revelation through the Internet that the ceremony was largely ripped off by the Masonic fraternity, were affecting some of the members, when in fact, the members (like myself) may have simply stopped going without ever really knowing or realizing they were similar to Masonic ceremonies. I knew about the book and film the Godmakers but didn't take note of what was in them until I was asked to work for their PR department. Then I picked the book apart and learned the church had attempted other PR efforts to quell the negative publicity by putting out a defensive book ("The Truth About the Godmakers" by Gilbert Scharffs, 1986, Deseret Book) but they also saw that so long as the ceremonies still contained the offensive gestures and Masonic-like aspects, it would continue to be attacked by its critics.

Ultimately, it was a business decision. They knew they could probably retain more members, and get new ones, by softening the ceremony, and also with the Internet, would not have to speak to the "old ceremony" (except to say "We don't do that anymore...") New members and their families, and generations after, would never know much about the old ceremony, and would be willing to continue going to the temple.

Mormonism has always been very big on surveys and research, numbers and statistics. Anyone who's been on a mission knows this. Since they are a business, they tend to make decisions and changes via reports, which are the result of research and surveys. They are old-school businessmen in this regard and sometimes don't realize until too late that their changes are too slow and insufficient to stem the tide of people leaving. They may have ideas to implement changes but won't act on them u ntil a report or study has been commissioned. In this sense, they are like government--a very bureaucratic corporation. They continue to use surveys as it is a time-honored PR practice and probably will keep morphing but IMO, only if and as it affects their bottom line.

You see changes as resulting from what outsiders think of Mormon doctrine. Fair enough. On that part we completely agree. The church will continue to mainstream itself. (Having said that, the Mormon church has also frequently shown itself to be quite capable of ignoring what outsiders think.)

You state that they want to keep tithing flowing. Again, we agree.

We differ on whether they alter doctrine to pacify inside pressure. You state that "they had to try to change the negative image the church was getting so members would keep going to the Temples ($$)". Members do not generally skip going to the temple because of what non-Mormons think. Members skip going to the temple because they don't want to go to the temple. The temple is bizarre for most thinking people. The changes to the pre-1990 ceremonies made the temple less bizarre. Meaning less revulsion, more attendance and more tithing. They definitely care about what the members are thinking. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

And they are still conducting surveys - and most of the questions have little to do with outside perceptions. I completed one in 1998? as a member and one in 2001? that was sent to all bishops.
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Pathetic PR Spin From The Mormon Church - Honduras Temple
Monday, Feb 2, 2009, at 08:05 AM
Original Author(s): Infymus
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
In June of 2006, the Mormon cult announced that it would be building a temple in Tegucigalpa, Honduras. In June of 2007, they began digging and laid the foundation for the temple, disregarding the outcry from the Tegucigalpa citizens that this new Mormon monstrosity would overshadow a historic Catholic Basilica- in fact, the Mormon cult's temple would dwarf it.

From the PR spinsters of Mormonism:
“Construction will no longer be pursued at the site adjacent to the institute building at the Universidad Nacional Autσnoma de Honduras and across from the Catholic Basilica de Suyapa in eastern Tegucigalpa. Construction of the temple was halted shortly after excavation for the foundation in September 2007 when opposition was met from Tegucigalpa city officials, who felt the temple would overshadow the iconic basilica. Despite months of negotiations, the Church did not succeed in obtaining a response of approval from the mayorship. Out of respect for the laws and to avoid any perceived stand against the Catholic Church, Church officials made the decision to relocate the temple.”
http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/teguc...

In this PR spin, the Cult doesn't mention the fact that they already excavated the site and laid the foundation of the new cult temple. And even though the cult didn't have permission, they continued to work on the temple site. In fact, the ground breaking ceremony was by “invited priesthood only”, meaning that locals that didn't have Joseph Smith's priesthood were not allowed to attend.

Remember, this is the same organization that sees Catholicism as “the whore of all the earth” (see Bruce McConkie, see the Book of Mormon). Mormonism has no respect for any other culture or religion. Mormonism wants the world to act and behave like Mormons and to look just like Utah County. Stop your foolish practices - put on this white shirt and tie and start paying your tithing.
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Went Through The Draper Temple Open House Out Of Curiosity
Friday, Feb 13, 2009, at 07:55 AM
Original Author(s): Asator
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
The temple is surrounded by some big, expensive looking houses. It is very box like in shape, like a big stack of shoe boxes in a pyramid. Having recently seen many cathedrals and churches in Europe (some as old as 1200 + years), the architecture of the building hardly impresses me. I'd call it an eyesore.

You have to go to a chapel, they show you a video of temples, the history of Draper, and then Tommy Monster says this and that. Then, you get on a bus which takes you to the temple. There was a big, long corridor of tents to keep people warm as they walked from the bus to the temple.

You enter at the lobby, which looks like a somewhat nice office building, with a painting of Joseph's Myth on the wall. There is a stone desk that has little blue flecks in it that catch the light in a subtle way and only at certain angles. It was kinda futuristic. Then, you start walking through the temple. The theme is brown, cream, grey, white, gold (for bling?), and some others. There are lots and lots of doors, an ungodly number, but for the open house, most of them are held open so you can get a bit of a sense of the great and spacious nature and layout of the building. Even so, many doors remain closed and no one gets to go in them.

The first thing you see is the baptismal font. It looks very office building like and somewhat futuristic. I remember thinking that it was kinda sci-fi because it has a blue and gold tile compass on the floor, the oxen, and the octagonal font on top. This is in a sunken pit in the floor with a big weird glass wall and then an area with some seats. I thought, "There's some ambiance here, like I'm at Disneyland on space mountain or in a neat office building. It's like the religion of the future- very modern, high tech materials surrounding the crazy rituals which are built with a sense of function and possibly durability but the fashion and art is only thrown in because it had to be. It's not been put there lovingly."

Anyhow, they took us about a maze of clear plastic that went up and down stairs and side to side through halls. I got a bit disoriented because it's so fun house and maze like. Even with the doors all open and the quick pace with which we moved, it was still hard to know where I was. It must be so much worse when you're only using one part of the building and you're cut off from the other parts. I guess they do it to add mystery and confusion?

There were two ordinance rooms- one after the other. They had a little cushiony pedestal thing with lace on it, a stage? with some shiny silver curtains, chairs, and a chandelier. Both were identical in every way and had a sign that said, "This is where we receive instructions on how to return to our heavenly father."

Next, we saw some rooms with murals. One appeared to be Mount Olympus viewed from the peaks just to the south of it. The other was an autumn scene in a forest. Both were kinda neat, but kitsch as well. Then, we saw the celestial room which is located in the big central phallus of the building. It was somewhat cool, but certainly not the most amazing room ever and also dull. It's very tall, white and square. There is a big chandelier that looks like it cost a lot of money. There is a dome on the ceiling that has lilies carved on it. The carpet is cream colored and floral designed. There are some stained glass windows and furniture.

I also saw the sealing room, the brides dressing room, and a whole lot of other stuff. I guess a somewhat interesting thought I had was when I was in the sealing room I looked in those mirrors that reflect each other. As they go off into the distance, the image starts to warp and bend due to the imperfections in the mirror. It reminded me that infinity is improbable and eternal life isn't possible because entropy eventually makes everything wear out. Ironic considering what they represent.

The repetitive rectangles and 90 degree angles on the outside echo the entire interior: Square. The whole place is kind of a fractal of ever appearing squares. 90 degree angles- what architectural originality!

I guess I can't think of much else, and I'm just telling you all this off the top of my head, but here is what I left thinking:

"That was a strange, fun-house office building, religion of the future, needlessly elaborate, kitsch-designed, repetitive, nouveau riche, rather large, silly, memorable and bland place."

I know my bias makes me rate the building lower, but as a fan of architecture, I would rate my favorite European cathedral a 10, the SLC temple a 4, and Draper a 2. It was weird and cool at the same time. Cool in a, "Wow, that must have cost a LOT of money," way. It was the same kind of awe as when you walk into a rich yuppie couple's house and they have the granite countertops that they are so proud of, the mass produced tasteless paintings all over the wall, the thick wood doors and cabinets, plush carpet, expensive lighting, shiny fixtures, etc... but it's so modern and artless that there's nothing to love about it.

In a lot of ways, it echoed the cheap cinderblock, puke orange carpet chapels that dot Utah, only on a larger scale and with the use of more expensive materials.

There is no detail, artistry or intricacy to the building.

Anywho, it's not worth checking out unless you just have to see what a temple is like inside and you live nearby. Otherwise, save your time.
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My Temple Experience As A Former Temple Worker
Thursday, Feb 19, 2009, at 07:57 AM
Original Author(s): Former Temple Worker
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
My wife and I worked for two years in the L.D.S. Temple in Manti, Utah. This is a temple where the ceremony is what they call "live": that is, unlike other temples, where much of the drama is presented by motion picture, in Manti there is no film. Everything is done in person by men and women who have been appointed and set apart as temple workers.

As a Mormon, I had come to believe that the temple was supposed to be the most sacred place on earth, a place where God did dwell.

When I first started working as a temple worker I was very excited to accept the calling. During all my life in the Mormon church I was told, and I believed, that the temple was the most sacred place on earth and that in the temple one could get closer to God than anywhere else. I was told that this was his house. I was also taught that the Adversary - that is, Lucifer - could not dwell in this holy place. I had been taught that belief by my Mormon friends and by church leaders.

The first day I started serving in the temple, I was amazed at all the conflict I saw between the temple president and his wife as they handled the affairs at the temple. There was resentment, arguing, bickering, jealousy, bad feelings back and forth and foul words that I would not use with my own family. Many of the other temple workers were not happy at all with the temple leadership. It seemed as if I was being placed in a dysfunctional home and could not get out. As time went by it got worse and worse until the presidency was finally changed. I thought it might get better then, but other problems came up.

At this time I was also serving in the Bishopric and we had as many problems in the temple as we did in our ward.

I had worked there for one year when I was called to the position of assistant supervisor over our shift. That required more meetings and more responsibility. One of my jobs sometimes was to gather up the used name tags that the patrons wore with the name of the dead person for whom they were going through the temple as proxy. These tags contained the name of the dead person so that temple workers could read the name off the tag when needed at various places in the ceremony. I would return the used name tags to the temple office, but then I found that the same names were used a second day, and to my amazement the same names were used for a third day. I thought, What is happining here? Why do they use the same names three days in a row? I asked my supervisor about it and he told me that they always used the names of all persons submitted to the temple for temple work for those three days consecutively, and then they are sent to another temple and used again the same way and so on and so on. I thought that thiswas very odd. It was as though they did not have enough names for patrons to use fresh names each day. Why would they waste the time of each member going through the temple for the same person for three days in a row, when the ceremony had already been done for that person the first time?.

The next concern I had was about the attendance for each temple session. Only three to fifteen church members were going through each session each hour of the day, hardly enough to make it worth while to even keep the temple open. Saturdays were the only days they had full sessions, which would have been about 125 church members per session. The church leadership was very concerned about temple attendance. Why were they not getting members out to the temple? This was a serious problem church-wide. It was determined that one of the main reasons for poor attendance was the ceremony itself, parts of which were very offensive to some patrons. So they conveniently removed and changed some of the more offensive parts in the ceremony, to try to increase attendance.

They also wanted to cut down the time it took to go through a temple session. Patrons were dissatisfied with how much time was spent in going to the temple. So the leaders felt that if they cut down the time maybe more would attend. They had already cut the ceremony down several times from its original eight-hour verson in the early 1900s to four hour sessions in mid 1900s, then to two and one half hours per session in about 1970, to one hour and forty five minite sessions in 1990. The sessions would start at 7:30A.M. and run every hour until 9:30 P.M.

Apparently the prophet was so concerned about attendance and numbers he sent a bulletin to all the temples asking help in trying to find out what to do to increase temple attendance. So at the temple meetings leadership asked for suggestions as to how to get members to attend the temple. It was decided that each ward would be asked to get at least 15 couples or more to attend the temple daily. That was a joke, trying to get more members to attend or to make a showing. It seemed the church was more concerned about numbers than dealing with personal feelings and making it worth while for patrons and temple workers, who were giving their free time to work through the daily sessions. They even suggested that certain couples be called on a one year mission just to serve as patrons to go through temple sessions. They tried everything. Anyway, temple attendance was and had been for several years very, very low.

After serving and going through sessions and learning the temple ceremony I wondered why anyone would attend the temple ceremony. Most people who had been through it more than a few times thought it was boring, most people went to sleep during sessions, or did not pay attention. Those going to the temple for the first time often felt very uncomfortable, but because everyone acted as though it was sacred and important, they just figured that there was something wrong with themselves. They were told to come back often and then they would understand better what the ceremony was about. I think that most first-timers left with fear and amazement as to their frightful experience.

When I attended another temple in another city they had a sign in the foyer asking for volunteers to work in the temple. The sign was posted for a year and may still even be there today. That was in a town with a 75% Mormon population and many retired couples. I always wondered why there was such a problem getting church members to attend the temple. There was just no interest. While I was serving in two bishoprics over a five-year period, it was always a serious problem to get church members to attend the temple even once every two months, and the church leaders suggest one should attend at least weekly.

The changes in the temple ceremony have been very drastic since the original temple ceremony was instituted by Joseph Smith. One of those changes involved something that really bothered me, which was removed in about 1927. It was a part of the temple ceremony up to that date, called The LAW OF VENGEANCE. Temple patrons were told to stand and raise their right arms to the square and told: "You and each of you do solemnly promise and vow that you will pray, and never cease to pray, and never cease to importune high heaven to avenge the blood of the prophets on this nation, and that you will teach this to your children and your children's children unto the third and fourth generation. All bow your heads and say yes." Does this sound like a Christian church if there is no room for forgiveness?. This oath was one of the main reasons that 125 people - men, women and children - were killed (shot mostly in the head) by members of the Mormon church in 1857. And then the church tried to cover it up and blame it on theIndains. These horrible murders in southern Utah were later known as the Mountain Meadows Massacre. The participants who did the killing were commanded by local church leaders to "do their duty" .... and that was to shoot and kill the men, women and children above the age of seven years of age, so there would be no witnesses. They were commanded to avenge the death of the prophets.

I found the Mormon temple not at all like I had been taught to believe it would be. The temple ceremony was one of the main reasons I left the Mormon church. I soon realized the Mormon church was not the church I had been told it was or I thought it was. It certainly was not the church of God as I had been told.

Many who came to the temple never wanted to come back. It was a very depressing experience for me and my wife and very sickening, especially if one believes that it was designed by God. I was ashamed of having served there, after I found out the truth. I realized I could no longer serve a God who was so changable, violent and deceptive.

The temple ceremony used in the Mormon Church was copied after the Masonic order that Joseph Smith belonged to, as did other members of his family. If you read the Masonic temple ceremony you will find it almost identical.

I am glad I left the Mormon church when I did after thirty-five years of dedicated service. I really call it imprisonment of the mind and body. We are now free to enjoy the rest of our lives in peace. Thanks to God for opening my mind to the deceptions of Mormonism before my life was over. I hope members in the Mormon church can begin to think for themselves, instead of allowing the church to do their thinking for them, and realize that the Mormon church is not at all that it purports itself to be. In my experience the Mormon church claims it is a church that brings families together, but I have in my thirty-five years of experience found just the opposite: it separates more families than it has ever brought together.

The Mormon church claims an 11 million membership, and the truth is that only 35-40% are active in the religion. I found myself and others in Mormonism to be very judgemental with others, and church members would look down on others that were not members, either feeling better than them or feeling they were not going to heaven unless they joined the Mormon church. That is in itself a sin, to judge others. If the Mormon people would spend as much of their time judging themselves and allowing others to live their own lives, as they do judging others, they would be a better group of people. - "Happy"

© 2000 Richard Packham Permission granted to reproduce for non-commercial purposes, provided text is not changed and this copyright notice is included
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How About Telling Your Temple Dead-Dunking Experiences?
Wednesday, Mar 4, 2009, at 07:30 AM
Original Author(s): Cheryl
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I did this ritual in the SL and Logan temples when I was a kid.

The TR interview was simple. All of the 12 and 13 year olds lined up at bishop's door. He took less than a minute with each kid. He said something like, "Do you believe in the church, the prophet, and do you try to attend your meetings and keep the commandments?"

We each answered, "Yes."

The next week we were off to the temple, full of excitement about entering the sacred hall where Jesus communed with GAs and ghosts paced the floor biting their fingernails in anticipation of being dunked into the one true church.

The women called us together and with shame in their voices asked us to confess if it was that time of the month. I think one girl from another ward was forced to sit on the sidelines and be smirked at while the rest of us were found worthy to participate.

A big embarrassment for me was the flimsy outfit, a white one piecer, paper thin, with utilitarian buttons neck to crotch. The legs were so wide a splashing wave could flap open the suit up to the waist.

What's worse is that we were nude beneath the suits. Bras or panties might have embroidered days of the week or gray elastic threads which would nullify the baptisms.

The experience wasn't so bad for me. I was able to keep the wide leg openings from rising to high. I did feel like a drowned rodent though from climbing up and down the stairs nearly being dunked for a ghost and confirmed in a stones throw and dunked again and again.

At the end, each girl was forced to strip naked and drop her sopping suit in a bucket before the matron would hand over a handtowel which the girl tried to wear from the stripping stall to the end of a hallway and the locker room.

It was humiliating for me since I grew up with constant reminders that modesty's more important than food or water. This temple experience told me that modesty is good and proper in daily life but is something the church owns and takes away at will.

Does anyone else remember doing this ritual?

Was ther oogling?

Nudity?

Ghost experiences?

A picnic after?

A lunch in the cafeteria or in a restaurant?

Was the experience scary, embarrassing, fun, spiritual?
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Temple Film Production
Thursday, Mar 12, 2009, at 01:35 PM
Original Author(s): Ken Taylor
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I work in film production, and worked on both temple films when they were re-made. The first we filmed entirely on stage at the LDS Motion Picture Studio in 1988; the second was filmed out on location in 1990.

The studio built a complete film processing lab in order to avoid outsiders seeing the footage when the film was processed. It was an astronomically expensive undertaking, and for a number of years afterward they kept the lab running to process church stuff, but eventually the costs WAY outweighed the benefits, and they have since shut it down (smart since everything is moving digital anyway).

There are at least three of us who worked on the temple films who are now openly gay and no longer mormon. I know of at least two others who are still active and in (public) denial.

I have TONS of stories about those experiences.... I cannot even tell you what a horrible experience it was for everyone. Everything went wrong, all the time. Tempers flared. There was so much tangible tension on the set all the time. At the time, of course, everyone thought it was satan trying to prevent the projects from being made -- but now, looking back, I think it is way more accurate to say that the energy just was not lining up.

We would drive endlessly, leaving at 3am, to arrive on this huge church-owned ranch on the Utah-Wyoming border, a ranch so vast you can stand there and horizon-to-horizon was all church property. We'd film all morning, then take a long break in the middle of the day, then film again all afternoon-evening. The hours were horrendous; often the weather was awful. One day we all fled to the trailers because a huge stampede of mad cows came crashing through base camp, tearing through everything.

We had code-names for all the characters so that anyone picking up our walkie-talkie broadcasts would have no clue what we were doing. Adam and Eve were referred to as "Jack and Jill" and Peter James and John were called "The Three Bears." We nicknamed the film itself "Chronicles." God and Jesus were "the shiny guys."

Before production, the entire studio was dedicated by Hinckley as a Temple, and no one was allowed on the lot without a recommend. I think once both projects were done it was assumed the studio was "un-dedicated" since no one came back to remove the official designation as a "temple."

The scripts, wigs, and other props were kept in a large vault (pretty much exactly like the big bank vaults you see in movies) and every morning we had to count every page of every script to make sure none were missing; scripts were never set around anywhere but were always in someone's personal possession; at the end of the day we again went through every copy of every script to count pages. (Forget that anyone could have taken a script to the copy machine down the hall and made 50 copies; no one really admitted that at the time!) But it was almost freakish how terrifically important we all were. You would have thought Armageddon was on the verge of happening if we slipped up on one thing.

We filmed the altar for Adam and Eve on a private ranch here in Utah, but when we made contact of course no one told the owners what film it was. One morning after we had built the set but before we started filming, we got a call from the owners, completely unhinged and upset because they had found a stone altar on their property and thought we were doing satan-worship!! At that point, the church told us to let them know about the project so they would not freak out again. That location was awful; deep mud everywhere, and we had to make new roads to get our equipment to the set. Then of course the helicopter was a nightmare, because of the wind it created....

Anyway, I am rambling, but this thread brought back a ton of memories.

As far as the ceremony itself, the creepiest thing to me at the time of my first experience was that - before the ceremony even begins, you have to raise your hand and covenant to abide by what you are not even aware of at that point, or else you can withdraw, of your own free will. How can you covenant to accept everything you have not yet even seen? That was wacked to me. But of course, with everyone you know sitting around you, it's not like you would dare say "wait a minute, tell me what I am getting into and THEN ask me to covenant about it."

For years I kept all my paperwork related to the temple films, thinking one day they would be a really cool souvenir to show my kids. But after my catharsis of getting ex'd, one day I just threw it all into the dumpster along with my temple clothes and garments.

My last trip to the temple was devastating. I was in a terrible marriage to a mentally-ill wife, and of course was struggling greatly with my homosexuality, and in the celestial room I just prayed for help and guidance - why, when I was trying SO hard, was everything in my life so miserable? Why was god not there to help me be strong? Why was I forced to go to the temple alone and not with my wife, whose illness was religiously-induced, and who therefore was never able to draw strength from church, but only increased misery? And I sobbed in the celestial room and there was utterly no response from the universe. I was completely bereft of comfort; and I somehow new that if solace was not to be found even in that 'holy' place, that something was terribly wrong - and not necessarily with me.

It would be a few years before I got divorced and then came out. But that last trip to the temple was the beginning of the end for me. As I left, I was determined never to return. I would later lie my way through interviews, knowing I would never use my recommend, but knowing I HAD to have one or I would no longer be allowed to work on church films.

For some of us, it unravels slowly, and for others like a bolt of lightning. But when you come to now certain aspects, and, frighteningly, when you *allow* yourself to ask the searing questions, part of you knows, even then, that you're on the way out. At least in retrospect it feels that way.
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The First Person To Touch Your Naked Body On Your Wedding Day Is A Stranger
Friday, Mar 13, 2009, at 11:48 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Note: This is prior to the 2005 changes to the Temple Ceremonies.

Imagine:

You are taken to a locker room (think High School PE class). You get undressed, and are whispered to put the shield on, take you garments with you to this shower curtain cubicle. Since I was married as a teen, and before the slitting one's pretty throat pantomime was ended...polygamous long-john, one piece undies were "temple garment".

Keep in mind, this was my wedding day!

Since we were told not to question by those we most loved (Mother, aunties, grandparents, and RM husband to be), in we go to drink the kool-aid.

Honestly, I knew something was wrong with this picture at that moment.

The touching began, all in the guise of holiness. I knew everyone in my family had done this at that very moment. Not before! And it was done. She got the garment, and held it open for me to step into. Why? I don't know. (At that time, all garments were one piece. Perhaps so we did not fall down from the slick floor?)

And back to the locker room to now put our pretty dress over these polygamist long-john underwear. And this was again...my wedding day. The first person on one's wedding day to touch you in the temple is not your husband or wife. After all those years of being taught not to pet, or touch another person, to be modest.

The first person to touch your naked body on your wedding day is a stranger.
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Before Going To The Temple, I Must Say I Did Not Know What To Expect
Friday, Mar 13, 2009, at 11:56 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Speaking as a BIC guy, married to a nevermo girl for several years before going to the temple after she converted, I must say neither of us knew what to expect.

My wife told me last night that she hardly remembers the day because she thinks she was in a state of shock.

I was told by someone, prior to going for the first time, that we both would have to remove our street clothes, get naked, and go through some sort of ordinance.

I was a bit apprehensive, as it wasn't explained whether we did that together, in the same room, in front of other people, or what, so I was just a bit reluctant to go through the whole process. But, as others have said, "family" and friends put so much pressure on you to do it, you just do it.

I was a bit relieved that it was a separate, from the females, ordinance, although thinking back now, maybe it would have been more fun to do it together. LOL.

We went through in 1980, before all the changes, and wore the open "sheath".

Anyway, the old fart who touched me, had no respect for my privacy, and got so near my equipment I was sure he was going to touch me there. I was getting pretty uptight before it was finally over. And then going through the motions in getting to the celestial room, I really wondered what the hell I had gotten myself and my good wife into.

After we left the temple, my bishop said "I hope that was a good experience for you". I just looked at him and said "interesting is a better way to express it". After that, I fought every attempt to get me back in the temple. But as a HC member, I was "required" to go. Yuk.

Thank doG, we are almost two years out of the cult.
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Pres. Monson: You Do Not Own My Temple Experience
Friday, Mar 13, 2009, at 12:02 PM
Original Author(s): Mireille
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Not Yours.

What you own is the ability to cow Church membership into silence about the most sacred event in their lives. And at that, you've been pretty successful. Nobody dares talk much about the Temple outside of its "sacred" precincts.

However, what you do NOT own is the ability of former members to talk about our Temple experiences. Like you, we went through the Temple, were washed and anointed, clothed in the "holy garment of the priesthood," watched the Temple film, learned the signs and tokens and were finally pulled through the veil. Our Temple experience is as much a part of our life experience as is yours. The difference is that we are no longer bound by any oaths or covenants that we executed under duress within Temple walls. (You might want to ask Elder Oaks what an "unconscionable contract" is.)

And, since we are no longer bound, we are as free as we want to be to discuss what happened to us within the Temple. (And, I would argue, no member is bound by the unconscionable oaths sworn within the Temple.) Some of us may choose not to discuss the Temple, for whatever reason. That's our choice. But some may choose to do so, and that is ALSO our choice. You can't take that away from us. It is part of our life experience.

You can stamp your little feet and issue statements that are alternately sad and outraged, but the fact of the matter is this: You Do Not Own My Temple Experience. And I am free to talk about it if I want.

And, if the former members who are writers on "Big Love" want to write about the fictional Barb Henrickson's thoughts about the most important thing in her previous Mormon life, particularly since she's facing excommunication, that is their literary right. They can take their life experiences and mold them into a narrative for their fictional television show. And, again, stamping your little feet and issuing statements is not going to change that right.

So, my advice to you, President Monson, General Authorities and faithful members, is this. Understand that those of us who lived in your world are no longer bound by your secrets. We may choose to honor those out of respect, but we are not bound, and we are FREE to discuss the Temple. This should have been obvious to you years, nay, decades ago.

Again: You Do Not Own My Temple Experience. Not Yours. Live with that.
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"I Don't Understand The Temple, So I'll Keep Going Until I Do!"
Monday, Mar 16, 2009, at 07:35 AM
Original Author(s): Cludgie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
"I don't understand the temple, so I'll keep going until I do!"

How many have you have heard that one? I must have heard it quite literally dozens of times. It would seem to me that no one really has ever been able to figure out just what the endowment is really about. You go the the temple prep courses, which don't prepare you for anything that actually happens in the temple, and when you go there's a bunch of stuff that has no real continuity or sense. But real believers always say that it's proof they have to "return to the temple often." Maybe this was just a brilliant ploy by the church, eh? I dunno.

After they truncated the temple endowment ceremony in 1990, it left great holes in the already disturbingly nonsensical "session", and now it's even less understandable than before. At least the whole schtick in the older version with the minister, singing the hymn, seeing the poor minister get stiffed by Satan, etc., added some kind of story line, even if it was a stupid one.

(NOTE: When I first started going through, in the SLC temple Satan wore a Masonic apron complete with columns, checkered pathway, and compass/square, as his "symbol of my powers and priesthood." I thought that was gutsy, implying that Masons were Satan-worshipers. The minister used to lead the congregation in "Somewhere the Sun is Shining"--it was in an older version of the hymnal--although that hymn would sometimes be replaced by "Onward Christian Soldiers". The old actor folks would get confused and say their lines wrong, and someone would prompt them. Elohim and Jehova (generally rickety old guys in their 70's and 80's) appeared in... AN ELEVATOR!! Land o' Goshen, it was great. It was also about 4-5 hours long, depending on how many folks had to get through the veil, and how far back you were. You had to hold your bladder. I'd get to the veil and quickly say,

Healthinthenavelmarrowinthebonesstrengthintheloinsandin
thesinewpowerinthepriesthoodbeuponmeandmyposteritythrough
allgenerationsoftimeandthroughoutalleternity.

Whew. I can still remember it, sort of. How'd I do?)
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What Happened To Me In The Temple That Led Me Out Of The Church Completely
Monday, Mar 16, 2009, at 07:36 AM
Original Author(s): Cherie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Actually, it has been over 15 years now so it's time to talk about it.

What initially led me out of the church wasn't the doctrine (at least not on a deep level yet), but it was my own exhaustion. I was the Young Adult leader in my singles ward and I was very good at it. It was a full time job keeping everyone happy, entertained and living righteously. I had a horribly abusive family, but I had moved away from them and thought that would be enough. After going through just hell with them, it hadn't yet occurred to me that the problem was the church and it had poisoned my family.

So, I was going through the motions of my calling and became quite the celebrity in the ward. That wasn't my intention, I'm just naturally outgoing.

I need to say that at the time I was living with a relative and was not working full time because I was "serving the Lord" full time instead thinking at the time that if I did that that he would bless me with a husband. (Obviously I don't feel that way now, just Morg crap from years of indoctrination).

So, I've been doing the calling for about 6 months. Remember, this is after doing the same calling in a different ward in a different state for over a year, doing the mission and all the stupid callings as a teenager. Also remember I was what I thought was a TBM.

Well, in July of that year we all went to the temple. I walk in the endowment room and go to sit down and immediately start to feel like the energy, my life force almost was being drained from me. I just couldn't focus, felt horribly tired and like my body was dead. When it came time to stand up, I did, but then colasped to the floor. Obviously this freaked me out because I was the picture of health, robust and a "friend of the friendless". Well, I somehow pulled myself together and was asked if I wanted to continue. I said "no". This in and of itself was a big deal. So I left the endowment room and got just outside and collapsed again. I just couldn't move. All the temple patron was worried about was giving her back that damned piece of paper with that name on it. It was stupid.

Fast forward. I go home, start feeling better, shake the whole thing off and go back to the temple a month later. Same thing happened. This was not cool. Something was wrong and now my sub-conscience was awakening to the fact that something about the church was dead wrong.

Two months later I'm at church and I meet this young woman who obviously had had a rough life. She was LDS newly off her mission but physically she was not the preferred size or shape and was treated as such. I saw her pain and befriended her. I did this knowing that I was sort of bending down to help her up emotionally, but I thought that this is what Christ would do and excused the fact that I knew I was getting involved with someone who had some really serious issues. But I was "Cherie!" I was the "friend of the friendless" whose job it was to make everyone feel like they were loved, even to her own determent. (btw, I'm over that thinking now. If the "Lord" has some work to do, he can bloody well do it himself!) Well, apparently I was about the only person who had befriended this person in a long time and she decided I was her savior. It became totally suffocating for me. I listened, I understood, I helped, I did everything a good friend was supposed to do, but she was railroading all over my boundaries, the ones I didn't know I had yet.

One day, I don't remember if I was at home or at church, but I was walking and then suddenly, all my energy was gone and I collapsed. Every time I was around her this happened. I was scared. I tried to will myself to be "fine" as all good Mormons do, but it never lasted more than a couple of days. If I was at church, and someone started spouting Mormon crap I'd just lose all my energy and fall in the floor and I'd have to be taken home. I felt like I was a cripple.

Finally, it happened, the most frightening, most wonderful day of my life. I collapsed and couldn't get up for 3 months.

During this time the most amazing thing was happening to me. I was reconnecting with my "true self". Whenever I'd try to get out of bed and assume the normal "Cherie, the expected entertainer, 'friend to the friendless', the one who never has any problems but who is always there for others", my energy would just leave me. It was as if my true self was saying..."Cherie, it is time to leave this church, this family, these people, and realize that you are ok, you have boundaries, you don't have to say 'ok' when you don't feel 'ok', and you can say no!"

Finally, after three months, I had learned to stay away from all things that would suck my energy and I've been fine ever since.

However, it was my wake up call that something was horribly amiss with the church and that is when I googled "anti mormon" and found this site! I stopped going to church before I found out about the real history. For me that was profound.

From there I started a major journey to reconnect with myself and the world and plug back into my hopes and dreams. I went to counselling and for the first time learned the word "boundary". She actually asked me "how I was". No one had ever asked me that before. It just changed my life.

I've now walked away from my tbm family, the church, and even my country for awhile to give myself a chance to be with "Cherie" again. It has been amazing.

I think the point to all of this is that under all the bullshit we are taught at church, there is still the current of "self" that still flows through us and for some of us that "current" becomes a raging "river" and you are forced to listen to it. I'm so glad I did.

I think that to be in touch with yourself is to be free and it is true that when you follow your self, your heart or what have you, you will always find your own happiness. It might not be others, but it will always be for you.

I just sit here so thrilled that my spirit was so smart to collapse. It knew that that was the only way to get my attention as I was so TBM at the time. Our "selves" are amazing.

Go HBO! Show the world the crap that lives in the temple!!! Whoo Hoo!!
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My First Temple Endowment Experience
Monday, Mar 16, 2009, at 07:37 AM
Original Author(s): Deconstructor
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Growing up as a faithful member of "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" I always looked forward to going to the temple. I have many memories as a child of my parents taking their little suitcases and going for the evening to attend the temple. They wouldn't say what they actually did in the temple and their suitcases were off-limits. Nonetheless, I looked forward someday to going with them to that special place.

After my 19th birthday, I took those standard church temple preparation classes at the Stake Center. After the six classes, I was even more excited about attending the temple because they expounded on the teaching that temple worship was centered around Jesus Christ.

Those classes didn't provide any real details about the temple ceremony. And none of my family or friends that had already participated would tell me what happened there. All I knew was that the temple endowment included a play/movie "about Jesus" and church members made sacred covenants to "be more Christ-like."

So I prepared for my first time all excited, expecting the endowment ceremony to be about the ministry of Jesus Christ. I thought, perhaps they would enact the Sermon on the Mount? Or maybe they would show the Last Supper and have us participate as disciples? Or maybe they would portray other scenes in Christ's ministry that were lost to time that revealed spiritual meanings.

Above all, I fully expected the temple covenants to be related to Christ's ministry - helping the poor and the sick, forgiving others and loving one another. I imagined that I would see some of Christ's parables enacted, and then make a covenant to do as Jesus taught. For example, covenant to be a good Samaritan, or forgive the prodigal sons among us, or not judge others.

To spiritually prepare for my first temple experience, I read the four New Testament gospels. So the example of Christ's life and his message were so vivid in my mind. I imagined the temple would be an elaboration on the main things Jesus had lived and taught us to do.

My first temple experience was the Salt Lake Temple, where they still do the "live" ceremony instead of the movie.

What a disappointment.

Not only was the endowment far removed from the New Testament Jesus Christ, it didn't even have anything to do with what Jesus taught the Native-Americans in the Book of Mormon either.

Even more of a let-down was that Jesus (called "Jehovah" in the endowment) hardly had any real speaking parts. In the temple endowment, Jehovah is nothing more than a glorified messenger boy, shuttling messages between his father, Elohim, and Peter, James and John.

Jesus Christ's brother Satan, on the other hand, is the star of the temple ceremony. For example, he tells the audience to put on their aprons and everybody does it. He preaches little sermons to the audience and converses with Adam and Eve.

After attending the temple, there is no way I could honestly believe that the Mormon temple is a bastion of Christianity or Jesus Christ. I get more Jesus Christ out of a 15-second written blessing on the Sacrament every Sunday than in the two-hour temple endowment ceremony.

What was your first temple experience like? Was it what you expected?
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The Many Ethical Problems With The Temple
Monday, Mar 16, 2009, at 07:42 AM
Original Author(s): Parberry-Zimmerman
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
This has been discussed before on many forums but I think it is key aspect of the temple experience. The temple ceremonies involve a string of unethical practices that leave a person very little opportunity to change their mind.

1. You are not informed a priori what is going to happen.

2. Without any information you are asked if you want to change your mind before the doors are shut not to be reopened until the ceremony is over.

3. The doors are closed and presumably locked.

4. You have all of the pressure of family and friends surrounding you who would be very disappointed in your "unfaithfulness", "rebellion", and "unworthiness" if you were to not follow through by performing the entire ceremony.

5. The expectancy of a mission or a wedding in the following days. You would need to cancel your mission or wedding if you did not follow through with all that entails. This would include contacting all of the wedding guests. Many people would suspect "immoral behavior" because you were not marrying in the temple. The same would be true of not serving a mission after backing out of the temple ceremony. This would greatly influence the person’s standing in the Mormon community, their prospects for marriage, and many friendships would be strained.

6. During the ceremony you swear before god, angels, and witnesses under threat of death pre-1990 and currently under threat of eternal punishment not to reveal what you have learned.

7. Many people feel disoriented after the washings and anointings particularly in the past when you were naked other than a poncho with no sides.

8. You are subjected to the identity masking practice of dressing identically in white with everyone else in the room.

9. You are subject to the disempowering practice of dressing in odd temple robes, faux fig leaf aprons, and unusual hats.

10. Many people are confused and disoriented by the fact that their family and friends in attendance have participated in these bizarre ceremonies repeatedly in the past and have been pressuring you participate too.

11. Many people are also dismayed or concerned that they are participating in secret oaths and combinations that are forbidden by the Book of Mormon.
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Why The Temple Ceremony Cannot Have Come From Solomon's Time
Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:29 AM
Original Author(s): Spongebob Squaregarments
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
WHY DOES THE LDS TEMPLE CEREMONY HAVE THE SAME SIGNS AND TOKENS (AND MANY OTHER SIMILARITIES) AS THE MASONS RITUALS?

We’ve been taught that the purpose of the temple is to learn the key words, signs and tokens to enable us to enter into heaven. In the LDS handbook Preparing to Enter the Holy Temple, that the Church provides to members that attend ‘temple prep’ classes, the following quote is given by Brigham Young, and often quoted by modern prophets as well including the Oct, 2007 Ensign pp 20-21:

"Let me give you the definition in brief. Your endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, after you have departed this life, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation in spite of earth and hell."

So why are the signs and tokens, which the temple ceremony revolves around, virtually the exact same as used by the Masons? Faithful members will often give the only possible answer and that is the belief that the Masons had the temple knowledge since Solomon’s time.

However this is disproved by Mason’s historians who state that Masonry originated with the stone-cutter trade guilds of Medieval Europe and have absolutely nothing to do with King Solomon’s temple. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, the pro-LDS apologetic organization FAIR also confirms that the Masons did not have the ceremony since Solomon’s time and that it is only a myth.

If you go to FAIR’s official site and search for ‘Masonry’ you will find many articles and quotes that support the fact that the Masonry rituals clearly do not date from Solomon’s time. Here’s a few:

“Unfortunately, there is no historical evidence to support a continuous functioning line from Solomon's Temple to the present. We know what went on in Solomon's Temple; it's the ritualistic slaughter of animals.” “The Message and the Messenger: Latter-day Saints and Freemasonry” by Greg Kearney

“Masonry, while claiming a root in antiquity, can only be reliably traced to mediaeval stone tradesmen.”

“It is clear that Freemasonry and its traditions played a role in the development of the endowment ritual…”

FAIR offers no real explanation for the plagarization of the signs and tokens by Joseph Smith from Masonry. For the other similarities between the Temple Ceremony and Masonry they sometimes state that Joseph just borrowed the form of the ceremony. But since the Church preaches that the signs and tokens as presented in the temple (and in Masonry) are indeed necessary to gain entrance into heaven, then there is no explanation as to how the Masons developed the sacred signs and tokens in the Middle Ages. If even FAIR admits that the Masons did not get the signs and tokens (or any of the many other things that the LDS temple ceremony borrowed from the Masons) from the early church that existed in Solomon’s time, then why should any of us argue with that?

There are some LDS that acknowledge that the Masons did not get their ceremony from Solomon’s time and also admit that much of the LDS temple ceremony comes from Masonry. How do they explain this? One such individual told me that God inspired the Masons. Since the light of Christ is available to all men, God may have inspired the Masons to incorporate sacred truths into their ceremony.

My Response: This is a very naive theory. Why on earth would God want to have another organization essentially mocking the sacred temple ceremony? Imagine if you were in charge of a kid’s group such as the Boy Scouts of America and they wanted to add a special method of identifying themselves to other members. Would you give them the sacred signs and tokens from the temple ceremony? Would you give them the five points of fellowship? Would you provide them with the same death penalties as was used in the pre-1990 temple ceremony? Of course you wouldn’t because you would not want the scouts to be trifling with sacred things. Heavenly Father certainly would not have inspired an organization like the Masons with intimate knowledge of the sacred temple ceremony.

Also, as secrecy is such an important part of the temple ceremony, does it make any sense that God would want other organizations to know those same secrets?

What does FARMS say? When I wrote FARMS (now called the Neal Maxwell Institute for religious Scholarship) and asked them about the similarities between the temple and the Mason’s rituals, they would only say “An in-depth study of this matter is being prepared.”

For more info on the problems with the LDS temple ceremony: http://www.mormonthink.com/templeweb....
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Time Limits On The Celestial Room
Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:39 AM
Original Author(s): Gazelam
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
While I never was specifically told "your fifteen minutes are up" I can remember being politely hurried out of the celestial room a few times, and it appears most of the posters on here have as well. I never gave the issue much thought as a Mormon, or as an ex-Mormon because little details like that seem to slip away, but after seeing it on Big Love and seeing the posts here discussing it, I think its an important issue. Really, why do workers try to hurry people out of the celestial room? I'm sure the reason TBMs would give is because the massive amount of people (as if) going through and wanting to allow others the chance to bask in God's presence, but I think there are too more convincing reason for this policy.

1-The celestial room is the only place where TBMs can theoretically discuss the temple experience, but even in here, it is pretty much taboo to speculate on what just happened. If people had the opportunity to actually talk about the temple and converse (its very hard to have a whispered conversation) maybe people would realize that no one really gets it. As is, the church can pretend that everyone is recieving these "revelations" and if you don't understand, its your problem. By hurrying people out, the danger of people discussing the temple is minimized.

2-The celestial room is theoretically the place on earth closest to God, and where angels and dead ancestors are purported to often cross into the realm of the living. If people linger too long, they will realize their prayers fall on the same deafness in the celestial room that they do in other places. No angels or dead ancestors are lurking around. Its just another place.

3-Conversely, patrons who linger with their thoughts will realize they have the same set of temptations in the celestial room as outside. They will realize its not some lead-lined vault to keep out the Satanic kryptonite that infects mortality...its just another cheap room with 5/8" drywall and metal studs. They'll realize they are still covetous, still vengeful, still infected with lust, etc. Its not demons causing their problems, they're just problems everyone has and everyone trys to deal with, and no amount of fake plastic flowers will make them go away.
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The Temple: spiritual incest
Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:41 AM
Original Author(s): Truman
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I think the reason Mormons are reacting so strongly to the HBO Big Love exposure of their temple ceremony is because deep down, they're ashamed.

I believe they have good reason to be.

The temple ceremony is an analog for incest - it is spiritual incest. I know that's a bold claim. Please read on.

What transpires in Mormon temples is secret because it could not be otherwise and be what it is. Just as incest is about secrecy, control and shame, so also is the temple.

Here's why I think it's incestuous - think in terms of metaphor:

The bigger, stronger, more intimidating, adult party in the relationship (God), imposes and act on the younger, weaker, more easily intimidated "child" figure in the relationship as a condition of acceptance - in this case, "Heavenly Father's" acceptance.

The act is initiated by the adult without the child's full, informed consent. In other words, the "child" figure never really knows what's going to happen until after it has already occurred. Afterward, there is no explanation, just shame and bewilderment.

Like other abusive systems, there's not much left to do after the act takes place except to take cues from those around you and pretend that everything is OK and as it should be. (parrot what other temple attendees say - "It was such a spiritual experience!")

The act is secret.

The act is enabled by others who don't have the courage or stature to confront the abuser.

The nakedness of the "child" figure is exposed. (initiatory washing and anointing)

There are dire threats for revealing the act. (pre-1990 penalties).

The "father" figure tells the "child" figure that the act is special, and therefore cannot be revealed. (sacred, not secret).

I think the reason why public revelations about what transpires in the temple arouses such strong feelings is because it compels Mormons to defend the indefensible. It compels them to face their shame.

And that takes courage.

I don't mean to trivialize incest with this comparison. However, when you look at the fact that people spend years, sometimes decades trying to come to grips with the damage that Mormonism has wrought in their lives; when you have support groups and websites like this one for recovery; when you have families destroyed over it, I think that the comparison is appropriate.
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From My Collection Of Strange, Funny, Weird, Odd Experiences In The Temples
Tuesday, Mar 17, 2009, at 08:42 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I have a whole collection of strange, funny, weird, odd experiences in the temple . It was the oddest place! I never knew what was going to happen next.

More strange experiences in the temple!

The temple is probably the most peculiar of all Mormon experiences and I have had several really strange, funny and horrible experiences while attending. They began the day I was married and never quit.

Just something simple like women stepping on the short train of my wedding gown while going from room to room, stopping me in my tracks, ruining my gown and nearly tearing it off me, and then losing track of my disabled mother were very unsettling and nerve racking the first time I attended the temple.

Then there was a big discussion about the shoes I brought. They had a teeny-tiny heal was accepted, rejected, accepted, rejected and finally accepted! They sent me back and forth finally letting me wear them.

Second time going to the temple, less than a year later.....

No one explained to me that my husband would not be taking me through the "veil" at the end of the session (with the five points of fellowship, which I found totally inappropriate) on subsequent visits. So, when I went to the temple the second time, I waited and waited and wouldn't leave my seat because I was waiting to be taken to my husband! I couldn't figure out what was going on with people getting up and going out in rows. What was I supposed to do? So, I stayed put.

A temple worker approached me an I explained my dilemma to her, she first tried to show me who was behind the veil and assured me it would be okay.

Well... naturally, I assumed it was going to be my husband, instead, it was a huge South Pacific man (Samoan?) standing there grinning.

That did it! I started to cry. I couldn't understand what had happened to my husband and who was that man??? She thought I was prejudiced and tried to assure me that he was okay, lost her patience and fussed at me about not going through the veil.

But, I refused to leave my seat! When I continued to refuse to up to the veil and do the five points of fellowship with that strange man, , another patron chastised me for "making a scene" stomped off in a huff. I sat there and cried.

Finally, when I wouldn't budge and was holding up the session, someone asked me for my husbands name and went and got him so he could do the "officiating" at the veil! That experience left me so shaken that I refused to go for a year. But, then I relented and went again!

It never occurred to anyone that it would be a good idea to let people know they would be acting out death oaths in the temple either. Another example of no full disclosure. I was only 21 years old at the time and would like to have known ahead of time about that little part of the ritual. The only thing that kept me from being terrorized was the HOPE that they were figurative, and I was in such a state of surprise and shock over the whole temple experience, I couldn't remember what it was I was not to divulge anyhow. :-)

SLC Temple:

On one visit to the Salt Lake City Temple, we were waiting in the chapel for the rest of our group of friends when I saw them in another area. I got up and left the chapel to tell them where we were. When I returned, a male temple worker stopped me by put his hands out completely blocking the isle and said I couldn't go through the session because I had left my place and the session was closed. He continued to stand there and block my passage. No amount of explaining that my husband was still there and I left for a minute would budge him from his position.

I saw my bewildered husband at the back of the room, and noticing another door, left and came in the back door and joined my husband and friends. Then I tried to get out without the temple worker seeing me. I was sure he was going to grab me and refuse to let me by again. But, I guess he forgot because he didn't even notice when I walked by him.

Another strange experience:

One of the most disturbing things happened as I came out of the washing and anointing area, clothed in that silly tunic wrapped shut over my long temple garments. I was in a new, unfamiliar new temple (I forget which one), when I had gotten turned around and lost my way. I walked past several temple workers standing at their posts and walked in the wrong direction and opened the door to the big waiting room with people in their street clothes.

Fortunately, one of the workers woke up as I opened the door and stopped me before I walked out there. I can still see the bewildered looks on the faces of that crowd!:-)

LA Temple:

Another time, while waiting for my party to leave, I was approached by a temple worker who, completely out of the blue, grasped my hand in a death grip after the session and asked if I had done the temple work for all of my family. When I mentioned that I did not know who my father was, he told me that I would never be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom, etc., etc., until I "forgave him."

Well, I tried to explain that I didn't even know my father and had nothing to forgive, however, this information fell on deaf ears and he proceeded with his mission of instructing me, all the while continuing to hold fast onto my hand with both of his. Fortunately, a male friend in our party got him to release his grip and got me away from him. That was just too weird! I never did figure out why he grabbed me, a total stranger and went on a tirade. Senile maybe?

MISC:

Remember the female workers with their little pockets full of emergency supplies? I got a chewable vitamin C one time when I was having an allergy attack.

This one I won't forget!

Sometimes a little humor lightens the mood of a dull, repetitive temple session.

Many years ago, I attended the temple with a group from our Ward. One of the ladies was a very small spry (probably about 80 yr old) widow, who had recently lost her large built 90+ year old husband

She arrived with us at the temple , carrying her matching suitcase with the temple garb. Remember those!?

When she opened it, she realized she had her deceased husbands suitcase! Laughingly, she remarked that she probably gave them the wrong suitcase for her husband's burial, and she wondered if he was buried in her temple clothes. (Not likely as those are different - but she probably didn't know that.)

Not to be deterred, she put on his one piece men's garments! She didn't have quite enough clothes in her size, so one of the matrons brought some for her.

The three of us women, who knew what happened could barely keep our faces straight through the session knowing she was wearing her deceased husbands, very large, men's garments, which she later remarked were more comfortable than her own!

I remember those sashes and especially how much trouble some of the older man had keeping them in the right place. When he pulled on it it went whosh... came completely out!

It was not uncommon for the whole temple session to be held up while someone helped the guy re-thread his string into his robe! :-) The solution was so simple. Sew them in! But NO .... that didn't happen!

And there are many more!

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Thoughts From The Draper Temple Dedication
Monday, Mar 23, 2009, at 08:49 AM
Original Author(s): Nate
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Two stories that just boil my blood, the first was about a man in the South Pacific who spent his entire life savings to go to the temple in New Zealand. What the hell? Why would Monson bring that story up right now in the middle of a near depression?

Second is even worse. Apparently apostle Nelson related a story once where some important Israeli architect was asked what would happen if the Temple in Jerusalem was rebuilt, this person’s response was “I don’t know go ask the Mormons”. Monson related this and the context was to show that the temple rituals are ancient. Is he dense? It is an obviously patronizing statement, and shows the contempt that this people and nation with a rich history and heritage feel for the Mormon view point that they have restored the Jewish religion to it’s ancient glory. (I tried to confirm this story but could not, however Monson told it in the temple dedication so he thinks its true.)

Everyone who wants to know can find out what happened in the two Jewish temples and in the Tabernacle, it is not a mystery, it might be sacred but it sure isn’t secret.
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Seven Cents
Monday, Mar 23, 2009, at 09:02 AM
Original Author(s): Anonymous
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Today I went to the dedication of the Draper temple, broadcast at my local stake center. Because I have very recently found out the true history of the church, even my bishop doesn't know that my testimony has completely collapsed. My spouse got signed tickets for our whole family to attend the dedication, no questions asked.

As I sat watching the films of the inside of the temple that played while we waited for it to start, I couldn't help noticing the amazing crystal chandelier that seemed to be a centerpiece of the Draper temple. It must have cost tens of thousands, if not a hundred thousand dollars. It's gorgeous. But my mind went back to a TV special I saw about how many children die in third world countries due to the lack of a proper tetnus shot. The cost: seven cents per vaccination. And then I got mad.

How could Mormons possibly think that the Savior they worship would be pleased? I think he would walk into his so-called house and say "Nice chandelier - thanks for buying it for me. How many of my children did you have to let die to have the money for it?" The Jesus of the bible healed the sick, fed the hungry and put people first. One of the speakers at the temple dedication even talked about the Savior healing the blind, not even seeing the irony of the fact that if the good people of Draper had been willing to drive a few more miles to the Jordan River Temple, the church could have had the money to heal a few blind people themselves.

Priorities, people.

Finally, just a note. Two of the speakers stressed heavily how we are in the last days and the only peace that will soon be available, will be found in the temples. Fear tactics. And another claimed that anyone who came to the temple pure of heart will learn more about their Savior. Clever. If you don't learn about the Savior in our relatively Jesus-free Temple, it's your fault for not being pure of heart. What TBM would admit they hadn't felt anything now? The whole thing made me mad, from start to finish. I was one of the first to hit the door when it ended. My sweetheart gave me a kiss and thanked me for being willing to go with our family. I'm still trying to decompress, hours later.

Seven cents - GEEZ!
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The Temple : The Ultimate Prize And The Ultimate Trap
Tuesday, Mar 24, 2009, at 07:49 AM
Original Author(s): Leaving
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
From the moment they walk through the primary doors, the brainwashing begins: "I love to see the temple, I'm going there some day..." LDS children are raised to believe that going to the temple will be the ultimate spiritual experience.

The first time usually accompanies a mission call or a marriage so the young man or woman often is preoccupied with other things, so the oddity of the experience is lost until after covenants and promises are made.

I was told that I probably would not understand the endowment the first time, and that it might seem a little weird. It WAS weird, but I committed to going often in order to "receive further light and knowledge." Of course that knowledge never came and every time I slit my throat or disemboweled myself, I was uncomfortable.

By the time I was certain that the LDS temple was not the House of the Lord, I was married with one child and another on the way. I felt trapped. I tried to find my "testimony" again, but I knew too much.

Now I have to wait outside during family weddings, stay out of blessing circles, and know that some members of my family assume that I have committed some terrible sin.

Only a cult would hold something up as the ultimate prize and then use it to control everything from what underwear to wear to what activities are acceptable for Monday night to what kind of sex a married couple can have.
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If You Have Been Divorced You Can't Work In The Temple
Friday, Apr 24, 2009, at 07:58 AM
Original Author(s): Dan
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Not for five years after your divorce. Of course you can attend the temple (meaning they want your tithing), but you can not officiate or be a veil worker.

It seems strange that if you are worthy to get a temple recommend you are not worthy to work in the temple.

I have a distant friend who was divorced and just remarried six months ago to a widow. She officiates one day a week at the local temple, he says he goes through sesssions, but they won't let him work their with his wife until his five years are up.

The church continues to discriminate against divorced people. They will always be second class members, and not equal to other members.
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Shunning Is A Requirement
Wednesday, Jun 10, 2009, at 07:59 AM
Original Author(s): Forestpal
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
in order to earn a temple recommend and answer "no" to that tricky Question #7:
7. Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
I'm sure this includes people with tattoos, piercings, wear the wrong clothes, see R-rated movies, etc. It must be a very long list these days.

When I was a temple-going TBM, whenever I was asked that question, my mind would flash to my ex-Mormon cousins, and friends who are non-Mormon, Methodist, Lutheran, Catholic, atheist, etc. So many people I knew were "contrary" and in "opposition to" LDS teachings and practices! For a few minutes, I seriously considered hanging out with those people less! Glad I didn't act on it, because now these are the only friends I have.

What flashed through your mind when you were TBM, and answered Question #7?

Did you ever think of this question, and then cut off a relationships because of it? Did you ever shun someone who left the church? Did you ever not allow your children to play with someone who was "contrary"?
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My Friend Will Be Standing Outside The Temple On Saturday While Her Son Gets Married - It Makes No Sense
Friday, Jun 12, 2009, at 12:52 PM
Original Author(s): Celeste
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
The mormon church creates so much pain in peoples lives yet takes no responsability for it. It makes me incredibly angry.

My very good friend made a decision about a year ago to come out of the closet of lies to tell her family she has never believed in the church. In her 46 years there she had never had a testimony although she tried several times.

She is now feeling the pain and lonliness of that decision. In her honesty she has been made to feel as if she has done something wrong. Several mormons have commented to her that why is she so sad if she knew she was making the right decision. She has even had some suggest she go anyway since her temple recommend does not expire for another month. No one in the church gets her...why would she do this. Lieng to them would be more acceptable. There is no support from the church members. She will watch her husband, family and a few good family friends come out of the wedding. Fortunately she has sisters that are not members to be there with her.

As I watch her go through this I find myself riddled with emotions. Memories of 27 years ago when I was a young bride. My family were not members and I naively accepted the churches rules.I barely new my husband ...I was living the fairytale that he would take me to the House Of God and love me eternally forever. I painted a picture in my head of a Galliant Savior on a White Horse protecting me from the storm. My anger is intense....I sacrificed my family for a f..ing Lie. Memories of the temple haunt me. How vulnerable and controlled I felt at the washing and annointing. How alone I felt in my confusion and divided from my family and non mormon friends....yet I clung to the lie. The people that sat in the sealing room at my wedding are no longer in my life. My choice to leave makes awkward relations. Most of them were my stepfamily and my husbands family. There is no longer any common ground.

My husband my daughters and I left the church 5 years ago. I was fortunate to marry a perceptive man who finally came out to me and proclaimed his truth....yet I still struggle with the deception we both were drawn into and the emotional aftermath we are left to make sense of.
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Temples Are Business Centers For The Church
Friday, Jun 26, 2009, at 09:36 AM
Original Author(s): Peter_mary
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I have a Brother-in-law who is very strategically positioned in the church (and I have to leave it at that...sorry), who told me several years ago that Temples are essentially "business centers" for the church, and they build them very strategically these days to capitalize on that.

What he went on to explain was that in areas where members had to travel more than a couple of hours to get to a temple, tithing revenues are significantly less than in areas where members have regular access. The reason was simple: You are much more inclined to maintain a current temple recommend if it is likely that you will actually be attending the temple more than on your wedding day. And you are much more susceptible to messages of guilt and coercion when your Bishop can say, "Brother so-and-so, you DO realize what a blessing it is to have a temple right here in our fair city, don't you? The sacrifices made on your behalf, so that you can enjoy the benefits, are hardly ones you should want to waste. Now, if you'll go ahead and make that check out in the amount of..."

So while on the surface, it appears that the church is doing "a favor" to the saints of a city by "bringing them a temple," the truth is, in virtually every temple location in North America, it pays for itself in the first couple of years, and then it rakes in gravy forever after, all in increased tithing revenues generated from people who are now getting temple assignments on a monthly basis at church, instead of the once-a-decade bus trip to the temple six states away.

Temples are good business for the church.

On a related note, the same BIL noted about 15 years ago a real shift in emphasis in where and how missionaries were selected for assignment. For decades, the mindset was that you sent your best and brightest missionaries on foreign missions, because they had to learn a foreign language, and you had to trust them in situations in which they were not otherwise comfortable. The result? A whole bunch of converts in poor nations where the church not only didn't INCREASE revenues...it COST them money. Their demographic studies showed them that the VAST majority of their tithes and offerings came from North America, and so there was a shift, directing more and more of their best and brightest missionaries to state-side missions, and working ever harder to keep indigenous missionaries in their native land.

Again, it was a savvy business move, not a way to actually build God's kingdom on earth (although Gordon's kingdom didn't do too shabby...)
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False Advertising: The "Mirrors Of Eternity."
Thursday, Jul 16, 2009, at 08:56 AM
Original Author(s): Normarae
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I grew up hearing about the beautiful mirrors on each side of the sealing rooms in the temple and how you stand in front of them and you can see yourselves as a couple going on for all eternity. The picture that comes to mind is one that was in “The New Era” many moons ago (the early Seventies), not long after the beginning of that magazine. There was an issue they did on the temple and it was done as a “collector’s edition.” It was completely white on the front and back cover and had the words “The New Era” embossed on the front. The whole thing was about working to go to the temple and had lots of pictures of the beautiful rooms and lots of articles about how wonderful and beautiful temple marriages are.

I’d give ANYTHING if I could get my hands on that issue now. I remember one picture, I believe it was a drawing and not a photo. But it showed a bride and groom looking into the mirrors and the mirrors going on in both directions until the image of them in each mirror got smaller and smaller. But I DO remember the bride in a beautiful wedding dress and the groom in a dark suit. I thought it was the most beautiful picture I’d ever seen. I fantasized about my wedding for years, thinking about what it was going to look like to stand in front of those mirrors.

I was totally freaked after I went through for my endowment (pre-1990 ceremony). But everyone kept telling me that my wedding day would be wonderful and we wouldn’t have to go through any of that stuff. I mean, I don’t know if it’s different now, but back then you never heard anybody say anything about anything that went on in the temple (and there was no internet to get info). So I was grateful for any preparation I got. I knew I got to wear my wedding dress in the temple but that I’d have to wear the temple shoes, as would everyone else. That’s what I thought it was limited to–everyone (including the groom and I) just changing our SHOES.

I took my veil and whole wedding ensemble into the temple. I had NO CLUE that I’d have to put those hideous robes and fig leaf back on OVER my wedding dress and especially that the only reason I took my veil into the temple was to put on to wear outside for the pictures. When they told me I didn’t wear it but had to put that butt-ugly temple veil on, it was all I could do not to cry. My mother had bought me my own temple robes and had brought them and presented them to me in the bride's room (thinking it would be a very special moment). I think partly because I'd complained that the ones I rented when I got my endowments were ugly. But I didn't know we had to have them on the wedding day.

So then, I’m thinking we’re going to the ceiling room and the temple crone comes to take me off somewhere else while my mother leaves and goes to the sealing room. I knew my husband would take me through the veil, I just didn’t ask when it happened, so this was it. When I got on the other side of the veil and saw him in his getup–fig leaf, baker’s hat, robe and all I was in such shock. We held hands and walked into the sealing room and everything was kind of a blur after that. The sealer droned on and then had us stand up and look into the mirrors. I didn’t even want to look. I knew I’d been sold a bill of goods of what it would be like. It wasn’t going to be like that beautiful picture of a bride and groom going on forever. It was going to be us in our hideous costume going on forever. I gave it a quick glance and then looked down, again trying not to cry. I sat down and kept wondering why they’d put that picture in the special collector’s temple edition of the New Era. Why did they mess around with young girls’ dreams of their wedding day? Luckily, when we got out of there, we did have a fun reception. My mother had let me rent a room at a hotel and didn’t make me have it in the cultural hall. We had a great band and danced and I tired to wipe the wedding part of that day out of my mind.

So did anyone else go through this same kind of shock when they did the mirror thing or did the rest of y’all know that you’d be in your costume when that happened. If you knew, at what point were you told? Did any other females fantasize about that special “mirror moment” thinking you’d get to see yourself in your wedding dress when it happened? Always just wanted to know if it were only me.
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Elohim: Not Exactly What They Taught You In The Temple
Wednesday, Aug 19, 2009, at 07:46 AM
Original Author(s): Eric Davis
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
How many of you are familiar with a god named Elohim, who had a son named Jehovah, who was responsible for creating the earth? That's what I was taught for many years as a Mormon. But everything I knew was wrong.

Many modern languages have borrowed words from older languages. Such is the case with Hebrew, which borrowed many of its ideas from the much older Egyptian traditions.

The Hebrew word for God, "EL" is origanally Egyptian. It was the generic word for a star. Several of the stars in Egyptian astrology used the word El at the beginning. For example: El-Osiris was the star of the god Osiris. We recognize the star today as Sirius, the alpha star of the constellation Canis Major. Even the word constellation can trace its roots to Egypt. Stella which is the Latin word for star, is built upon the Egyptian EL, seen in the middle of the word.

The ancient Egyptian civilization survived for most of 5,000 years, a significant portion of which was during a time when writing was first being developed in the world. Traditions had been passed down orally, but most of them got confused with each other and as a result many of the deities became interchangeable parts.

The god Osiris was, in one tradition, was supreme ruler over all other gods (the equivalent of Zeus in Greek mythology). Occasionally the names of the gods or other objects were conjoined together to create a new entity that had posessed the characteristics of each of their parts. For example: Amun (sometimes spelled Amen), the sky god, combined with Ra (Re) the sun, to become Amun-Ra, "the light of the heavens". When Osiris was used in combination with other parts, often just the O at the beginning was used. for example: O-Amun was a name invoked at the end of Egyptian prayers, in hopes that the prayer would fly swiftly through the sky to reach the highest god, who would then be able to hear the prayer. (If you say Amen at the end of your prayer, you are literally invoking the name of an Egyptian myth.) Instead of saying El-Osiris, one could simply say El-O to refer to the star of Osiris.

In the Egyptian and Hebrew language the suffix "im" was added to a word to denote "many" of something. For example: angels were either a Cherub or a Seraph. If you had many of them they were Cherubim or Seraphim. Also, there were many gods of Baal (the Bull). They were the Baalim. The golden calf was one of the Baalim.

Osiris also ruled over many stars. The many stars that belonged to Osiris were, of course, the El-O-im. In Hebrew the El-O-im became a single word, Elohim, and the many stars became the first official gods of the Hebrew people. So when we read in Genesis, "let US make man in OUR own image," it makes a lot more sense if we understand that it was the many gods of the Elohim talking to each other.

Additionally, El (the stars) were one of the three most significant entities of the Egyptian pantheon. The other two were the Sun and the Moon. The Sun was, of course, the god Ra (pronounced: ray, as in the sun's rays). The moon was personified by the goddess Isis. As the Sun and Moon both chased each other around the sky, they both marked their path through a narrow belt in the sky known as the zodiac. The zodiac consists of 12 constellations (also known as houses), who are the devoted followers of the Ra and Isis. Ra, Isis, and their 12 followers, or groups of Els, together are Osiris's chosen race of gods. This grouping combines to form a single name, as well. The goddess, who receives special prominence in Egypt, comes first. In a conjoined name, one simply uses the first syllable, dropping the second "is" which is redundant anyway. The Sun follows next, as the prominent fixture in the sky. Finally the stars come last. And the name that is created: Is-Ra-El - Israel. Israel and his twelve houses, or tribes, become god's chosen race. Israel literally came out of Egypt, but not through the exodus of Moses. And the twelve tribes are simply the signs of the zodiac.

As a footnote on the star known as El-Osiris: Osiris was killed by the evil Seth (pronounced: Set), and carried away into the underworld. Later Osiris's son, Horus, descended into the underworld and battled Set (hence: Sun-set). As a result, Horus was victorious and was able to raise El-Osiris from the dead. El-Osiris, translated into Hebrew is El-Azarus. Drop the E at the beginning and you get the name Lazarus. Therefore: The son of god raised Lazarus from the dead.
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What Is An LDS Church Temple Marriage/Sealing? Hope This Answers Some Questions
Monday, Aug 24, 2009, at 07:44 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
After passing two interviews to get the temple recommend-- (see Temple Recommend Questions here: http://www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/...,) then going through the Endowment Ceremony either on the day of the marriage, or earlier.

Washing and Anointing ceremony (only done once for yourself) where the Holy Garment of the Priesthood (notice ladies, you wear the same garment of the Holy Priesthood!), is placed on you and covenanting to obey:

The Law of Obedience

The Law of Sacrifice

The Law of the Gospel

The Law of Chastity

The Law of Consecration --which is:(I am only including this particular one on this post as it has it directly applies to the marriage covenant.) Info on: Garments, each covenant here: http://www.lds4u.com/lesson5/templeco...

Then - and only then may you be married/sealed in the temple.

This is the Law of Consecration that proceeds the Marriage/wedding/sealing.

Officiator:

A couple will now come to the altar. We are instructed to give unto you the Law of Consecration as contained in the book of Doctrine and Covenants, in connection with the Law of the Gospel and the Law of Sacrifice which you have already received.

It is that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

All arise. Each of you bring your right arm to the square.

You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

Each of you bow your head and say "yes."

Then and only then, after completing the entire Endowment Ceremony, making all of the Covenants, you may be sealed in the marriage ceremony.

Here is the ceremony.

Sometimes, the officiator will allow an exchange of rings at the end of the ceremony, and a kiss. (I don't know the current policy on this practice. Maybe someone else does.)

Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] please join hands in the Patriarchal Grip or Sure Sign of the Nail.

Marriage Couple:

Joins hands in the "Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail."This token is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. No clothing should interfere with the contact of the forefinger upon the wrist.

Officiator: Brother ______, do you take Sister ______ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Groom: Yes.

Officiator: Sister ______ do you take brother ______ by the right hand and give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband, for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Bride: Yes.

Officiator: By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.

To make sure one understands exactly what the "New and Everlasting Covenant" is, see: DandC 132. In the temple it is just called the New and Everlasting Covenant, the words: Plurality of Wives is omitted.

To understand the background for the temple marriage/sealing ceremony:

REFERENCE for easy reading: http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

[INSERT: compare introduction to the 1969 edition of the Book of Mormon.

Here's the 1969 version:

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives.

-------The Prophet’s inquiry of the Lord--He is told to prepare himself to receive the new and everlasting covenant--Conditions of this law--The power of the Holy Priesthood instituted by the Lord must be operative in ordinances to be in effect beyond the grave-- Marriage by secular authority is of effect during mortality only--Though the form of marriage should make it appear to be for time and eternity, the ordinance is not valid beyond the grave unless solemnized by the authority of the Holy Priesthood as the Lord directs-- Marriage duly authorized for time and eternity to be attended by surpassing blessings--E ssentials for the attainment of the status of godhood -- The meaning of eternal lives--Plurality of wives acceptable only when commanded by the Lord--The sin of adultery--Commandment to Emma Smith, wife of the prophet. http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132

1981 edition:

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant;

7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth;

15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods;

21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives;

26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost;

28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages;

40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven;

48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation;

51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true;

58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

Did you catch it? Celestial Marriage is Plurality of Wives! The Mormon Church has never, ever stopped practicing their law that applies to polygamy or plurality of wives as that is what Celestial Marriage (The New and Everlasting Covenant) is!

Did you notice that the marriage sealing ceremony not only continues the practice of polygamy, and, because of the covenant of the Law of Consecration, married you to the church and it's commandments by covenant, not each other?

Investigators BEWARE:

Demand full disclosure for informed consent. You won't get it from the Mormon Church, so do your own research.

Know what you are doing, and what it really means!

I doubt most LDS couples recognize and understand that they married in to plurality of wives when they were sealed in the temple.
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Deep Things Learned In The Temple (The World's Biggest Placebo)
Wednesday, Jul 28, 2010, at 10:48 AM
Original Author(s): A Three Hour Bore
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
So how is the temple endownment? Uplifting, sacred, deep...oh wait, I can say how I really feel here? Okay.

In a word...Placebo.

I was a TBM convert jonesing hard to go to the temple and learn whatever great, esoteric, deep knowledge was available there that I was missing out on. I already knew the doctrine well and was about to serve a mission.

So here are the new, revelatory mysteries--the very PINNACLE of holy learning--that were unfolded to my view in the Lord's house:
  • The creation pretty much went exactly like the POGP said. Yawn. Note to self: take nap during this repetitive part of the show in the future
  • Insight into the bureaucracy of heaven. Lots of unneccessary meetings between God and Jesus to cover what to tell Michael, or PJandJ, verbatim in a subsequent meeting. Then the work finally gets done. Then they report. Then Jesus reports. Repeat ad nauseum. Apparently, callings are no more fun or efficient in heaven than in my stake center.
  • Eden/Earth is patterned after the old world where we used to live. Cool to know, okay.
  • Satan has priesthoods? Where do they come from? What are they called? Never heard a word about it again. It's like saying "I just made out with Heidi Klum" and then sharing no juicy details.
  • Wait? Women covenant to hearken unto the counsel of their husband, as he hearkens to the counsel of the Lord. So are we talking 1) "as" as in while/during/when/if? Or 2) "as" as in "like/similar to." Never explained. I guess women should just assume it's #2 unless they have problems with it (stupid feminist influence, or maybe just those who are too intellectual, or prideful w/ testimony problems) in which case we explain that it MUST be #1 because #2 makes no sense. Thus, every woman hears what she wants to hear and the church is spared from having to be accountable for explaining itself.
  • Arbitrary signs, tokens, and names. These will make sense someday. Boy oh boy, I wish I could get an apostle or GA in the celestial room and pick their brain to see how it all makes sense somehow..............[Truth: nobody has a damn clue, and there is no answer. It's a rorshach test]. Sadly, I had to check out some books on the Masons in order to find out the symbolism behind my own retarded church's rituals...how sad is that?
  • If I don't live up to EVERY covenant made in this temple, this day...I will be...in Michael Ballam's power. Wow. Even lightmindedness? Loud laughter? Pretty strong. I thought the temple was supposed to fortify and protect you from Satan. It seems like now he has more power over me for doing relatively minor transgressions.
  • Avoid any and all unholy and impure practices. Sounds easy enough...[never occurs to me in a million years that for a wife to slob a husband's knob is officially an unholy and impure practice, according to the top brass's official letterhead]. Oh, but wait, bishops don't ask members about that anymore. So it must be okay now? Or is it still unholy and impure, just not regulated as much as Starbucks? Let's just err on the safe side, honey, and not do it, since the church has made finding out its own teachings a nebulous and fruitless endeavor
  • The covenants are nothing new, just more frank and candid about how the COJCOLDS owns your ass
  • Sexual RELATIONS are forbidden. That's fine, I'm not looking for a relationship.
  • Cool! I finally found out what those symbols on the garment mean! That was new.
  • This chanting is kind of weirding me out. It must be the natural man I hear inside me (ie, my identity, common sense, spider-sense, cult-sense, cognitive dissonance, the high-pitched sound of my last remaining shred of individuality and autonomy flatlining, in its death throes, maybe?).
  • Look at that fat guy struggling to get his clothes changed in time...
  • So endowed members really wear THIS when they are buried? Can I request a suit?
  • These cafeteria cookies are really, REALLY good
SUMMARY of THE DEEP MYSTERIES I LEARNED AT THE TEMPLE:
  1. 50% -- Stuff I already knew from being a regular member and reading the scriptures
  2. 25% -- A bunch of arbitrary stuff with no explanation other than that each of you will have to figure it out on your own by the power of Greyskull, but never compare notes with each other, so that everyone can become collectively ignorant and assume that what THEY think the symbolism means must be the true reality and that they ARE learning something each time.
  3. 25% -- The emperor's new clothes 2.0 -- Pretending this is uplifting, insightful, or really anything other than a bunch of people in a room trying to feel like they're accomplishing something.
Simplest explanation...it was taken from the Masons, arbitrarily changed around, doesn't explain itself in order to perpetuate the myth of mysteries of godliness, and is a hyped-up experience that everyone feels compelled to want and enjoy, and if it's a disappointment there must be something wrong with you. It's the world's biggest placebo. You might as well shake up a box of Scrabble and use creative interpretation to find meaningful lessons among the lettered tiles.
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Temple Session Interpretations
Tuesday, Oct 19, 2010, at 08:35 AM
Original Author(s): Boughxb
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Going to the temple after my mission was one of the most faith destroying events of my life. I tried like crazy to find an explanation for the video but I could find nothing from temple workers, from church contacts, or from friends on what the subjects might mean.

I asked one temple worker why women had to veil their faces and he just mumbled something about respect for the priesthood. Every question I asked from anyone receieved a similar response.

I remember when Satan looks right at the audience and threatens them that if they do not live up to the covenants they make in the temple that they will be in his power. I asked why Satan was talking to me in the temple and got nothing. I saw it as a not-so thinly veiled threat or fear tactic.

I remember when Satan responds to Peter's question "What is being taught?" with "The philosophies of men mingled with scripture." I thought to myself, is that what he is telling me is being taught in here? Is that what this temple experience is?

What are some of your experiences you had trying to make sense of the non-sensical in the temple?
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Veil Strike
Thursday, Oct 21, 2010, at 09:14 AM
Original Author(s): Evolution
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Ok so I accept that I personally won't really be able to make a difference as far as destroying the big parts of LDS inc that I hate. I know that as far as most of it goes I would mostly be "kicking against the pricks." But there are some things about the mormon church that I do think can be changed now. Maybe I'm delusional, maybe I'm naive or maybe I just have hope that change can happen.

Lets rewind to my first temple experience. I realize that my family was trying to make my first temple experience as pleasant as possible. My brothers even refrained from pulling the "watch out for the flaming hoops at the veil" joke or the even more notorious "don't drop the knife" joke. I was trying to have a good experience too. But when my mom and dad went up for the prayer circle thats when I really decided I did not like what I was experiencing. Up until that time I had been trying to keep a good face on. Sure it was different and sometimes awkward, no I wasn't impressed, but my seat was mostly comfortable so I didn't mind too bad. But when my parents went up to participate in the prayer circle, that is when it became wrong for me. They went up to make it a spiritual experience for me - well guess what, it wasn't. The thing that finally made my temple experience bad, and I've mentioned this before, but the thing that really bothered me about the temple was the dumb veils at the prayer circle! They callthis the true order of prayer??? Well why the heck does everything about the “only true and living” church have to be so sexist, racist, or homophobic? So my parents get up to participate in the prayer circle, and my mom and dad do the signs in preparation for the prayer and then the voice says that the sisters need to veil their faces for the prayer. What? Seriously? I tried searching my mind for reasons why this could be. I knew the scriptures pretty well, and I couldn’t come up with anything, but maybe I missed something. No, I thought, this was straight up sexism and needless to say I did not like the prayer at all.

The prayer ended, and my mom looked at me. She didn’t seem to mind that the church had just done something that needed some serious justification in my opinion. My stomach was not sitting well.

As a former veil worker I’ve searched for reasons to this what seems to me barbaric practice. I will admit that I did get this second hand from two veil workers that I worked with, and not from me asking the temple presidency themselves, but they are reliable guys and I believe them and I am going to try to find out from some other sources as well. The guys I talked to said that they heard from the temple presidency that the women wear veils because that is “just the way it is.” JUST THE WAY IT IS? Well screw that.

So how does it get fixed? They’ve changed their endowment before and they can change it again. Last time they changed it was to make it more comfortable for people (and probably to avoid lawsuits in the future.) This is something that would make it more comfortable for people. I think it is wrong that they are treating women like this. I know that it is a small injustice compared to all the unfair ways/pressures women in LDS inc have to conform into their society, but it is something that can possibly be changed.

What we need to do is say enough of this practice. No more of it. Give TBM a reason or else bag it and bag it quick. I personally have not left LDS inc yet, I am trying to find a good way out. But what better way out then going to the temple getting in the prayer circle and if you are a guy like me do all the signs, and then when they ask the sisters to veil their faces stand up for them and ask why? When they can’t give you a reason then say you don’t want to participate and leave the room. If you are girl then refuse to put on the veil, when they tell you to put it on ask for a reason. When they can’t give it to you then say you don’t want to participate and leave the room.

Maybe this is a dumb idea, but the veils have always bothered me, and I think the only way it gets changed is a veil strike or something like it. What do you all think? Is it ridiculous? A fantasy? I don’t know how many people there are on here who haven’t left yet, but those of us who haven’t might as well try to change something as we go.
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Secret Doctrines And Practices? Lying For The Lord
Monday, Nov 15, 2010, at 08:28 AM
Original Author(s): Redjacket
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Bruce R McConkie, lying for the Lord, once stated:
All of the doctrines and practices of the Church are taught publicly. There are no secret doctrines, no private practices, no course of conduct approved for a few only. The blessings of the gospel are for all men. Do not be deceived into believing that the General Authorities believe any secret doctrines or have any private ways of living. Everything that is taught and practiced in the Church is open to public inspection, or at least, where temple ordinances are concerned, to the inspection and knowledge of everyone who qualifies himself by personal righteousness to enter the house of the Lord.
This statement is historically and even now not true:

Historically

a) The practice of polygamy (polyandry, polygyny and bigamy) began as a secret doctrine and practice. It was believed by the General Authorities namely Joseph Smith and was a secret and private way of living. It was not taught and practiced in the Church openly and was not available to any woman or man who was "worthy" in the beginning.

Now

b) The Second Anointing is a ritual that is not taught or mentioned publicly unlike the other elements of the Temple ritual which at least mormons are aware of. It contains secret doctrines such as the proper meaning of having Calling and Election made sure, wives giving their husbands blessings and the fact that Jesus was married among others. It is a private way of living especially when you think about the fact that they and their families are guaranteed exaltation. It is also not available for anyone who is worthy to enter the TempleTm, it's an invite only club. They are also told not to mention the ordinance openly and not to tell anyone they have received it including family.

If they can get people to lie to their own families and it is kept extremely quiet within the Church, what else could they secretly believe and practice?

Here are some links with information on it:

This one is informative, gives examples of historical second anointings of Church leaders and explains where the idea of Jesus being married contained in JoD came from:

http://ldsendowment.org/secondanointi...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_a...

http://www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/...

Something that goes into some detail about the theological consequences of the ordinance is found here:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/second_anoi...

As Sulki added the most current account that is available online is found here and is really illuminating, definately worth reading:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon...

You aren't alone in never hearing about this before leaving the Church. I heard vague whispers about it on my mission and I remember being in complete shock that it even existed. Saying that I didn't realize about garments until just before I went to the Temple. With the internet these days everything is becoming much more widely available and all it takes is Google to find large amounts of information that was formerly hidden. We even get the CHoI before the priesthood leaders do.

Something not mentioned in any of the links but which you can learn from certain quotes is that not only the couple receiving their Second Anointing or Second Endowment are guaranteed Exaltation, but also their children.

The fact that someone can be a member their whole life and not be aware of this shows that it isn't ridiculous to believe that there are a number of things that are kept from the membership, that aren't considered "church doctrine" that are believed and practiced by the leadership.
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I Want To Clarify The "Apostate Group" Question Bishops Ask In Temple Recommend Interviews
Tuesday, Nov 16, 2010, at 07:55 AM
Original Author(s): Cheryl
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I was there when this happened and it was of concern to *my* parents and the "apostate" groups who met in our living room. My parents were affiliated with several fundamentalist polygamy groups at the time and we were housing several wives of a plyg prophet in trailers on our farm.

This was in the early 1950's under Prophet Seer and Revelator David O. McKay's rule. There was a state wide law enforcement effort to curtail polygamist activity in an attempt to protect underaged girls and abused polygamist wives. The pr was terrible for the church. Everyone was buzzing about it and there were nation wide articles and news releases condemming Utah for allowing plural marriage.

The church reaction was to claim they'd cooperate and to prove it they added this apostate question to the list for bishop's to ask faithful members.

The net result was that polygamists who wanted to stay active in the mainstream church decided to lie because being true to the gospel trumped admitting the truth to these local rubes who in fundie minds were less than honorable although they were better than non-members.

The faithful members after being asked this question felt more obliged to shun outsiders. Almost none of them knew why this question had been added and assumed it meant they should give a wide birth to apostates, inactives, and antis, outcasts and other worldly riff-raff. I doubt that even most bishops knew fully why the top leaders had decided to include the new question. And after all this time, I would bet that not one in a thousand members or leaders know the history of this interview insertion.

I think it's like masturbation and oral sex. If a bishop grew up and experienced interviews where bishops interpreted "chasity" to mean the exclusion of these practices, then he would follow that example when he was in the interviewer role.

So now I think almost all members and bishops assume that mormons ought to take special precautions when they're forced to deal with non-mormons. In other words, mormons feel they should shun anyone who doesn't comply with mormon expectations.
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The Temple Ceremonies: Symbolic, Literal, Figurative, Spiritual? Some Of My Experiences
Thursday, Dec 2, 2010, at 07:36 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Since discussing the temple ceremonies as a member was taboo, how did you experience them? I listed four possibilities, there are probably more.

As I was a young adult convert, and had some interest in theater, I understood the temple ceremonies as an interactive play, and symbolic, figurative, not literal in any sense. At least, that was my ---hope!

I had a sense of some spiritual,. meditative peace as it was a quiet place, excluded from the outside world. It was a kind of escape from the world especially as it was a two hour drive or more each way - with no kids,.no phone, etc.

I attended regularly, (probably did over 500 sessions over thirty years in eight or nine temples, one in Europe), as I believed, at the time, in the notion that these ordinances were necessary for the afterlife, and as such, I was doing a service to others.

Of course, I don't believe in those ideas anymore, but they were important to me at the time. That was then, this is now. :-)

It was often a place where the unexpected caught me off guard. I never knew what was going to happen next. Of course, like the rest of you, I was totally unprepared for the experience.

One of the first posts I wrote well over 10 years ago was titled: My strange, funny, weird, odd experiences in the temple.This is how I wrote about my experiences.

I have a whole collection of strange, funny, weird, odd experiences in the temple . It was the oddest place! I never knew what was going to happen next.

Strange experiences in the temple!

The temple is probably the most peculiar of all Mormon experiences and I have had several really strange, funny and horrible experiences while attending. They began the day I was married and never quit.

Just something simple like women stepping on the short train of my wedding gown while going from room to room, stopping me in my tracks, ruining my gown and nearly tearing it off me, and then losing track of my disabled mother were very unsettling and nerve racking the first time I attended the temple.

Then there was a big discussion about the shoes I brought. They had a teeny-tiny heal was accepted, rejected, accepted, rejected and finally accepted! They sent me back and forth finally letting me wear them.

Second time going to the temple, less than a year later.....

No one explained to me that my husband would not be taking me through the "veil" at the end of the session (with the five points of fellowship, which I found totally inappropriate) on subsequent visits. So, when I went to the temple the second time, I waited and waited and wouldn't leave my seat because I was waiting to be taken to my husband! I couldn't figure out what was going on with people getting up and going out in rows. What was I supposed to do? So, I stayed put.

A temple worker approached me an I explained my dilemma to her, she first tried to show me who was behind the veil and assured me it would be okay.

Well... naturally, I assumed it was going to be my husband, instead, it was a huge South Pacific man (Samoan?) standing there grinning.

That did it! I started to cry. I couldn't understand what had happened to my husband and----- who was that man??? She thought I was prejudiced and tried to assure me that he was okay, lost her patience and fussed at me about not going through the veil.

But, I refused to leave my seat! When I continued to refuse to up to the veil and do the five points of fellowship with that strange man, , another patron chastised me for "making a scene" stomped off in a huff. I sat there and cried.

Finally, when I wouldn't budge and was holding up the session, someone asked me for my husbands name and went and got him so he could do the "officiating" at the veil! That experience left me so shaken that I refused to go for a year. But, then I relented and went again!

It never occurred to anyone that it would be a good idea to let people know they would be acting out death oaths in the temple either. Another example of no full disclosure. I was only 21 years old at the time and would like to have known ahead of time about that little part of the ritual. The only thing that kept me from being terrorized was the HOPE that they were figurative, and I was in such a state of surprise and shock over the whole temple experience, I couldn't remember what it was I was not to divulge anyhow. :-)

SLC Temple:

On one visit to the Salt Lake City Temple, we were waiting in the chapel for the rest of our group of friends when I saw them in another area. I got up and left the chapel to tell them where we were. When I returned, a male temple worker stopped me by put his hands out completely blocking the isle and said I couldn't go through the session because I had left my place and the session was closed. He continued to stand there and block my passage. No amount of explaining that my husband was still there and I left for a minute would budge him from his position.

I saw my bewildered husband at the back of the room, and noticing another door, left and came in the back door and joined my husband and friends. Then I tried to get out without the temple worker seeing me. I was sure he was going to grab me and refuse to let me by again. But, I guess he forgot because he didn't even notice when I walked by him.

Another strange experience:

One of the most disturbing things happened as I came out of the washing and anointing area, clothed in that silly tunic wrapped shut over my long temple garments. I was in a new, unfamiliar new temple (I forget which one), when I had gotten turned around and lost my way. I walked past several temple workers standing at their posts and walked in the wrong direction and opened the door to the big waiting room with people in their street clothes.

Fortunately, one of the workers woke up as I opened the door and stopped me before I walked out there. I can still see the bewildered looks on the faces of that crowd!:-)

LA Temple:

Another time, while waiting for my party to leave, I was approached by a temple worker who, completely out of the blue, grasped my hand in a death grip after the session and asked if I had done the temple work for all of my family. When I mentioned that I did not know who my father was, he told me that I would never be able to enter the Celestial Kingdom, etc., etc., until I "forgave him."

Well, I tried to explain that I didn't even know my father and had nothing to forgive, however, this information fell on deaf ears and he proceeded with his mission of instructing me, all the while continuing to hold fast onto my hand with both of his. Fortunately, a male friend in our party got him to release his grip and got me away from him. That was just too weird! I never did figure out why he grabbed me, a total stranger and went on a tirade. Senile maybe?

MISC:

Remember the female workers with their little pockets full of emergency supplies? I got a chewable vitamin C one time when I was having an allergy attack.

This one I won't forget!

Sometimes a little humor lightens the mood of a dull, repetitive temple session.

Many years ago, I attended the temple with a group from our Ward. One of the ladies was a very small spry (probably about 80 yr old) widow, who had recently lost her large built 90+ year old husband

She arrived with us at the temple , carrying her matching suitcase with the temple garb. Remember those!?

When she opened it, she realized she had her deceased husbands suitcase!

Laughingly, she remarked that she probably gave them the wrong suitcase for her husband's burial, and she wondered if he was buried in her temple clothes. (Not likely as those are different - but she probably didn't know that.)

Not to be deterred, she put on his one piece men's garments! She didn't have quite enough clothes in her size, so one of the matrons brought some for her.

The three of us women, who knew what happened could barely keep our faces straight through the session knowing she was wearing her deceased husbands, very large, men's garments, which she later remarked were more comfortable than her own!

I remember those sashes and especially how much trouble some of the older man had keeping them in the right place. When he pulled on it it went whosh... came completely out!

It was not uncommon for the whole temple session to be held up while someone helped the guy re-thread his string into his robe! :-) The solution was so simple. Sew them in! But NO .... that didn't happen!

And there are many more!
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My History: Trying To Go Through The Temple
Thursday, Feb 3, 2011, at 07:50 AM
Original Author(s): Lochnessie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Going through the temple and taking out my endowment, as the saying goes, put the nail in the coffin for me. I sort of went through the motions for the next few years, but I was never fully active again.

I had always had questions growing up and always had problems with some of the teachings, priesthood anyone? I always prayed for my doubts to go away, convinced myself that the church was true and one day it would make sense. In my early 20s, I couldn't ignore the doubts and the teachings I didn't agree with anymore. I actually started researching the church to prove to myself the church was true, well you can all guess what happened. Still I wasn't quite ready to denounce it all, but I was one confused young woman.

While on winter break from college, I spoke with my home singles ward bishop about my doubts. He is a good person and I respected his opinion. The talk took many turns and it ended with him recommending I take a temple preparation class and go through the temple. This may sound odd, but it made sense in the whole area of our conversation.

The problem was, I attended BYU. I met with my bishop there and said that I wanted to go through the temple. He replied that was fine with him, but the stake president absolutely refuses to give recommends to women unless they are getting married or going on a mission. Why? The bishop explained that the SP thinks that the women will go out and fornicate and because they had their endowment they would be damned. I could tell the bishop thought this was a little ridiculous, but he also made it clear the SP would not let me in the temple.

Now this pissed me off! A immature teenager just out of high school can go through the temple because of marriage, but I can't. I'm not good enough because I'm not going on a mission. I'm going to go have sex now? This was just reinforcing my doubts about the church!

Moved apartments-new ward. Went to the new bishop. I was about to graduate now and this bishop thought it was a great idea because going through the temple would help me have some kind of protection when I was out in the world without the priesthood. Yeah. But this bishop wanted me to go do baptisms for the dead a few times as a way to ease into the temple. I personally didn't see the connection, but I did it. By this time however, I was sick of the whole process and I dropped the whole thing. It just didn't seem worth the effort.

I did eventualy go through when I got married. Guess now that I had a man it was okay, hey BYU SP? I will share this another post due to length, but once I went through, I was pretty much done with the church. The complete opposite of what my home ward bishop hoped for.

You are so brainwashed to think that it is this great thing. Everyone is so happy for you. Makes no sense. No sense.
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Going To The Temple
Thursday, Mar 10, 2011, at 07:58 AM
Original Author(s): Jod3:360
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
When I was 10 or 11 I walked into the kitchen and my mom was cutting up pieces of embroidered looking cloth and putting them in a tin can. Mom, what are you doing? She explained that they were pieces of the garments and that you could not discuss what they were for or you would die of disembowelment. Growing up on a farm, I knew exactly what that meant, and I could picture people in our area who would probably do that for me, including my own Grandfather.

When I was preparing to go to the temple, I mentioned this to my Stake President- he sorta chuckled and said No God won't do that, but the members might. He said it in such a way that I interpreted it as a joke...except my mom was dead serious, and like he said, "...but the members might."

In preparation, although I had been through the probation and disfellowshipment phase of my repentance while coming back into the fold, I still confessed every possible misdeed that I could think of so that I would be sure that I was worthy to enter the house of the Lord.

When we went to the temple my parents were the witness couple who were at the front of the room at the altar and we would all follow as they were given the signs and tokens first. As the ceremony progressed (this was after the 1990 change) I was disturbed to watch my parents doing this, and at the prayer circle I was positively weirded out. I didn't really want to be in the circle but it was expected of me. They did it so naturally, and afterward in the Celestial room when I was able to talk to them face to face, I was scared. They had become something strange and possibly sinister standing there in their robes and looking not joyous, but stern and expectant as they asked me if this wasn't just the most wonderful experience.

The thing that kept running through my mind was a short story I read in High School about a boy who at midnight heard strange noises coming from downstairs and so as he crept to the hallway and peered over the railing to the Living Room he saw his parents and others dressed in strange clothes with a bald man in red robes and a wreath of roses on his head reading from a large and awful looking book.

This was my first time in the temple. I did not feel holy, I did not feel joy, I did not feel the presence of what I expected God to be like. I was afraid.

Thankfully, taking my wife and my children to the Sealing Room was a far more pleasant experience. It was one that I will always treasure.

A few years later a new member went to the temple for his first time and resigned from the church shortly thereafter. It turns out that he was a Freemason, and he said that we had stolen the ceremony.

That made perfect sense. My BornAgainst Co-worker had showed me numerous anti Masonic websites and it was then that I realized that I had Masonic markings on my garments.

Although I was fully into the church and had callings that made me feel important, I could never dismiss the new revelation that Mormons are really just overglorified Masons. And everyone knows that Masons are evil. Right?

Nevertheless, I would attend the temple as often as possible and got as much family file work done as we could, but no mastter how many times we went, I never did shake the feeling that something was not right, despite it being the most holy place on earth.
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Atlanta Temple Tour - Return And Report
Tuesday, Apr 12, 2011, at 07:28 AM
Original Author(s): Dk
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Last Saturday I went to the Atlanta Temple open house, and before going I started a thread about what I should expect/do. I was advised to basically not be a jerk and ask provocative questions. Sorry for the length; I broke it down into pieces so you can skip ahead to parts that might be more interesting.

I got there about half hour before my appointment, and decided to use this time to change into my "just-in-case" skirt I had with me. People, of all ages, came very well dressed and ready. I was the only woman there not wearing a skirt, and I changed in order to not feel out of place and to get the full experience. What I hadn't taken into consideration though was that wearing a skirt reveals a tattoo on my leg... well there wasn't much I could do about that at this point. I really don't think anyone noticed it or cared.

I was told to wait in the church for my tour time, however they had an open slot in one of the earlier tours and I decided to take it. This would be a good time to mention I'm not white and delightsome, and so the mishie leading me to the pre-video room asked me "What is your native language? Do you require the tour in anything other than English?" My native language is indeed not English but I didn't mention this because I wanted the English tour. I told him this in a rather bad tone because it seemed like such a rude question, then he left me in the pre-video room. I don't think I made a good impression on him ;)

The pre-video was a very "milky" view of temples and the history of LDS in Georgia. People commented on what was going on, naming the people speaking, the different temples being shown, but they didn't get emotional as I was expecting. Thanks to this board I knew who the people in the video were, and I felt proud of myself :) I only really remember Mr. Holland saying "If I can't be there without my wife and family, it would not be heaven." Our tour guide picked it up from there and walked us to the temple itself.

While we waited for our turn to go in the guide showed us his recommend and mentioned its significance; it was my first time ever seeing one IRL. There were people at the entrance waiting to put plastic booties on our feet. When we first walked in a family in our group group-hugged, which I found endearing yet odd at the same time. The first stop was the recommend desk. The waiting room to the right of it was not mentioned at all.

Next stop was the sisters' dressing room, just a regular locker room. Then we had to walk down the hall to one of the veil rooms (every room in the temple was permanently labeled at the door, except this one!) On the way there we passed two small sealing rooms; upon seeing them two young girls got VERY excited and had an OMG! look on their faces. Not much was explained other than "it's an instruction room"; of course, no mention whatsoever about the veil, which was covered in a gold curtain.

The next room was the actual video room, with a forest scene mural. Again not much was explained other than "we watch a presentation about eternity". I could see the guide trying to think of the right words to say without revealing too much. Then we went to the chapel; someone in the group figured out that we went through it backwards but was not harassed for "knowing too much", only told that he was right.

The next stop was the celestial room. The guide explained what this was before we went in. I have to admit my jaw almost dropped when I saw how bright and opulent it was. As I saw described in one of the archived posts here, it was "white and whiter", and same goes for the sealing rooms. The chandelier was the biggest one I'd ever seen; I never understood before how a single chandelier could be $5 mil but now I do, and I agree that all the money put into this would have been better used helping out people. I think our guide said a prayer while in the celestial room, then led us out in a "come here" gesture. He wouldn't even speak in there.

While the guide led us out towards the baptismal font in the back of the temple, we got to see the other ordinance rooms; these were already labeled but not part of the tour. This next part was explained in the most detail since it's already public knowledge; the meaning of the 12 oxen (and we had all 12, not 6 and a mirror), the significance of baptism for the dead, etc. I noticed there was a separate entrance for the font area, and separate dressing rooms, I guess so the teens going there won't get the wrong idea about what goes on in the "other" part of the temple.

The last stop was what I like to call the Mega Sealing Room. It was big enough to fit 50 guests, and other people in the group remarked it was "about as big as the biggest ones I've seen in Utah" which I assumed meant it was a much bigger size than normal. I tried to see myself into eternity but it didn't work for me :( The guide mentioned that this is where people get married and families get sealed for eternity, but not the mirror thing, then ended the tour with a personal remark about what being sealed for eternity meant to him. We were let out through a side door into the hospitality tent.

I thought overall it was a very good experience, well worth the few years I had to wait and all the curiosity I had built up from reading sites like this one ;)

The bad thing about it is, of course, that the real purpose of the temple was not mentioned, nor was the real process of being eligible to get in (pay your tithing!), the family heartbreak that results when loved ones can't go see your wedding, why the ceremony is so secret... and worst of all that all the expense that has gone into this building could have gone into helping out the less fortunate, especially given the situations going on right now. I can only describe parts of the temple as "opulent" and way over the top; not tacky, but you could see that expensive materials were used
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Blood Oaths And Death Oaths - Do You Know What You Have Done?
Monday, May 16, 2011, at 08:04 AM
Original Author(s): Roflmao
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
My last straw was the Temple Death Oaths in 1980, DC Temple.

No one warned me, no one gave me ANY clue I would be doing such macabre, and powerful rituals.

No one said one word about the chaotic feelings and confusion my mind and soul would endure.

I was very young.

Later I learned that...

Blood Oaths are common in Satanic Rituals:

Blood Oaths are common in Prison Gangs:

Black Guerrilla Family (BGF)

Aryan Terror Brigade (ATB)

Nuestra Familia

and many others

While blood oaths are common, like shedding some blood in a cup. DEATH OATHS are only for the most HARD CORE and EVIL organizations.

Many gangs are "blood in and blood out" meaning, you take a beating, or shed blood get in, ie: kill or injure someone. Then take a bloody beating, or your own death, to get out.

Some people do blood oaths in more elegant ways, I have read about people mixing their blood in wine and sharing it, even in marriage rituals.

TBMs fight tooth and nail, often lying, to hide the Death and Blood Oath history, but I myself took those oaths, and broke them. I know the truth, and that they lie, it cannot be from a benevolent creator "god".

The Blood Oaths are not, were not, and cannot ever be valid if TSSC will not enforce them. IE: Admit they ever required them, or used Danites to enforce them, or pressured you into them.

There is not a single case of "blood oath" that I consider uplifting, or of family values.

Saying we don't do:

Blood oaths

Ritual sacrifice

Child burning

Does not excuse it.

It's like, "Yeah, we used to be Satanic, but not now."

Is it just me, or is that kind of weak? Duh!

Some of my family is still in the cult. I am so angry at their behavior toward me, and lies about me, that I don't care they are still rotting in a cult.

My family is healthy, prosperous, and out!!!

This is one post I have had in me for a while, and I don't know if I am glad it's out or not, but many of you have wise and insightful things to say, and I am interested so I posted.
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Does Anybody Remember The "Five Points Of Fellowship Through The Veil"?
Wednesday, Sep 28, 2011, at 08:38 AM
Original Author(s): Deconverted2010
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
There was a kind of mystery about the temple and because I was not 'allowed' to go due to inactive husband I used to pay close attention whenever someone said something about the temple.

One day in sacrament meeting there was an announcement for all endowed members to meet in the cultural hall to fill in a survey. I was dying to be in the meeting and read the survey. I wanted to know.

After the following GC there were people bearing their testimonies that the temple was so special that people should go again and it was much better, blah blah blah.

Then it was turn to go. I did not experience the five points of fellowship but was very very uncomfortable with the washng and annointment. I kept closing my eyes and praying to understand, to receive revelation or confirmation. I went through the endownment and even though it was foreign to me, I kept trying to understand and to feel that special je ne se qua that people spoke of. At the end I thought we all looked like old testament people and I was cool with that. A sister came to me and said "it wasn't what you expected, is it? you need to come often to understand"

A few years later a friend who is about my age and I went to the temple together, we went a few times together. One day he said, isn't it much better after the changes? I looked at him and said what changes, he tried to cover up and I said I knew there were changes but would he tell me what they were. No, he couldn't. He thought that I had been to the temple before the changes and apologized.

I read about temple changes years after thanks to Richard Packman's writings and I thought, wow, it was already so uncomfortable 'hugging' a stranger through the veil without the five points. I can imagine how ackward that was. I do remember the open poncho and more standing up and sitting down.

Attendance is still very low, at least on my neck of the wood, what will they change next?
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How Much Does It Cost To Build A Temple? What Is The Price Tag For The Temples Being Built?
Thursday, Nov 17, 2011, at 07:43 AM
Original Author(s): Rt
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I've done some studying into this subject. It is my belief that nowadays, temples are a way to project growth to the outside world and, more importantly, to the membership.

If you analyze the GC-talks of Mr. McTemple himself, even Gordon B. Hinckley, you will find that he often treated the number of temples being built as indicative of church growth.

As far as money is concerned, I think you will find that it is largely a self-financing enterprise.

First of all, look at a world map of temples and you'll find that the bulk of them is built in areas where (number of members) x (household income) = high. Bringing the temple to the people my ass, it's about bringing the tithing to the COB. There is a statistically significant correlation between the incidence of temples and (number of members) x (household income). Regression analysis supports a causal relationship.

Second, when a temple is announced, many people will get excited and will want to obtain a temple recommend, even if they previously didn't used to have one. That means extra tithing revenue for about a year (running up to, and a few months after the dedication). I have personally witnessed this phenomenon when a McTemple was announced in our area.

Third, the quality of the workmanship and materials of temples is relatively high. Combine that with rather low and "civilized" usage of temples, and wear and tear, and thus materials maintenance, will be minimal. The fact that most temples are closed most of the time is actually a good thing from this perspective and the Hinckster said as much (although he said the buildings would be empty because they would be built in areas with few and poor members, which obviously was a lie).

And finally, regular maintenance is free because the church uses slave er..., volunteer labour for that. And to make the scheme even more despicable, members have to pay for the privilege to clean the sacred privvy because you have to hold a temple recommend to participate in the cleaning.

Put some pretty lights on it at night and the PR-scheme is complete.
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If You Were Sealed In An LDS Temple, Did You Know You Married Into The New And Everlasting Covenant Of Marriage Which Is Plurality Of Wives?
Monday, Mar 19, 2012, at 08:01 AM
Original Author(s): Susieq#1
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
If you were sealed in an LDS Temple, did you know you married into The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage which is plurality of wives?

Celestial Marriage = New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage which is Plurality of Wives, which is the basis for marriage for eternity and entrance into the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom according to their doctrine.

New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage is Plurality of Wives/ Celestial Marriage - This is the covenant that is practiced in the Temples everywhere in the world. Anyone who marries in the temple marries into this covenant of plurality of wives or Celestial Marriage.

DOCTRINAL REFERENCE:

Intro to Doctrine and Covenants 132 - [1 through 20 explain and define The New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage or Plurality of Wives.]

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives.

HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods;

21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost;

28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven;

48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

REFERENCE for complete DandC 132 here: http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132

Another Reference: Eternal Marriage Chapter 38 Lesson from Gospel Principles (Manual used for Sunday School class and others)

"In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

"And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,...

A short section of the dialog from the temple marriage/sealing ceremony:

Officiator: Brother ______, [naming groom] and Sister ______, [naming bride] please join hands in the Patriarchal Grip or Sure Sign of the Nail.

Marriage Couple: Joins hands in the "Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail."This token is given by clasping the right hands, interlocking the little fingers and placing the tip of the forefinger upon the center of the wrist. No clothing should interfere with the contact of the forefinger upon the wrist.

Officiator: Brother ______, do you take Sister ______ by the right hand and receive her unto yourself to be your lawful and wedded wife for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites, and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Groom: Yes.

Officiator: Sister ______ do you take brother ______ by the right hand and give yourself to him to be his lawful and wedded wife, and for him to be your lawful and wedded husband, for time and all eternity, with a covenant and promise that you will observe and keep all the laws, rites and ordinances pertaining to this Holy Order of Matrimony in the New and Everlasting Covenant, and this you do in the presence of God, angels, and these witnesses of your own free will and choice?

Bride: Yes.

Officiator: By virtue of the Holy Priesthood and the authority vested in me, I pronounce you ______, and ______, legally and lawfully husband and wife for time and all eternity, and I seal upon you the blessings of the holy resurrection with power to come forth in the morning of the first resurrection clothed in glory, immortality and eternal lives, and I seal upon you the blessings of kingdoms, thrones, principalities, powers, dominions and exaltations, with all the blessings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and say unto you: be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth that you may have joy and rejoicing in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

All these blessings, together with all the blessings appertaining unto the New and Everlasting Covenant, I seal upon you by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, through your faithfulness, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen.



Addendum: I was married in the Logan Temple in Aug of 1962. At no time, prior to that event did I know anything about the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage or plurality of wives or Celestial Marriage, nor that it was the requirement for the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom. I maintain that many who were married in the temple don't know the full meaning in their doctrine either.

DISCLAIMER: I do not promote, believe, or support these beliefs. This is for information only.
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How Constitutional Was The Mormon Secret Temple "Oath Of Vengeance"?
Wednesday, Apr 11, 2012, at 09:32 AM
Original Author(s): Uncle Dale
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Just about as constitutional as were the secret Endowment House oaths, on avenging the blood of Joe and Hyrum Smith upon the people of Illinois.

"Long shall his blood which was shed by assassins..."

Just about as constitutional as the First Presidency's Message of July 4, 1838, delivered at Far West.

Just about as constitutional as the Church's setting David Whitmer apart and ordaining him Secretary of War.

Just about as constitutional as Joe organizing an armed para-military expedition, and crossing state lines, to threaten violence upon the Gentiles of Jackson and Clay counties, Missouri, in the summer of 1834.

Just about as constitutional as Brigham Young declaring martial law in Utah Territory in 1857, and forbidding the passage of outsiders (U.S. troops, the Fanchers, etc.) through his domain.

Just about as constitutional as the Quorum of Fifty appointing secret USA ambassadors to foreign countries.

Just about as constitutional as Brigham running appointed federal judges out of Utah Territory prior to 1858.

Need I continue?
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The Naked Touchings In The Temple
Friday, Apr 20, 2012, at 02:17 PM
Original Author(s): Desert_vulture
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I remember getting my initiatory in the Provo temple the day before I went on my mission. Once I entered the temple, I was separated from my parents, and I was told to go put on a "shield" which was basically a white sheet draped over my head like a poncho. I asked the attendant if I understood right, I was supposed to take off all of my clothes? "Yes" I was told, and "put on the shield to hide your nakedness." Major cog dis set in.

This was done in 1980, and it was my first big clue that something was wrong with the church of my youth. I was stunned beyond belief. When I went into the cubicle, wearing only a "shield" a small little old man pronounced "blessings" in rapid fire succession while simultaneously touching my naked body with oil in various places. I honestly don't remember exactly where or what he touched, only that he reached inside the open side panels of the "shield" that really wasn't much of a shield, and touched me without my permission. It was a very intrusive act. It left me bewildered, shocked, and stunned. I thought "Now I know why they call us a cult."

That was many years ago. From what I understand, since about 2005 they have changed the initiatories allowing people to wear their garments under the shield, and eliminating the naked touchings that once occurred.

I imagine that the naked touchings of women in the initiatories were once performed by men, back in the day, since it is a priesthood ordinance. I can only imagine the feelings of disgust and abuse as those touchings occured. I'm sure it became a sore issue with the women temple patrons, so much so that the officiators became women. I never understood how a women was able to officiate one of the main temple ordinances without holding the priesthood. It never made sense to me, even as a member. I imagine that originally men officiated in the naked touchings of women in the initiatory, and that at some moment in history, men were replaced by women due to the obviously sensitive nature of the nudity (under a "shield" of course, with the large flaps open on the sides).

My question is: Does anyone know when men were replaced by women as officiators in the naked touchings in the temple, errrr initiatories? And if so, what were the circumstances? Did they receive a revelation from God that allowed women to officiate in a holy priesthood ordinance without the priesthood? How?

The initiatories were always so creepy to me, I never once repeated the experience I had in the Provo temple the day before my mission. Never once. Bastards..
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I Hated "Getting My Endowment"
Friday, Apr 20, 2012, at 02:21 PM
Original Author(s): Celestial Wedgie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I was confused and hurt, feeling betrayed and sacrificed by my own parents. How on earth could they think I would like that? Surely they knew me better than that! It felt like they had passed me off to my new owner.

I remember the old man with bad breath, being told my secret name, and thinking, "That's so stupid." I got creeped out when asked to put on the shield, but I kept hoping that the ceremony itself would have a humane limit to it. When he mentioned my loins, I bristled with anger and dread. I wanted to grab his feeble throat and throw him to the ground. I had no idea what to do, but I knew that it was messed up for some old man to dab oil on my genitals. I was surprised, relieved, and scornful when my "loins" turned out to be my lower back. At the same time I knew: I had just remained immobile, frozen and letting him do whatever the hell was going to be done. My guts were screaming, "This is wrong! This is horribly wrong!" But I just sat there, passive, compliant. Obedient.

That was the single most destructive experience in regard to my faltering belief in the church. All set for the MTC and a foreign mission!

I find it ironic that Mormonism's most sacred rituals had the most deleterious effect on my faith. That day, before ever leaving the temple grounds, I was convinced that my church--my pioneer heritage--was a raw and manipulative soul-scarring scam. I didn't just have problems with the church: now I had begun to hate it. No "anti-Mormon" propoganda needed. Just follow the prophet.

That night I brimmed with self-doubt, bitterness, turmoil, and despair. I was mostly angry and disappointed in myself for submitting to something that I knew to be wrong. Previously I had taken some college-level psychology classes, and that night I recalled the Milgram experiments, people willingly doing immoral things, doing them just because someone in authority told them to do it. When I first heard of the Milgram studies I fancied myself to be of higher moral stuff than the subjects he tested. In fact, sometimes I flirted with an idea that my difficulty developing a testimony was because I was of stronger moral fiber. The temple experience crushed that comforting illusion. Instead, that night I realized that I was a slave of the church: I had just promised my soul, life, money, and body--I stood there expecting a total stranger "anoint" my genitalia--and now I was bound for a mission to infect others with the same ceremonies.

I never really had a testimony of the church, but I tried as much as I could to believe in it. I really tried, convinced that I was the one who was at fault for not seeing what seemed obvious to everyone around me. I was honest, too, with my bishop and stake president, telling them where my beliefs were. That was good enough, they assured me.

It's painful but interesting to look back and realize that the temple experience forcibly stripped me of two false beliefs: (1) that the Mormon church comprised beautiful truths and (2) I was somehow above others. I lost all residual faith in Mormonism at the same time that I lost all faith in myself. I had hated myself for years, but at least I was doing what I had been told. Now the painful insight was dawning on me that I was only another manipulated coward. My church was a vile cult and I was just one more victim, a defeated, mission-bound dupe.

That night after the endowment that I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt: I had lost.
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Hearing My Temple Name Started My Journey Out
Tuesday, Jul 3, 2012, at 08:06 AM
Original Author(s): Lochnessie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
The session I went through there were two of us women folk taking out our endowment. I think that’s the correct terminology, but it has been a while. First things first: washing and anointing. So there the other girl and I are in some side room with cubicles on one side and dressing stalls with curtains on them instead of stall doors. The other girl was picked to go first. I was relieved. So I was taken to a dressing stall to sit and wait my turn and the other girl was taken into one of the cubicles on the other side of the room with the elderly women temple workers.

So there I was sitting on a tiny bench with my shield on. It was long and covered everything, but it was still strange. I had my unopened packet of garments there on the bench waiting. I was told I would put them on after my washing and anointing. This actually freaked me out more than being naked under a big white poncho. I do not wear new underwear unless I have washed it first. Ever.

While I was thinking about the unwashed underwear I was going to have to put on and feeling sick to my stomach about that, I realized I could actually hear the ceremony going on a few stalls down with the other girl. The curtained stalls did not block the sound well. I heard the girl’s “new name.” I felt guilty for listening in, but happy I got to hear what was going on before I went through it myself. Eventually one the temple workers walked the few steps to my stall to get me and I followed her into another curtained off stall. I then went through the ceremony with the elderly temple workers. I got my new name. IT WAS THE SAME NAME AS THE OTHER GIRL!!!

Yes, of course now I know that it is the same name for everyone who goes through on the same day. But I didn’t know that then. I had been taught that our temple name was special and it is what we will be known as through the temple and afterlife. Silly me, I thought that the name would come from inspiration and actually be MY name, maybe even my name from the pre- existence. With all the weirdness that continued through the session and the veil and my offense at having to cover my face just because I was a woman I kept repeating to myself, “It was the same name, why?” What the heck is so special about any of this?

And why can my husband know my name, but I can never ever know his?

I credit the temple with starting to end the cog-dis I had been having for several years. So instead of the temple being the wonderful, spiritual, enlightening place it’s supposed to be, it ended up being quite the anti-mormon experience and it all began with my “temple name”
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As A Way Of Closing The Mormon Chapter Of My Life
Friday, Jul 13, 2012, at 06:40 AM
Original Author(s): Toto
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I took a weekend trip to Manti, Utah so I could say goodbye to the temple I thought was the most beautiful to me. I had wanted to get married in that temple, but because my BIC husband's family was huge (and I had major pressure from my MIL to move the ceremony), we were married in Salt Lake instead since the sealing rooms there were larger than those in Manti (the horror of my wedding day is another story). During my last temple visit, I didn't believe in the morg, yet I still held a temple recommend because I hadn't yet discussed my loss of beliefs with my bishop. (At the time, I still believed in Christianity and Christ as my savior but didn't lose those beliefs until the year after leaving the morg.)

I wanted a tour of the temple, more than anything else because I'd heard about how well they constructed the building and put amazingly wonderful personal details throughout it. Fortunately, after the endowment ceremony, I was able to find a sweet old man who gave me a tour and told me about the history of the architecture inside. Going through that tour made it so worthwhile.

But the ceremony was painful. I barely raised my hand and instead of saying, I will or yes, I said, no or I won't (in a whisper). No one heard me. I looked around in dismay as everyone went through the motions. It was the first time I realized how cultish the Mormon Church was.

The absolute best moment was when I left the temple. Another sweet old man stood at the door and said, "Goodbye," and I replied with a huge smile on my face saying, "Goodbye," knowing it was the final farewell to any Mormon temple and I was at peace with my decision. I still had my ward calling to deal with at home, but I was able to feel closure about the temple.
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Were They Honest With Us Before We Went To The Temple?
Thursday, Oct 25, 2012, at 02:39 PM
Original Author(s): Swearing Elder
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
This is the part that pisses me off the most. I could understand if in the temple prep classes and Sunday School they said, "We can't get into the exact specifics, but generally speaking you should know that you will take on important oaths and covenants, you will be dressed in robes and aprons, and so on..."

Something. Anything.

I mean, hell's bells, I'm in the temple for all of 15 minutes before I'm whisked to the basement to get my balls touched by an old dude while wearing nothing but a poncho.

Then I get to be told just minutes later, now that I've got my special underwear on and I'm sitting in the first room of the Salt Lake Temple with a white bag of who-knows-what in my lap, that if I can't live up to the covenants I'm about to take on I should get out. But...but...what are those covenants???

And if I walk out, then what? I've already got my mission call in hand. That's why I'm at the temple. And others around me are there for the first time for the same reason or because they're about to get married in a few days and all that means (all the arrangements made for the wedding).

And then I'm putting on a green apron. What. The. F??? I look over to my family. Ah, it's cool with them. Proceed.

Then it's time to see my robe for the first time and put it on with a baker's hat. Oh, but don't forget to take off your slippers first.

Raise your hand, bow your head and say "yes." Shake my hand this way. Now this way. Now this way. Now here's one more secret token, but we won't give it to you until you're at the veil and then you can learn it and say it back in an instant.

Oh, and let's take a minute to chant in a circle -- and ladies, make sure you cover your faces!

It's all a whirlwind. And then you're in the Celestial Room and everyone says, "Now wasn't that special?"

And just a few hours before you had no idea about any of this. Any of it.

Seriously. If you want to call it "sacred" and all that, fine. But at least give your members some inkling of what they are getting into.

The temple represents the worst of Mormonism. The total lack of ethics on the part of the church. The division of families. The guilting of members to do something they don't understand and most don't really want to do -- and to pay 10% of their income (and tons of their time and energy) for the right to do it.

The church's temple practices do real harm to its members. A little sunshine on its practices is long overdue. It would have been much better if they would be honest and open about its practices, but we all know that's not going to happen.

It would be much better if the church could just be more forthright with its members and interested investigators about the true nature of the temple. Looks like they waited just a little too long to take up that opportunity...
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The Temple Ceremonies Were Just Too Much
Tuesday, Nov 13, 2012, at 07:37 AM
Original Author(s): Normarae
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
When I was in high school there was a wonderful young married couple with 2 children who converted to the church. They were just as golden as it gets. She was our Lauel advisor, he worked with the scouts. They were so love bombed and everyone was waiting to get to go to the temple with them for their sealing.

They went to the temple on a Saturday and apparently came to church the following day and gave a letter to the bishop telling him they would not be back and they did not believe what they had experienced in the temple had anything to do with God.

I just remember all the scuttlebutt about it. We were really sad. My mom just kept going on about how beautiful the sealing was and how there was not a dry eye when they brought those two children in and how the spirit was so thick you could cut it with a knife (never understood why you want to cut the poor Holy Ghost). No one could understand it. Of course, it was all chalked up to good ol Satan. This couple even moved out of state shortly after that. I'm sure living in that small town where the Mormons would see you all the time must have been hard. I can't even remember their names now, I wish I could because I'd love to track them down.

Of course, when I went through the temple for the first time, I finally understood my Laurel teacher and her family and how traumatic it must have been for someone who had expected this amazing spiritual experience and the sealing of their family. I'll bet there WERE dry eyes in the room and it was theres. By the point of the sealing they were probably in total auto-pilot mode just wanting to get it over with and get out of there. After all the pantomiming of their own violent demise, after the naked touching, the groping at the veil, the handshakes, the passwords, the 3 hours of absoute boredom, they probably took the time on the 2-hr. drive home to make their escape plans.
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The Mormon Temples Are Not Designed For Meditation Or Thought
Sunday, Dec 23, 2012, at 09:45 AM
Original Author(s): Johnsmithson
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Can one go to the temple just to meditate with out doing any ordinance work?

The Mormon Temples are not designed for meditation or thought. They are more like a factory. When I went to the temple, I felt like I was being processed more than anything. Temple workers are like robots herding the people along. You don't have any time during the session to pause, sit and think. (Although it seemed there was always at least one person sleeping through the session.)

As people have said, when you are waiting for the session to start, and as people gather, there is sometimes a peaceful feeling in the quiet of the waiting rooms. And the temple grounds are always nicely kept. I always liked to walk around outside. Inside the temple, I don't recall any windows that you could use to look outside, or even any natural light. It's a little disorienting for those like me who feel a little claustrophobic when you go in and run around from dressing room to waiting room to session room to celestial room back to dressing room with no way to get your bearings or to know whether is sunny or raining or even night or day.

My parents say they always get inspired going to the temple. But even they rarely go anymore. It seems more an obligation than an inspiration. Frankly, temple work has always seemed to me to be less a religious experience than initiation rites to a secret society like the Freemasons that inspired the whole thing. You don't learn any new doctrine or anything. Just dress up in weird clothing--stuff that looks absolutely ridiculous--and exchange secret signs and cryptic words. How that would inspire anybody, or give them anything to meditate about, I don't know.
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Went Through The Mormon Temple In 1975
Tuesday, Jan 1, 2013, at 12:15 PM
Original Author(s): Dave (e_nomo)
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I went the first time in 1975. I was about to leave on my mission.

I had no idea what was going to happen, except that it was supposed to be beautiful and peaceful and I would learn a lot.

My bishop was going to an out-of-state temple wedding of someone in the ward and since I was a convert and had no family who could take me, he took me with.

No prep.

I was kind of shocked at...
  • the semi-naked washing and anointing
  • the bakers hats and green aprons
  • the bizarre movie with a protestant preacher in a suit and collar talking to cave-man style Adam and Eve, and them not knowing who he was, even though they were the parents of all. And the cartoonish Stan. And the "Rocky Horror" type interaction with the audience. The fact that the whole thing was a movie was pretty odd in the first place.
  • chanting Pay Lay Ale and hand waving
  • the slitting of the throat and gashing of the guts
  • the secret handshakes with accompanying names that weren't actually names
  • my "new name"
  • the veil with weird slits and hands poking thru them
  • the lack of anything special in the celestial room
  • the fact there was with no new info - I had heard the story of Adam and Eve before. I guess the handshakes were new, but not something I was "missing". I imagined it more as deep doctrine.
Other than that, it was great

In a way, I'm glad I got the full-on freak show version. It was, in retrospect, the beginning of the end for me. Which was a very good thing. NO regrets
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Temple Schedules, Holidays, And Reduced Hours -- Sneaky Ways To Hide Diving Attendance?
Wednesday, Jan 30, 2013, at 08:08 AM
Original Author(s): Sistersalamander
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I did a bit of research on lds.org, where one can view the schedules for all temples.

Many of the US temples outside the Morridor are now running only 5-15 sessions per WEEK. (The Lubbock Texas temple, for example, does 11. Bismarck North Dakota runs only 7 each week).

Since many of these are the newer, mini-temples with only one or two ordinance rooms and sealing rooms, plus smaller capacity per room, that would indicate that attendance is down. Way down.

(You can view sq. feet, and number of sealing/ordinance rooms here: http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/stati...).

Another indication is the list of closed dates for many of the US temples -- two weeks per year for maintenance, plus a slew of other individual dates they're closed or they close early. Even if they're running sessions every hour, they've got more holidays than Disneyland.

The Morg won't close temples permanently-- that would be openly admitting defeat. Even re-purposing them might look bad. They are already being sneaky about it by reducing operating hours and number of sessions, and increasing holidays, early-close days, maintenance closures, and the like. Then, they'll move to "apppointment only." As long as they have money to keep the temples minimally operational, they will. Given the cash stash, that'll be a very long time.

They want non-Mos to see temples everywhere. What counts is the impression of growth and busyness, not actual work being done.
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24 Hour Temples
Wednesday, Jan 30, 2013, at 08:50 AM
Original Author(s): Cludgie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
About a year ago, there was a huge push for people in our stake to do temple work. We were told there would be a time "soon" when there would be so much work to do, they would make our temple a 24 hour facility. There was a lot of talk about having overnight temple worker callings. My inlaws, who are temple workers, have also brought this up.

This is a Mormon motif that has circulated and recirculated for as long as I can remember. Back in the 1960s when there were only 13 temples, people were always exclaiming that the day would come when "temples will dot the earth" and be in operation 24 hours a day. And then every now and then some temple president gets a wild hair up his arse and decides to come down hard on the regional leaders. He opens up the temple for 24 hours a day on operating days, and demands that the leaders get their flocks to fill them.

This happened when I lived in Maryland in the 1990s and they tried to artificially "fulfill prophesy" by opening the DC temple (surrender, Dorothy!) for 24 hours and making us sign up for sessions held in the small hours of the morning. I was high priests group leader, so I had to set the example and go throuth 2:00am sessions and try to round up people to go with me. It was awful. It was always on a work day, for one thing, and I would either have to take leave or stay up overnight. All it did was make me drink coffee afterward, half because I needed it and wanted it, half in protest. Like anything else thunk up by some idiot and arrogant Mormon leader, it failed. For one, there would only be three couples and a worker or two for the prayer circle, and even with non-stop threatening the members, they couldn't drum up enough members to do it.

It's failure turned out to be our fault. I mean, who knew, right?
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Whose Apron Is It?
Friday, Feb 22, 2013, at 07:41 AM
Original Author(s): Justrob
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Whose apron is it?
It's been a long time since I went through the temple. So maybe my memory's off. But the every first time I saw the film and Adam and Eve make the apron to copy Satan. Why don't the angels tell them to take it off (nudity aside). I don't recall the angels wearing an apron. The whole time I kept thinking now the angels are here - they'll tell them to take it off because the apron is of Satan. Instead don't they just retie it? So whose authority is it anyway?
It's a weird symbol that doesn't make much sense.

So Satan has an apron representing his power and priesthoods Satan tells them to make an apron of fig leaves to hide their nakedness (so not power and priesthood)

Then god makes them some skins to wear as he kicks them out of the garden which is what our garments are supposed to represent

...so essentially, yes. The apron gets retired in lieu of the garments.

...and no one really has any explanation for why they keep wearing it in the temple after that point.

The temple is chock full of symbols that don't make sense. The whole garment marks reflect the veil marks, but then 2 of the marks don't get used in the veil, and they had to add 3 more marks to make it work... yeah, it's just shoddy work.

Or all the tokens that you don't use. You give all your signs at the veil, but the tokens are just completely dropped out of the ceremony (but you still have to memorize them) [apparently they used to be a part of the ceremony when it was longer... seems like an "important piece" they chopped out, whereas there are a lot of dull areas they could have trimmed].

I used to use that as justification that it must be true: "If I could invent a better temple ceremony with more cogent symbolism, then obviously this is true... otherwise they would have done a better job"
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Temples With Very Little Attendance
Monday, Aug 12, 2013, at 07:19 AM
Original Author(s): Rt
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
Mormon temples are shops without customers. In December 2011 I did the following calculation for each of the 131 temples that were then operational:

- Divided the number of planned sessions by the number of endowment rooms (you can find all this info on the church's temple site). Then divided that number by 5 workdays to arrive at the number of planned sessions per endowment room per workday (most temples are closed on Sundays and Mondays).

- To calculate the usage of a temple, I compared the number of planned sessions per workday to a theoretical full workday of 6 sessions per endowment room.

- This resulted in an average usage rate of 46%. In other words, in December 2011 Mormon temples went unused more than half the time.

The following 12 temples ran at full capacity at the time of my study: Jordan River Utah, Provo Utah, Bountiful Utah, Mount Timpanogos Utah, Las Vegas Nevada, Logan Utah, Mesa Arizona, Nuku Alofa Tonga, Houston Texas, Albuquerque New Mexico, Hamilton Nieuw Zeeland, St George Utah.

The following 16 temples were open less than 1 day a week: The Hague Netherlands, Lubbock Texas, Suva Fiji, Memphis Tennessee, Fukuoka Japan, Halifax Nova Scotia, Oaxaca Mexico, Regina Canada, Adelaide Australia, Bismarck North Dakota, Aba Nigeria, Baton Rouge Louisiana, Columbus Ohio, Raleigh North Carolina, Veracruz Mexico, Villahermosa Mexico.

Ever since the Hinckster introduced the McTemple concept in the mid-1990s, he said the increasing number of temples is indicative of the growth of the church (check out his GC talks at lds.org to see for yourself).

Whether these temples are actually being used, therefore, is irrelevant to their purpose: projecting an image of growth in the absence of real growth. Fancy materials and shiny lights at night will do just fine.

In this way, the temple has become a metaphor for Mormonism itself: pretty on the outside but empty within.
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The Covenants You Made In The Temple Are Not
Monday, Aug 19, 2013, at 08:41 AM
Original Author(s): Exbishfromportland
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
At the very beginning of the endowment, the members are told:

"Your Endowment is, to receive all those ordinances in the House of the Lord, which are necessary for you, to enable you to walk back to the presence of the Father, passing the angels who stand as sentinels, being enabled to give them the key words, the signs and the tokens, pertaining to the Holy Priesthood, and gain your eternal exaltation.

If you proceed and receive your full endowment, you will be required to take upon yourselves sacred obligations, the violation of which will bring upon you the judgment of God; for God will not be mocked. If any of you desire to withdraw rather than accept these obligations of your own free will and choice, you may now make it known by raising your hand."

From LDS.org, the definition of ordinances: In the Church, an ordinance is a sacred, formal act performed by the authority of the priesthood. Some ordinances are essential to our exaltation. These ordinances are called saving ordinances. They include baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the temple endowment, and the marriage sealing. With each of these ordinances, we enter into solemn covenants with the Lord.

From LDS.org, the definition of covenant: A covenant is a sacred agreement between God and a person or group of people. God sets specific conditions, and He promises to bless us as we obey those conditions.

So, the ordinances received in the temple are called saving ordinances. This means there is supposed to be a "solemn covenant" associated with each one. Each one of these should include a promise we make to the Lord. In return, the Lord should make a promise to us, conditional upon our obedience.

There are two different types of covenants that were required of us in the temple. The first were in conjunction with keeping signs and tokens secret and sacred. The second type were regarding laws the members were required to keep. Let's look at the laws first.

The Law of the Lord/Elohim

Members' part of the covenant: "If she will covenant that from this time forth she will obey the Law of the Lord, and will hearken unto your counsel as you hearken unto mine, and if you will covenant that from this time forth you will obey the Law of Elohim, we will give unto you the Law of Obedience and Sacrifice, and we will provide a Savior for you, whereby you may come back into our presence, and with us partake of Eternal Life and exaltation."

The Lord's part of the covenant: If Eve promises to obey the Law of the Lord (the woman obeys man as he obeys God) she will be blessed with even more strict requirements of obedience. It implies that only because they obey these commandments would God provide a savior.

The Law of Sacrifice

Members' part of the covenant: "The posterity of Adam down to Moses, and from Moses to Jesus Christ offered up the first fruits of the field, and the firstlings of the flock, which continued until the death of Jesus Christ, which ended sacrifice by the shedding of blood. And as Jesus Christ has laid down his life for the redemption of mankind, so we should covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God.

All arise. Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you solemnly covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar that you will observe and keep the Law of Sacrifice, as contained in the Holy Scriptures, as it has been explained to you. Each of you bow your head and say yes."

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. Christ paid the ultimate sacrifice and freed us from the old law. Yet we are required here to continue living it.

The Law of the Gospel

Members' part of the covenant: "We are required to give unto you the Law of the Gospel as contained in the Holy Scriptures; to give unto you also a charge to avoid all light mindedness, loud laughter, evil speaking of the Lord's anointed, the taking of the name of God in vain, and every other unholy and impure practice, and to cause you to receive these by covenant.

Each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses, that you will observe and keep the Law of the Gospel and this charge as it has been explained to you. Each of you bow your heads and say yes."

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The Law of Chastity

Member's part of the covenant: "Give unto them the Law of Chastity, and put them under covenant to obey this law, which is, that the daughters of Eve, and the sons of Adam shall have no sexual relations except with their husbands or wives to whom they are legally and lawfully wedded."

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The Law of Consecration

Members' part of the covenant: "You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.

Each of you bow your head and say "yes."

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The other covenants below are those regarding signs and tokens.

The First token of the Aaronic Priesthood

Members' part of the covenant: I, John, covenant before God, angels and these witnesses, that I will never reveal the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name and sign.

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The Second token of the Aaronic Priesthood

Members' part of the covenant: I, David, solemnly covenant before God, angels and these witnesses, that I will never reveal the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name and sign.

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The First token of the Melchizedek Priesthood

Members' part of the covenant: I solemnly covenant before God, angels, and these witnesses, in the name of the Son that I will never reveal the First Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood or Sign of the Nail, with its accompanying name and sign.

The Lord's part of the covenant: Nothing is given. This is a one sided promise. A unilateral promise is not a covenant.

The Second token of the Melchizedek Priesthood

Members' part of the covenant: We will now give unto you the Second Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the Patriarchal Grip, or Sure Sign of the Nail, with its accompanying sign. This token has a name and a sign. You will be under the same sacred obligation in connection with this token and sign as you are with the other tokens and signs of the Holy Priesthood which you have received in the temple this day. The Lord's part of the covenant: The wording in the members' portion is very important. The members are not required to covenant here, but are reminded they are under the same obligation as the other signs and tokens. In the old version (pre 1990) it says "This token has a name and a sign, but no penalty is mentioned, however, you will be under the same sacred obligation in connection with this token...

Now it becomes clear. In the old version of the endowment (pre 1990), you are being warned, that though not mentioned specifically, your obligations here are the same as for the other tokens.

In the pre 1990 version of the endowment there was a penalty mentioned in conjunction with both tokens of the Aaronic Priesthood and the first token of the Melchizedek Priesthood. Those covenants all ended with "I will never reveal [insert token here], with its accompanying name, sign, and penalty. Rather than do so, I would suffer my life to be taken."

Along with the words spoken, gestures were made by the members that symbolized the throat being slit or being disemboweled. This part of the endowment was very upsetting and disturbing to the members. This was in effect when my wife and I took out our endowments. In 1990 it was taken out. But with its removal we notice an interesting thing. The old version WAS a covenant. The member promised to keep the sign and token secret. The Lord promised not to kill them.

That's it. That is the only blessing given for keeping the tokens secret. You won't be killed. To make the ceremony more palatable, the threats of death have been removed. The sick and twisted "Obey me or suffer death" portion of covenant has been deleted. Now the members simply promise unconditional obedience and the Lord makes no promises at all back to the member.

The obligations regarding the signs and tokens of the priesthood are not covenants. The Lord makes no reciprocal agreements here. The laws of Elohim, Sacrifice, The Gospel, Chastity, and Consecration do not involve any reciprocal agreements. These are not covenants. Don't feel bad about breaking your temple covenants to the Mormon God. You never made any. He just conned you into promising unconditional obedience.
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Ah, My Temple Wedding. What A Day.
Friday, Sep 6, 2013, at 07:12 AM
Original Author(s): Ck
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
I had never been to a temple wedding before so even though I'd been to the temple a couple of times since receiving my endowment I had no idea what to expect that morning dh and I were married.

I was nervous and excited. I knew I loved the him and that I wanted to marry him. The morning started off rough b/c while the rest of my family was ready on time, including me, my aunt was running way late and she didn't know how to get to the temple. This was in the days before smart phones and GPS systems, so we had to wait on her, which made us arrive at the temple almost 30 minutes late. That added considerable stress to what is always a stressful event (albeit happy stress) anyway.

I was taken back to the bride's room and was surprised to see clothing and bags belonging to another bride. I was married in a weekday at a smaller temple and thought b/c of that I'd have the place a little more to myself.

The temple worker who helped me was not the angelic sweetheart that I had been told I would have helping me. The woman was a pill and I was so frustrated with her! She had been unhelpful the whole time but the pinnacle of the morning and the only specific I'll share about her was when she decided that my veil (the ugly temple one, not the beautiful handmade one a friend had made for me to match my gorgeous dress) was too far back on my head. Instead of letting me know that she thought I needed to move it farther forward (which I didn't agree with, especially given that my hairstyle was a low chignon), she pulled it out of my hair without warning. In the process my hair became tangled in the comb and she destroyed my hairstyle in a few seconds' time. I was so mad at her I could have spit nails. I couldn't fix my hair, we were already running behind, and instead of feeling peaceful and happy I was filled with murderous rage! She left the bride's room and I took a few minutes to calm myself down.

Fortunately someone had told me that I would be putting all my ceremonial temple clothing on over the top of my wedding dress, but even so I was disappointed in how I looked going to meet the man I loved. There was nothing pretty about it and frankly, he looked less than I imagined too. But I realized that these things were superficial and we were going to be married in the temple and that was what really mattered.

The ceremony where he took me through the veil was nothing special. I had expected it to feel more meaningful. It bothered me even then as a TBMx10 that I told him my new name but he was unable to tell me his.

As for the sealing itself, the room was so quiet it felt awkward to me. I was so excited to be marrying my guy that I was, truly, happy. But I was also disappointed by how plain the ceremony was. I didn't like that I didn't know exactly what our covenants were to be ahead of time. And it was deflating that my only contribution to the entire ceremony was when I got to say one word: "Yes." That was it.

Meanwhile, my veil was falling out of my hair and my hair was falling out of its style, so I looked like a wreck. The look-in-the-mirror-and-see-your-eternal-reflection thing wasn't as special as I had expected it to be. We were permitted to exchange rings in the sealing room, but only as an afterthought and that was awkward too. And then afterward we had to stand there while our family and friends came by and in very quiet, hushed tones told us how beautiful it had all been.

Overall, I found the entire event to be impersonal and dissatisfying. It was not pretty or lovely. We had no opportunity to speak to each other or confirm our love. There was no music, no special readings and frankly, I looked like bloody hell b/c of that stupid temple worker.

At the end of the day, I was married to the man I loved and that's all that mattered. Thinking forward to my own children's weddings, though, I'd rather not go that route.
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Survived Temple Preparation Class
Tuesday, Sep 10, 2013, at 07:06 AM
Original Author(s): Cludgie
Topic: MORMON TEMPLES   -Link To MC Article-
When learning about the temple, you will have to go on-line. I have taught temple preparation class myself, and I can confirm that they are careful to never tell you anything substantial about the temple endowment. It's well beyond the point about it being "sacred" (read: secret). It is because if they were to tell you, you probably would not go. It is because of the temple that they have such low retention of members, and they know that. If they always couch it in terms of "creation," and "pre-existence," and "eternal promises," and other such nonsense, it sounds pretty good.

The best thing that I could tell anyone--and this was not scripted or in the book, and I would have been advised to NOT offer the information--one is asked to take on new covenants that exceed those of baptism. At baptism you convenant to real simple stuff. In the temple you covenant to live the Law of the Gospel, and the Law of Consecration, among other laws (a total of 6, I think). Just the Law of Consecration is so bad that I'm sure many first-time attendees are tempted to bolt. The Law of Consecration is that you dedicate "everything which which the Lord has blessed you or with which the Lord MAY bless you," including your possessions, money, time, and talent, to "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and to the building up of Zion." The lessons say nothing about how they could come to you some day and ask for your savings. (They have done that to me when they were building the Tokyo temple.)

In the past you had to be "washed and anointed" by taking off all your clothes and being covered only by a poncho, then standing with others as they called you forward into a little booth where they daubed your body first with water, then with oil in certain places. When they washed and anointed you to be "fruitful," for instance, they got really, really close to the ol' nether regions. That was so offensive that they finally did away with it, but only in 2006.

Of course, they introduce you to the Masonic "signs and tokens" needed to pass the sentinels that guard heaven. If you want to see what they are, you can go to a website that may show the Blue Lodge Masonry induction, the handshakes, etc. That's all they are. But there used to be a penalty for each token. The "first token of the Aaronic priesthood," for instance, required that you promise to allow your throat to be cut from ear to ear should you ever divulge the token. That was so creepy that many never returned to the church again, so the penalties were done away with only in 1990.

Google is your friend. You temple preparation teacher is not.
 
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  · ADAM GOD DOCTRINE (4)
  · APOLOGISTS (53)
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  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 12 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 13 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 14 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 15 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 16 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 17 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 18 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 19 (26)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 2 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 20 (24)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 21 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 22 (24)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 23 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 24 (28)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 3 (24)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 4 (24)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 5 (23)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 6 (24)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 7 (25)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 8 (24)
  · EX-MORMON OPINION - SECTION 9 (26)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 1 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 10 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 11 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 12 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 13 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 14 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 15 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 16 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 17 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 18 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 19 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 2 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 20 (24)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 21 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 22 (24)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 23 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 24 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 25 (25)
  · EX-MORMONISM SECTION 26 (61)
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  · OLIVER COWDREY (6)
  · ORRIN HATCH (10)
  · PARLEY P. PRATT (11)
  · PATRIARCHAL BLESSING (5)
  · PAUL H. DUNN (5)
  · PBS DOCUMENTARY THE MORMONS (20)
  · PERSECUTION (9)
  · PIONEER DAY (3)
  · PLAN OF SALVATION (5)
  · POLYGAMY (60)
  · PRIESTHOOD BLESSINGS (1)
  · PRIESTHOOD EXECUTIVE MEETING (0)
  · PRIMARY (1)
  · PROCLAMATIONS (1)
  · PROPOSITION 8 (21)
  · PROPOSITION 8 COMMENTS (11)
  · QUENTIN L. COOK (11)
  · RELIEF SOCIETY (14)
  · RESIGNATION PROCESS (31)
  · RICHARD E. TURLEY, JR. (6)
  · RICHARD G. HINCKLEY (2)
  · RICHARD G. SCOTT (7)
  · RICHARD LYMAN BUSHMAN (11)
  · ROBERT D. HALES (5)
  · ROBERT L. MILLET (7)
  · RODNEY L. MELDRUM (15)
  · ROYAL SKOUSEN (2)
  · RUNTU'S RINCON (78)
  · RUSSELL M. NELSON (14)
  · SACRAMENT MEETING (11)
  · SALT LAKE TRIBUNE (1)
  · SCOTT D. WHITING (1)
  · SCOTT GORDON (5)
  · SEMINARY (5)
  · SERVICE AND CHARITY (24)
  · SHERI L. DEW (3)
  · SHIELDS RESEARCH - MORMON APOLOGETICS (4)
  · SIDNEY RIGDON (7)
  · SIMON SOUTHERTON (34)
  · SPAULDING MANUSCRIPT (8)
  · SPENCER W. KIMBALL (12)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 1 (18)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 10 (17)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 11 (15)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 12 (19)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 13 (21)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 14 (17)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 15 (12)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 2 (21)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 3 (18)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 4 (25)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 5 (22)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 6 (19)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 7 (15)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 8 (13)
  · STEVE BENSON - SECTION 9 (19)
  · STORIES (1)
  · SUNSTONE FOUNDATION (2)
  · SURVEILLANCE (SCMC) (12)
  · TAD R. CALLISTER (3)
  · TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 1 (25)
  · TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 2 (25)
  · TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 3 (25)
  · TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 4 (25)
  · TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 5 (25)
  · TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 6 (25)
  · TAL BACHMAN - SECTION 7 (9)
  · TALKS - SECTION 1 (1)
  · TEMPLE WEDDINGS (6)
  · TEMPLES - NAMES (1)
  · TERRYL GIVENS (1)
  · THE PEARL OF GREAT PRICE (1)
  · THE SINGLE WARDS (5)
  · THE WORLD TABLE (3)
  · THOMAS PHILLIPS (18)
  · THOMAS S. MONSON (33)
  · TIME (4)
  · TITHING (63)
  · UGO PEREGO (5)
  · UK COURTS (7)
  · UNNANOUNCED, UNINVITED AND UNWELCOME (36)
  · UTAH LIGHTHOUSE MINISTRY (3)
  · VALERIE HUDSON (3)
  · VAN HALE (16)
  · VAUGHN J. FEATHERSTONE (1)
  · VIDEOS (30)
  · WARD CLEANING (4)
  · WARREN SNOW (1)
  · WELFARE (0)
  · WENDY L. WATSON (7)
  · WHITE AND DELIGHTSOME (11)
  · WILFORD WOODRUFF (6)
  · WILLIAM HAMBLIN (11)
  · WILLIAM LAW (1)
  · WILLIAM SCHRYVER (5)
  · WILLIAM WINES PHELPS (3)
  · WOMEN AND MORMONISM (86)
  · WORD OF WISDOM (7)
  · WORLD CONGRESS OF FAMILIES (1)
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