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TITHING
Total Articles:
25
Mormons are required by Commandment of God to pay 10% of all their GROSS income to the LDS church. This includes all income, including, employment, social security, Medicare, foodstamps and trust funds and any other form of income, even including finding money on the ground.
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 | Mormonism and Tithing
Article Archived: Saturday, Apr 8, 2006, at 08:06 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: Infymus |  | |
Tithing always comes first in Mormonism. Any member who is struggling in any way (job loss, broken down car, depression, etc) will always be counseled to pay tithing in order to receive blessings. All blessings, privileges and callings in the LDS Church are centered around tithing. Without paying a full tithe, a member cannot be a member in good standing.
Mormons are required by Commandment of God to pay 10% of all their GROSS income to the LDS church. This includes all income, including, employment, social security, Medicare, food stamps and trust funds and any other form of income, even including finding money on the ground.
The Church Of Jesus-Christ of Latter-Day Saints brings in an estimated 6.5 to 7.0 billion dollars a year in annual tithing revenues. The Church refuses to disclose to the public or its members how much money it receives annually and what those funds are used for. Because the LDS Church is a tax-exempt organization, it does not have to publicly disclose financial books.
In 2005 the LDS Church purchased two shopping malls in Downtown Salt Lake City for $500 million dollars. The Church plans to spend $1 to $3.5 billion dollars renovating them. In official statements from LDS Church, the Church claims that not one dollar of member tithing funds went into the deal.
Mormons are required to attend a Tithing Settlement with the Bishop each year. A member is questioned in a one-on-one interview with the Bishop to ensure the member is paying a full 10%. Those members who are not paying a full 10% loose their temple recommends and are prevented from entering the Temple.
Mormons who loose their temple recommends are in serious jeopardy of loosing their Celestial blessings. A Mormon who does not pay tithing cannot enter the temple. If a member cannot get into the temple, the member cannot learn the secret handshake, secret password, secret "new name" and special sealings. Without these, the member will be unable to pass Joseph Smith and the angels who guard the entrance to the Celestial Kingdom.
Mormons are commanded that tithing must come first before anything else. Utah has the highest rate of bankruptcies in the United States. Mormons often are told "I cannot pay my bills until I've paid my tithing." Mormons will even pay their tithing rather than give the money to a relative who is on the verge of eviction. Mormon published magazines (Ensign, New Era) constantly stress that tithing must always be paid.
Recently, Mormon Senator Orrin Hatch passed legislation that allowed members to pay a full tithe even while they were in bankruptcy court. (See S. 4044).
Mormons are told: "if a destitute family is faced with the decision of paying their tithing or eating, they should pay their tithing." (Lynn Robbins, General Conference, April 2005).
Mormons who have not paid tithing will be denied a temple recommend and will be considered "unworthy". However; Mormons who pay "back-tithing" (some as much as $5000 or more) are instantly found to be worthy and can receive their temple recommends back once the money has been paid. The Mormon Church uses this as an extortion method when it comes to temple marriages. Parents or family members who have not paid tithing are required to pay back tithing - sometimes in the thousands of dollars - which must be paid before a temple recommend can be issued in order to see their own children married.
Mormons are further threatened that if they do not pay a full tithe, they will be burned with fire when Jesus Christ comes again. Mormons see Tithing as "fire insurance".
Mormons who claim that tithing is purely "a personal choice" are deceiving themselves and outright lying.
| | | The Changing Law Of Tithing
Article Archived: Wednesday, Feb 23, 2005, at 07:35 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: OKGivens | | |
"The celestial law requires one-tenth part of all a man's substance which he possesses at the time he comes into the church (See D&C 119:1), and one-tenth part of his annual increase ever after (See D&C 119:4). IF IT REQUIRES ALL MAN CAN EARN TO SUPPORT HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY, HE IS NOT TITHED AT ALL. The celestial law does not take the mother's and children's bread, neither ought else which they really need for their comfort. The poor that have not of this world's good to spare, but serve and honor God according to the best of their abilities in every other way, shall have a celestial crown in the Eternal Kingdom of our Father." (The Millenial Star, 1847. Orson Hyde, editor)
The first scriptural definition of what exactly is tithed, was given by Joseph Smith in his inspired translation (Joseph Smith Translation or JST) of Genesis 14 (about 1830, see D&C 37:1), which included new verses. Verse 39 states: Wherefore Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED. (Emphasis added.) Abraham paid tithes on the amount "more than that which he had need".
Franklin D. Richards explained the meaning of SURPLUS as it appeared in verse 1 of D&C 119: "I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop" Let us consider for a moment this word 'SURPLUS.' What does it mean when applied to a man and his property? SURPLUS CANNOT MEAN THAT WHICH IS INDISPENSABLY NECESSARY FOR ANY GIVEN PURPOSE, BUT WHAT REMAINS AFTER SUPPLYING WHAT IS NEEDED FOR THAT PURPOSE. Is not the first and most necessary use of a man's property that he feed, clothe and provide a home for himself and family! . . . WAS NOT 'SURPLUS PROPERTY,' THAT WHICH WAS OVER AND ABOVE A COMFORTABLE AND NECESSARY SUBSTANCE? In the light of what had transpired and of subsequent events, what else could it mean? CAN WE TAKE ANY OTHER VIEW OF IT WHEN WE CONSIDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH IT WAS GIVEN IN FAR WEST, IN JULY, 1838? "I have been unable in studying this subject to find any other definition of the term 'SURPLUS,' as used in this revelation, than the one I have just given. I find that it was so understood and recorded by the Bishops and people in those days, AS WELL AS BY THE PROPHET JOSEPH HIMSELF, WHO WAS UNQUESTIONABLY THE ABLEST AND BEST EXPONENT OF THIS REVELATION." (Emphasis added, Franklin D. Richards, Nov. 6, 1882. JD 23:313.)
| One of the things I learned while exiting the church that I wish I would have known all along were a few things about tithing.
For those of you who are married to a TBM or have TBM family and friends and are under the magnifying glass regarding everything Mo...consider this.......
- The church handbook does not state any percentage to be paid in tithing. I will try to find the excerpt.
- You do not have to pay tithing directly to your bishop. For privacy reasons the church will allow tithing payments to be mailed to the COB. They DO NOT report the dollar amount to your bishop. They only notify your bishop that you have paid tithing. So when you go to tithing settlement or are asked if you pay a full tithing you can answer yes and they have no way to question the amount. You can pay just a dollar a month. It is up to YOU to decide if you are a full tithe payer or not.
Gosh knowing this over my nearly 30 years as a member would have saved me a lot of money. I never liked being forced to pay a percentage. I always felt it should be and is a personal decision.
Not only can you discretely pay your tithing directly to the Church (something that was particularly instituted for the very wealthy who don't think the Bishop needs to be nosing into their financial status...isn't that interesting...), but you can also transfer stock to the Church by this method in lieu of tithing. They don't want eggs, milk or hay any longer, but they're happy to relieve you of your Microsoft...
I have also heard, though only second hand, that the very wealthy who have contributed an ungodly amount of tithing can receive an exemption from any further tithing (sound like a particular political party to anyone?) Anyway, I have HEARD, that a particular man in our town had received notice from the Church Office that he was considered paid in full and didn't need to pay any more. Apparently the mortgage for his mansion on high has already been paid. Anybody else ever heard that, or should I add it to the Urban Legend thread?
| | | If A Destitute Family Is Faced With The Decision Of Paying Their Tithing Or Eating, They Should Pay Their Tithing
Article Archived: Thursday, Apr 7, 2005, at 09:14 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: Argar Largar | | |
The transcripts of General Conference talks are now available. This is the title of a talk from Saturday afternoon by Lynn Robbins who says:
Among those who do not sacrifice there are two extremes: one is the rich, gluttonous man who won't and the other is the poor, destitute man who believes he can't. But how can you ask someone who is starving to eat less? Is there a level of poverty so low that sacrifice should not be expected or a family so destitute that paying tithing should cease to be required?
One reason the Lord illustrates doctrines with the most extreme circumstances is to eliminate excuses. If the Lord expects even the poorest widow to pay her mite, where does that leave all others who find that it is not convenient or easy to sacrifice?
No bishop, no missionary should ever hesitate or lack the faith to teach the law of tithing to the poor. The sentiment of "They can't afford to" needs to be replaced with "They can't afford not to."
One of the first things a bishop must do to help the needy is ask them to pay their tithing. Like the widow, if a destitute family is faced with the decision of paying their tithing or eating, they should pay their tithing.
I don't even have words to say how pissed off this makes me feel.
Another fine example of Mormonism: PAY, PRAY, OBEY.
| | | Tithing Rip-off Not Historical LDS Position
Article Archived: Friday, Apr 29, 2005, at 07:58 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: Anonymous | | |
When the LDS Church began, tithing was handled much differently than it is today. Instead of requiring 10% of gross income as the Church does today, the Church only required 10% of what was leftover after all necessary living expenses had been deducted from income. The current LDS method of tithing is unscriptural and gives way too much power and money to the Church while robbing the poor and middle class of necessary living expenses.
"The celestial law requires one-tenth part of all a man's substance which he possesses at the time he comes into the church (See D&C 119:1), and one-tenth part of his annual increase ever after(See D&C 119:4). IF IT REQUIRES ALL MAN CAN EARN TO SUPPORT HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY, HE IS NOT TITHED AT ALL. The celestial law does not take the mother's and children's bread, neither ought else which they really need for their comfort. The poor that have not of this world's good to spare, but serve and honor God according to the best of their abilities in every other way, shall have a celestial crown in the Eternal Kingdom of our Father." (The Millenial Star, 1847. Orson Hyde, editor)
The first scriptural definition of what exactly is tithed, was given by Joseph Smith in his inspired translation (Joseph Smith Translation or JST) of Genesis 14 (about 1830, see D&C 37:1), which included new verses. Verse 39 states: Wherefore Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED. (Emphasis added.) Abraham paid tithes on the amount "more than that which he had need".
Franklin D. Richards explained the meaning of SURPLUS as it appeared in verse 1 of D&C 119: "I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop" Let us consider for a moment this word 'SURPLUS.' What does it mean when applied to a man and his property? SURPLUS CANNOT MEAN THAT WHICH IS INDISPENSABLY NECESSARY FOR ANY GIVEN PURPOSE, BUT WHAT REMAINS AFTER SUPPLYING WHAT IS NEEDED FOR THAT PURPOSE. Is not the first and most necessary use of a man's property that he feed, clothe and provide a home for himself and family! . . . WAS NOT 'SURPLUS PROPERTY,' THAT WHICH WAS OVER AND ABOVE A COMFORTABLE AND NECESSARY SUBSTANCE? In the light of what had transpired and of subsequent events, what else could it mean? CAN WE TAKE ANY OTHER VIEW OF IT WHEN WE CONSIDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH IT WAS GIVEN IN FAR WEST, IN JULY, 1838? "I have been unable in studying this subject to find any other definition of the term 'SURPLUS,' as used in this revelation, than the one I have just given. I findthat it was so understood and recorded by the Bishops and people in those days, AS WELL AS BY THE PROPHET JOSEPH HIMSELF, WHO WAS UNQUESTIONABLY THE ABLEST AND BEST EXPONENT OF THIS REVELATION." (Emphasis added, Franklin D. Richards, Nov. 6, 1882. JD 23:313.)
| | | The Mormon Church Does A Masterful Job At Masquerading As A Charitable Organization
Article Archived: Wednesday, May 11, 2005, at 07:51 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: Anonymous | | |
The church does a masterful job at masquerading as a charitable organization. The members fall for it hook, line, and sinker. The idea that the church does so much good in the world has become firmly ingrained into LDS thinking. The reality is shocking and sickening when you digest it all:
The LDS church takes in well over 14 million dollars PER DAY in tithing, which amounts to OVER 5 BILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR (these were estimates from nearly ten years ago, so they are likely higher now).
According to Gordon B. Hinckley in a talk a few years ago:
"Last year alone we sent humanitarian aid to assist with 829 projects in 101 countries, giving 11.2 million dollars in cash and 44 million in material resources for a total $55.2 million."
Assuming we can take the prophet's word for it--and assuming this wasn't an extraordinarily charitable year for the church (which, considering the fact that most years go by without the church releasing any such financial numbers, seems unlikely)-- this means the church spends about 1% of its annual income, or, to look at it another way, LESS THAN $5 PER MEMBER PER YEAR, on charity.
Bill Gates, by contrast (and whose net worth is probably in the same neighborhood as the church's), has a charitable foundation that gives away over ONE BILLION DOLLARS each year to charity, or ABOUT TWENTY TIMES AS MUCH AS THE LDS CHURCH, even taking a conservative estimate for tithing intake and a liberal estimate for the church's charitable givings. Bill And Melinda Gates Foundatation TBMs, your tithing money would do more good for the world if you were to instead give it to BILL GATES. Alarm bells should be going off in any reasonable person's head right about now.
Clearly the $55 million per year (which was probably a banner year for the church) is nothing more than advertising/marketing for new members, and what a bargain for their advertising dollar when you look at the tithing income resulting therefrom!
I find the mere thought of giving money to an organization like this repugnant. The thought that I gave money to this organization makes me want to puke. I would feel better about giving my money away to BILL FREAKING GATES FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!
| | | A Bill For Tithing?
Article Archived: Monday, Jul 18, 2005, at 07:53 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
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Original Author Of Article: Anonymous | | |
The first time, I'd been out of the church for about six or seven years. I'd married a nevermo, changed states, and never attended the ward where the bill originated.
One day I came home from work to find an envelope in my mailbox from the local ward. I was annoyed because I'd been telling them to leave me alone. My husband was pissed because they kept visiting, phoning, and sending ward newsletters as if I was a part of their cult.
Once inside the house, I opened the letter. It was from the local bishop, saying he and the other bishop-prick guys wanted 100% tithing participation. They knew I didn't want contact and would probably not attend some stupid "settlement," so they had prayed and decided to ask for a minimal amount of tithing, something like $200. I turned over the letter and wrote back that I was not mormon and wanted them to leave me alone and sent it back.
A year later, I received a similar bill. Mormons can be such weird fanatical zealots. They actually think they can force some "Lord" in the sky to manipulate a person they don't know or care about into paying money to a detestable organization, one so bad as to pull a stunt like this one.
| | | Stake High Councilor Interview
Article Archived: Wednesday, Aug 3, 2005, at 11:12 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: Anonymous | | |
I had an interesting experience at church yesterday.
Minutes before SM (last hour) while we're running around trying to collect our kids from primary classes, DW comes up to me and says that this high council guy wants to meet with us. I've never met the man, and even now I don't remember his name, but I do recognize him as the guy who occasionally gets up in SM to talk about stake callings, etc.
So DW and I and our three boys crowd into a little classroom with high council guy, and he proceeds to tell us that 1) the stake maintains a list of endowed members who do not currently hold TR's, 2) our names are on that list, and 3) he wants us to do whatever we need to do to get our names off of that list by the end of the year.
Standard mormon crap, right? Well, there are a number of things that strike me as fishy about this little encounter.
First of all, has anyone ever heard of high councilor conducting an interview like this? I never have. He said that he had talked to both the SP and my bishop before talking to us, so we didn't need to worry that he was "stepping on any toes," but he didn't say who initiated the meeting. Also, he would start to say something, or ask a question, and then stop himself, as if he was venturing beyond his authority. He said his only purpose was to motivate us, not to hold us accountable or whatever.
Secondly, our names should not appear on any list because our TR's are current. They don't expire until the end of September. I wish I had pointed this out to him at the time, but I didn't. I think the whole lapsed TR thing was just a pretext to talk about tithing anyway, which brings me to the final example of weirdness.
He never asked us to confirm that our TRs had indeed lapsed. He only said, "Now, I can guess why that would be the case," and then went on to talk about paying tithing. He went on an on about tithing, without ever actually asking us if that was, in fact, the reason that we supposedly allowed our TRs to lapse. I'm thinking that he really just wanted to let us know that he knows that we're not paying tithing, and made up the whole TR thing as a pretext because he doesn't want to openly admit that ward and stake leadership keep tabs on who's paying and who's not.
Here's what I think happened: the bishop knows we're not paying tithing because he looks at the finances, and he asked the high councilor to talk to us about it because he thinks we might be motivated by the thought that we're on some stake hit list.
The whole thing ruined DW's day, and pisses me off as well. Fucking cult. The one good thing was that the interview made us late to SM, so we just decided to head home.
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The annual report on Tithing and Offerings of each Ward/Branch is supposed to be reviewed by the Stake President before signed and transmitted to church HQ. When I was in Chicago I caught the Stake Clerk reviewing our report too a few times. This report shows subtotal amounts by Tithing, FO, Mishie fund and the grand total of the year per family. When I was an Assistant Stake Clerk I was privvy to all that info whenever I helped the Ward-level clerks figure out FIS and its details. But I treated the info like I would any business customer data and tried my best to forget it. I'm a software developer and I take seriously the ethics to not misuse customer data.
Frankly if I were still active and trying to maintain TR status then I'd just donate a few shares of near-worthless pennystock to L-dS, inc. headquarters with a 2-part letter. Part 1 would spell out that I'm making a tithing-in-kind gift. Part 2 would spell out the numbers details to be included in my tax planning file folder. Then I'd give a copy of Part 1 to the Bishop. A lot of wealthy L-dS, inc. members do this so the clerks won't know how much they are earning and for better tax planning purposes.
Just remember that L-dS, inc. collects a lot of data. If you ever slack off on tithing or other requirements then they've got the data in their system to track much of this. Seeing what they are doing to restrict the sales of temple garments tells me that we can expect future real efforts at monitoring & evaluating the membership on an individual basis. As long as their growth trend continues downward and the media bias more negative I believe they'll get more paranoid and work harder to "protect" their reputation and the good name of Joseph Smith & other key marketing symbols. I wouldn't be surprised one bit to see the GA(s) using more exhaustive statistical metrics on individuals/couples whenever they choose new Seventies, MP(s), SP(s), Bishop(s), etc. If your score-rating is low then you'll certainly doom your chances at getting important callings in the kingdom and the highest rank you'll ever achieve will be as Assistant Chairman of the Sh*t-scrubbing subcommittee on the Temple Janitors Council. And ifyou don't keep your recommend current then you won't even get the blessings of cleaning up Jesus's holy sh*t at the temple.
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In my experience as stake and ward assistant clerks, the stake president did receive a record of tithing receipts at least annually. This report include a declaration of full/part tithe-paying status.
This was an official report, generated by FIS.
I also think that it would be entirely possible that a SP could request bishop's to produce ad-hoc reports of those not paying tithing, if that was a kick that a particular SP was on.
Anything is possible. Any report an SP asks for from the wards, he is going to get it.
| | | Elder Robbins' Talk On Tithing Contradicts The D&C
Article Archived: Thursday, Aug 25, 2005, at 07:25 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: Anonymous | | |
Joseph and Sydney produced D&C 119:4 (1838). It states:
And after that, those who have been thus tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their INTEREST annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them FOREVER, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord. (Emphases added.)
Webster's 1828 Dictionary defines "INTEREST" as
"5. Any surplus advantage." (http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/...)
Webster's defines "advantage", in pertinent part, as
"Interest; increase; overplus".
Both refer to a surplus or overplus.
Joseph and Sydney also produced the Joseph Smith Translation (JST) of the Bible. It is in Sydney's handwriting.
Wherefore Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED. JST Genesis 14:39. (Emphasis added.)
Therefore without doubt, titing in Mormon scripture means "one-tenth of their surplus advantage annually", which means "more than that which they have need".
If you doubt this, the First Presidency still has a letter from 1970, quoted in the current General Handbook of Instructions, that states:
What is a proper tithe?
For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their INTEREST annually, which is understood to mean income. NO ONE IS JUSTIFIED IN MAKING ANY OTHER STATEMENT THAN THIS. We feel that every member of the Church should be ENTITLED TO MAKE HIS OWN DECISION as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly. (Letter from the First Presidency, dated March 19, 1970).
What do you think?
| | | Tithing Messages And General Conference
Article Archived: Monday, Oct 3, 2005, at 07:09 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: Sarony | | |
I am curious to see what comes out of General Conference about tithing.
There has been a progression in the last few years to hit the topic harder. The series of speeches includes Jeffrey Holland, Earl Tingey, Robert Hales, Sydney Sperry, and most recently, Lynn Robbins.
Not one of these people have quoted the only passage of Mormon scripture that defines, once and "for ever" (D&C 119), what is to be tithed.
I wrote an essay a couple years ago that included analysis of the first four above-mentioned people and their conference talks. It was getting a little long to add what Robbins to it, with analysis. But the post has been archived on this board.
So here is a "modern" version with just the talks by Robbins and Holland analyzed.
Elder Lynn Robbins delivered a speech on tithing in the April 2005 General Conference. The title of the speech, as it appeared in the May 2005 Ensign Magazine was entitled: "Tithing?a Commandment Even for the Destitute".
I. Introduction
Elder Robbins stated, "Among those who do not sacrifice there are two extremes: one is the rich, gluttonous man who won't and the other is the poor, destitute man who believes he can't. But how can you ask someone who is starving to eat less? Is there a level of poverty so low that sacrifice should not be expected or a family so destitute that paying tithing should cease to be required?"
But does Mormon scripture support the notion that the destitute must pay tithing?
No.
Is there any scripture that suggests the Elders can abuse the poor?
Yes.
From Isaiah 3:14-15.
"YHWH will enter into judgment with the elders of his people, And their leaders: "It is you who have eaten up the vineyard. THE SPOIL OF THE POOR IS IN YOUR HOUSES. What do you mean that you crush my people, And GRIND THE FACE OF THE POOR?" says the Lord, YHWH of Hosts.
II. Mormon Scripture
Mormon scripture states plainly that tithing is to be paid on any excess beyond a person's needs.
Joseph Smith and Sydney Rigdon produced D&C 119:4 (1838). It states:
"And after that, those who have been thus tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their INTEREST annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them FOREVER, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord." (Emphases added.)
Webster's 1828 Dictionary defines "INTEREST" as
"5. Any surplus advantage." (http://65.66.134.201/cgi-bin/webster/webster.exe?search_for_texts_web1828=interest)
Webster's defines "advantage", in pertinent part, as
"7. Interest; increase; overplus".
Interest refers to a surplus or an "overplus" in antiquated English.
Smith and Rigdon also produced the Joseph Smith Translation (JST) of the Bible. It is in Rigdon's handwriting.
"Wherefore Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED." JST Genesis 14:39. (Emphasis added.)
Therefore without doubt, tithing in Mormon scripture means "one-tenth of their surplus advantage annually" (D&C 119), which means "more than that which they have need" (JST Genesis 14).
III. Official Mormon Policy
What about official Mormon Policy?
On March 19, 1970, the First Presidency sent the following letter to presidents of stakes and missions, bishops of wards, and presidents of branches in answer to the question,
" What is a proper tithe?
" For your guidance in this matter, please be advised that we have uniformly replied that the simplest statement we know of is that statement of the Lord himself that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their INTEREST annually, which is understood to mean income. NO ONE IS JUSTIFIED IN MAKING ANY OTHER STATEMENT THAN THIS. We feel that every member of the Church should be ENTITLED TO MAKE HIS OWN DECISION as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly."
The General Handbook of Instructions quotes from the ate Month="3" Day="19" Year="1970">March 19, 1970ate> letter from the First Presidency as its definition of what is tithed. Here is a portion of the General Handbook of Instructions from that section:
"The simplest statement we know of is the statement of the Lord himself, namely, that the members of the Church should pay ?one-tenth of all their interest annually, which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this.' " (First Presidency letter, 19 Mar. 1970; see also D&C 119:4).
Because the General Handbook of Instructions quotes the 1970 letter from the First Presidency, the 1970 letter remains the official written policy on tithing.
But even the First Presidency statement fails to define "INCOME". Hence, one must look to the scriptures for a definition. They state INTEREST income (D&C 119:4), which means SURPLUS of OVERPLUS income (D&C 119:5) MORE THAN THAT WHICH [THE TITHE PAYER] HAS NEED (Genesis 14:39, JST).
IV. Statements by General Authorities that Support "Surplus"
Apostle James Talmage published a brochure entitled "The Lord's Tenth" It was misquoted by Apostle Jeffrey Holland in a speech he delivered in the October, 2001 General Conference.
Holland's lengthy quotation of Talmage is so riddled with ellipses and square brackets, one wonders what Talmage actually wrote.
I checked.
Holland's "quotation" is not what Talmage meant, particularly regarding the amount to be tithed. Talmage referred to surplus. Holland referred to ten percent. Could Holland's quotation of Talmage cause one to misunderstand Talmage? Perhaps.
The amount to be tithed is and remains one tenth of a person's increase after needs are met. (Genesis 14:39, Joseph Smith Translation, D&C 119:3-5). The First Presidency letter dated ate Month="3" Day="19" Year="1970">March 19, 1970ate> states in part, " We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly." (As cited above.)
Talmage's writing supports current official policy and the two scriptures cited above, but does Holland's quotation of Talmage do the same?
Below is a full text, alternating-paragraph quotation of both Talmage and Holland.
I have highlighted differences with ALL CAPS, and I have set forth enumerated comments. Talmage's text comes from "The Lord's Tenth, Pamphlet, 1968, as cited by Holland.
(1)TALMAGE: "You have need of many things in this world-food, clothing, and shelter for your family AND YOURSELF, the common comforts of life, AND THE THINGS THAT SHALL BE CONDUCIVE TO REFINEMENT, TO DEVELOPMENT, TO RIGHTEOUS ENJOYMENT. YOU DESIRE MATERIAL POSSESSIONS TO USE FOR THE ASSISTANCE OF OTHERS AND THEREBY GAIN GREATER BLESSINGS FOR YOURSELF AND YOURS.
(1)HOLLAND: ?You have need of many things in this world?food, clothing, and shelter for your family ... , the common comforts of life. ...
(1)COMMENT: Holland leaves the individual out: "YOURSELF", and the following needs: "THE THINGS THAT SHALL BE CONDUCIVE TO REFINEMENT, TO DEVELOPMENT, TO RIGHTEOUS ENJOYMENT". In harmony with the above-cited scriptures, Talmage taught these are legitimate needs. But lest Holland give a hint that tithing should be calculated after needs are met, he has dropped these lines. In other words, it appears the Church used to semi-officially (Talmage) clarify the tithing requirement based upon a recognition that personal and other legitimate needs were not to be tithed. Semi-officially (Holland), no more.
(2)TALMAGE: Now, you shall have the means of acquiring these things; but remember they are mine, and I require of you the payment of a rental upon that which I give into your hands. However, your life will not be one of uniform increase IN SUBSTANCE AND POSSESSIONS; YOU WILL HAVE YOUR LOSSES, AS WELL AS YOUR GAIN; YOU WILL HAVE YOUR PERIODS OF TROUBLE AS WELL AS YOUR TIMES OF PEACE. SOME YEARS WILL BE YEARS OF PLENTY UNTO YOU, AND OTHERS WILL BE YEARS OF SCARCITY.
(2)HOLLAND: You shall have the means of acquiring these things; but remember they are mine, and I require of you the payment of a rental upon that which I give into your hands. However, your life will not be one of uniform increase ...
(2)COMMENT: Holland truncates the phrase "increase in substance and possessions" probably because it fleshes out the meaning of an increase, that tithing should be paid after a calculation of "surplus properties" (D&C 119:5).
(3) TALMAGE: AND, NOW, instead of doing as mortal landlords do-require you to CONTRACT WITH THEM to pay in advance, whatever your fortunes or your prospects may be-you shall pay me NOT IN ADVANCE, BUT when you have received; and you shall pay me in accordance with what you receive. If it so be that in one year your income is abundant, then YOU CAN AFFORD TO PAY ME a little more; and if it be so that the next year is one of distress and your income is not what it was, then YOU SHALL PAY ME LESS; AND SHOULD IT BE THAT YOU ARE REDUCED TO THE UTMOST PENURY SO THAT YOU HAVE NOTHING COMING IN, YOU WILL PAY ME NOTHING."
(3) HOLLAND: [so] instead of doing as mortal landlords do?requir[ing] you to ... pay in advance, whatever your fortunes or ... prospects may be?you shall pay me ... [only] when you have received; and you shall pay me in accordance with what you receive. If it so be that in one year your income is abundant, then ... [YOUR 10 PERCENT will be a] little more; and if it be so that the next year is one of distress and your income is not what it was, then ... [YOUR 10 PERCENT will be] less. ... [WHATEVER YOUR CIRCUMSTANCE, THE TITHE WILL BE FAIR.]'
(3)COMMENT:
FIRST, Holland deletes the phrase "not in advance" since that contradicts current declarations to "pay the Lord first" or even as Gordon B. Hinckley suggested to pay even in the face of disaster; the story of the woman who needed to pay her tuition, but paid tithing instead.
SECOND, Holland inserts "YOUR 10 PERCENT" where Talmage clearly did not say "ten percent". Rather, Talmage's statement is in harmony with the First Presidency letter dated March 19, 1970 which states in part, " We feel that every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly."
THIRD, Holland pulls the following "quotation" out of thin air: "whatever your circumstance, the tithe will be fair". The problem is his text in the Ensign makes that statement appear to be paraphrased from Talmage. It is not. And how can a tithe be fair for a destitute individual who is struggling to support themselves and their dependents?
FOURTH, Holland drops the phrase, "you shall pay me nothing." The reason is this would have destroyed impetus of the story he told of the destitute Mary Fielding Smith. Because, to quote Talmage, she was "reduced to the utmost penury so that you have nothing coming in". An anecdote like the Mary Fielding Smith story, even delivered by an apostle at General Conference, carries less authority than scripture, as cited above and less authority than a signed statement of the First Presidency, as cited above.
(4) TALMAGE: Have you ever found a landlord of earth who was willing to make that kind of a contract with you? When I consider the liberality of it all, and the consideration that my Lord has had for me, I feel in my heart that I could scarcely raise my countenance to his heaven above if I tried to defraud him out of that just rental.
(4) HOLLAND: "Have you ever found a landlord on earth who was willing to make that kind of [EQUITABLE] contract with you?" Elder Talmage asks. "When I consider the liberality of it all," he says, "... I feel in my heart that I could scarcely raise my countenance to ... Heaven ... if I tried to defraud [GOD] out of that [WHICH IS RIGHTFULLY HIS]."
(4)COMMENT: Holland's insertion of "EQUITALE", "GOD", and "WHICH IS RIGHTFULLY HIS" may inspire awe and guilt. It also minimizes the thought that one might have an "indifferent" landlord (See Matthew 5:45).
Summary. Talmage meant "pay on your surplus". Did Holland mean "pay ten percent across the board, regardless of your income"?
IV. Back to Elder Robbins' talk.
Robbins appeals to one's sense of shame by equating all who are unwilling to pay tithing with Dicken's infamous, but fictitious character, Scrooge. Robbins next tells the extreme story of the widow of Zarephath, and insists that the "Lord often teaches using extreme circumstances to illustrate a principle".
But do these examples matter if they contradict Mormon scripture and official policy?
No. They are misleading.
Robbins also states that "[n]o bishop, no missionary should ever hesitate or lack the faith to teach the law of tithing to the poor. The sentiment of "They can't afford to" needs to be replaced with "They can't afford not to."
Maybe the principle can be taught, but it cannot contradict Mormon scripture.
Robbins also uses the term "firstfruits" extensively to bolster the notion that the destitute should pay tithing. But this contradicts Mormon scripture and the previous teaching of Apostle Talmage, misquoted by Apostle Holland that "you shall pay me NOT IN ADVANCE" (Talmage as quoted above).
V. To give one one's substance, whether one is rich, poor, or neither, is a sacrifice in fact, but what remains in Mormon scripture and official policy regarding tithing is that
the official interpretation of tithing remains "one-tenth of all their INTEREST annually". "Interest" is a surplus (D&C 119:4-5) of income "more than that which [one] has need." (Genesis 14:39, JST.), and
"every member of the Church should be entitled to make his own decision as to what he thinks he owes the Lord, and to make payment accordingly." (March 19, 1970 letter from the First Presidency, and current official policy).
| Yesterday in the course of my business I was confronted with the real world problems of tithing.
One of my clients recently lost her husband to cancer. She is TBM. He left her with a substantial amount of money. Some 401k benefits. Some life insurance. Close to $ 1,000,000 in total.
Some of it has been tithed as it was earned and taxed. But some is in the form of non-taxable death benefits. The tithing on this would be more than many make in annual wages.
She asked me ( as she does not know of my dissafection) if I thought she should tithe the death benefit money. I said no as I thought she should not, and asked her to consult with her bishop to make a final decision. I do not want to overstep my bounds.
Folks this is a situation that would be detrimental to her. The money that would be tithed would be gone forever. No gain possible on it, and no income to be derived from it.
She is relatively young with three children at home, and two of them are young. She will need every bit of this money if she is to be able to recreate her husbands income of over $ 100,000 per year.
I thought immediately about the shopping mall being built in SLC. It was a moment of realization of the control tscc has over it's members, and the real world consequence of that control.
Now I wait to see what her bishop will say. I can only hope he is not a damn fool.
| | | I Would Like To Bear My Testimony Of The Power Of Not Paying Tithing
Article Archived: Saturday, Nov 19, 2005, at 08:36 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: Garry | | |
This afternoon someone I lent money to two years came over and repaid me. I "lent" it to them because they were having tough times and I never expected it to be paid back. I had actually completely forgotten about it (I am a great person to borrow money from, I always forget LOL). We are about to go on a holiday and really "needed" the money.
Now if I was still TBM there is absolutely no doubt I would have said it was a blessing for paying tithing, absolutely no doubt at all. It just goes to show that you decide what you believe then make everything else fit, not the other way around when you are raised TBM.
I want to make a comment on the "blessings" of paying tithing. I have often thought how often the tithing blessing stories I heard involved a TBM gaining some financial advantage (blessing) of some sort that when you think about it involved someone else losing out by the same amount. I recall recently a friend who sold his house for too much. He claimed it was God helping him but then goes on to say that the guy buying it realised he had paid too much a few days later and my friend would not renegotiate or allow him out of the sale. I don't think he should have let him out necessarily because a contract is a contract but is he saying that God blinded this guy until after the sale or that he inspires stupid people to buy things off tithe payers? Or when people who pay tithing suddenly find $50 lying on the street. Someone else, maybe poorer than them, would have had to lose it.
I have had two pay rises since leaving the church and stopping my tithing and now this. I am so glad I have been able to see the church for what it is. Many of the people are good, dedicated people but the church , its founder, its prophets and its doctrines are a self perpetuating sham.
| | | Encyclopedia Of Mormonism - Misuse Of Tithing Funds
Article Archived: Wednesday, Dec 21, 2005, at 11:12 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: runtu | | |
Some people may be under the impression that the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, published by Macmillan, is an independent and objective look at the doctrines and practices of the church, albeit mostly from LDS authors.
Just so you know, Macmillan allowed the church to vet the content, and church-employed editors at the COB did the copyediting and proofreading.
It was not an independent production. In short, your tithing dollars were donated to Macmillan for commercial purposes.
There, that felt good to get one of my COB secrets off my chest.
Continued:
At the COB, there were always huge walls put up between the for-profit businesses (Zion's Securities, etc.) and the non-profit church (Corp of the President, Corp. of the Presiding Bishopric, Thrasher Fund, etc.).
For example, I worked on a project involving the Joseph Smith Building (formerly the Hotel Utah). I was not allowed to have anything to do with certain parts of the building, such as the restaurant at the top, because those were for-profit concerns, and I was working for the non-profit part of the church.
For the Encyclopedia of Mormonism, not only did those walls come crashing down, but services were provided to Macmillan, an outside publishing firm, but billed as regular non-profit church work.
Again, the encyclopedia mentions the cooperation of the church and BYU, but nowhere does it acknowledge that church funds were used to provide services supporting a for-profit business and publication.
That is the big problem. I am not a tax lawyer, but it seems to me that there was a big problem here.
| | | Selling The "Magick" Of Tithing
Article Archived: Tuesday, Mar 21, 2006, at 06:15 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
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Original Author Of Article: nao crer | | |
I got a call from my mother last night. She was very excited about how they are presenting tithing in her mission. To me, it is disgusting. It is inherently fraudulent.
You give the investigator(ie mark or pigeon) a small bag with 10 pieces of candy in it. You make sure to explain you are giving it to them to use as they see fit. You then ask for one piece back. When they give one to you, you dump a whole bag of candy in their lap, saying that these are God's blessings if you do what he asks and give 10% back to the Lord.
This is wrong and lying on so many levels.
First of all, the money people get is from their own work effort, and some amount of luck (good or bad). To infer that a person's entire means of support is a free gift from God is simply a lie. How did they live before the missionaries showed up at their door? This is one more case of giving God (or the Morg) credit for good things that happen, but if the person then loses their job it is because of their failing, not because of God.
My experience is that if you give the 10%, you have 10% less and life rolls forward. I have never been tremendously blessed because of paying my tithing. I got jobs, changed jobs and moved forward through a tremendous amount of effort. I have watched my mother scrimp and save, and now she is spending her money on a mission. When she returns from the mission she will live with one of my sisters because she does not have savings to buy a decent house. She has talked about giving the balance of her savings to the Morg because she feels guilty for having a little bit from the sale of her house. Where is this "bag full of blessings"? I have never experienced anything like this.
My mother is currently giving lessons to one woman. The woman is on disability because of schizophrenia. My mother says she is better when she takes her meds, but even then she has a lot of problems. They are currently giving the indoctrination on tithing to convince her to give up 10% of the $603 per month that she is trying to live on.
It is really sad to see my mother so deluded by this organization. She will work for the rest of her life for them and be happy doing it. She will never have any value to them, she is just one of the workers that carry the burden for them. Work them hard, tell them that they are not ever quite good enough. Take credit for the good and blame them for the bad.
| I have been lately thinking about the impact tithing has had on my entire family. I suppose it has to do with observing my parents in their retirement, and pondering my own retirement in the future. This time of mid-life seems to encourage introspection, and analyzing our past decisions and how they impact our current life. So bear with me for making this personal.
I joined the church at the age of 19, a year after my older sister and her husband had joined. Within the next two years, due to our proselytizing efforts, my parents and two remaining sisters also joined the church. My parents and one sister remain very active. One of my other sisters, like myself, is an atheist, although she has never bothered to have her name removed from church records, which I have. My other sister is inactive, but very private and doesnt discuss her current beliefs. My inactive sisters and I were all very active for more than a decade of our adult lives, during which time we faithfully paid tithing, like my active sister and parents still do. While I understand that we are all adults who made the choice to pay tithing, albeit under certain false impressions, the decision to pay ten percent of ones income to any entity is one that will have long term impact. So here is the story of how it has impacted my family.
My parents have made a good living throughout their lives, despite coming from practically destitute families in the depression. My parents have been mormon for almost twenty years now, full tithe payers the entire time. My mother was a teacher in the highest paying district in our area, my father was the personnel manager of a clothing manufacturing company. Together, their income not counting my fathers bonuses was probably around 150,000 a year, in an area of the country where that is an upper-middle class income. My father also received hefty bonuses every year in fact, his bonuses sometimes were almost as much as my yearly income as a beginning teacher. Together, my parents tithed probably as much as I made in a year, not counting the extra money they donated for building funds and fast offerings.
My parents live in a nice home in a nice neighborhood. They are both retired. Yet, they are still paying off this house, due to the fact that they kept borrowing on it. Of course, with the expenses of raising four children, a large percentage of their income was not disposable. But what was disposed was ten percent of a very comfortable income, and if that ten percent had, instead, been used to pay on their mortgage and other loans, they would have paid off that house long ago. Instead they look forward to paying a mortgage probably until the day they die.
My oldest sister, the one who is still active, raised four boys, active in the church, along with her husband. He has worked hard all his life, but without a college education, was not able to find jobs that paid good benefits including retirement. She did not go to work until their children were grown, at which time she went into teaching. They have no retirement. If they had put ten percent of their income all these years into a retirement fund instead of into church coffers, they would have a nice retirement nest egg. Instead, they realistically look forward to working until the day they die.
My atheist sister also paid regular tithing when she was active and still married. Her husband unwisely chose to quit the military just four years away from full retirement, and never was able to make a decent income since then. They divorced, partly because he became a full fledged religious nut involved with polygamy. He rarely paid child support and moved out of state. Had they saved ten percent of their income all those years they were active, perhaps she would NOT have been literally left destitute with dependent children after their divorce.
My younger sister was active her entire adult life until a couple of years ago. She is eleven years younger than me, so isnt 40 yet. She went into debt in order to finance her post graduate college education. Despite having always had fairly decent paying jobs (more than I make as a teacher), being single without financial obligations to children, she has never even been able to afford to buy a new car due to the fact that she continues to be drained paying off her college loans. Had she put ten percent of her income towards her college loans instead of tithing, they would be paid off by now.
My story I was married to an irresponsibly self employed man, so that is a factor I must consider in my finances. We always struggled, and he hid money from me. I often had to use my credit card to purchase food and diapers for our three children. Had I used ten percent of my income towards helping my family survive instead of paying tithing, perhaps by the time we divorced I would not have been left with such a huge credit card bill I had to file bankruptcy.
There is nothing to be done about all this it is water under the bridge. We were all adults who chose to write those checks. Yet, we also wrote those checks under false impressions, deliberately fostered by the LDS church. One is that paying a ten percent tithe to the LDS church is a prerequisite to being able to be with your family throughout eternity. Another is that God would open the windows of heaven, and any financial struggle that losing ten percent of your income in tithing would be more than offset by his blessings.
It turned out to be utter bullshit, and I cant help but resent all the money my family has paid the LDS church so they can build fancy hotels monuments to Joseph Smith, and buy malls in Utah.
| | | Tithing Horror Stories - How Did You Suffer From Paying Tithing?
Article Archived: Monday, Dec 18, 2006, at 12:12 PM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
Outside Link To Article: RIGHT CLICK - COPY LINK LOCATION
Original Author Of Article: KimberlyAnn | | |
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints isn't a joy to it's members, it's a leech sucking the life-blood out of hard-working families financially, spiritually, and emotionally. One of the more insidious ways the cult oppresses it's victims is by making tithing mandatory for a temple recommend. No tithing, no temple recommend. No temple recommend, no celestial kingdom. No celestial kingdom, no eternal family. It's a sick religion that CHARGES families to be together in heaven.
Many members suffer terribly in order to pay tithing. We've read the horror stories of hungry people scraping together the last of their money to pay tithing instead of buying food. I lived a life like that many years ago.
When I was first married my husband was in the service and stationed in Coronado California, a little piece of heaven on earth. He was a pitiful Lance Corporal and our paycheck totaled about $1,000. a month, and that included a housing allowance because no military housing was available for us. If you've ever lived in southern California, you know how expensive apartments are. We paid $475. a month for a flea-infested dump in a gang infested neighborhood of San Diego where drive-by shootings were par for the course and I was literally afraid for my life. We had $525. a month left for groceries, gas, car insurance, utilities and tithing. We didn't have a dime to spare.
When we went in for our first tithing settlement together, the Bishop didn't think we'd payed enough tithing - we were paying ten percent of his gross check, but the Bishop felt we needed to calculate the free meals DH ate every day on base and the cost of our health insurance. He said we needed to pay about $150. a month, or 15% of our gross check. My husband, being a convert, said to me after we left the Bish's office that the Bishop was "full of shit". I chastised him and said we'd make the necessary sacrifices to pay our tithing as we should.
I was often hungry after we began paying that extra money in tithing. DH ate on base, so I stopped buying very many groceries. My father came to visit and thought I had anorexia. We were so broke that I took some silver dollars that had been given to me by an uncle and placed in my baby book the day I was born and used them to pay the toll it took to cross the Coronado bridge to pick up my husband from work. We were BROKE! But we paid our tithing. And I feel sick about it now. What an asshole of a Bishop we had - he knew how bad off we were, but he didn't care.
Things eventually got much better for us financially, and I shudder to think of the thousands and thousands of dollars we paid into that cult. Since we've left the church, I've found several of those little yellow tithing slips tucked away written for large sums of money and I feel a surge of anger every time it happens. Hopefully, they're all cleared out by now because I don't want to discover another one.
So, if you have high blood pressure, make sure you've taken your medicine and share your outrage at having been duped out of your hard earned money and how it affected your life.
Not being coerced into paying tithing - another benefit of leaving Joe's cult.
| | | Good Reasons To Pay The Prophet
Article Archived: Monday, Apr 2, 2007, at 07:53 AM
Stored Under Topic: TITHING
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Original Author Of Article: razrsharp | | |
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